Everybody that is currently building a car...

David, what are you going to use for collector size and length on the headers??? I keep waiting for someone to plunk down the big bucks for a set of merge collectors to see if they are actually as good as the claims of the people who make them!!!!! I've used the Flowmaster 4 into 2 into 1 collectors, they were good for 12 horse on the chassis dyno....unfortunately there was enough other variable on the two pulls that I can't really say all the gain was from the collectors..... Torque gain from 3500 to 7000 was significant, too!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

David, what are you going to use for collector size and length on the headers??? I keep waiting for someone to plunk down the big bucks for a set of merge collectors to see if they are actually as good as the claims of the people who make them!!!!! I've used the Flowmaster 4 into 2 into 1 collectors, they were good for 12 horse on the chassis dyno....unfortunately there was enough other variable on the two pulls that I can't really say all the gain was from the collectors..... Torque gain from 3500 to 7000 was significant, too!!!!!

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Dave,

I'm shooting for 36 inches. I'm using a simple 4 into 1 with the collector I believe at 10 inches (3" outlet). Ive read good things about the merge collectors and may consider them in the end. Might as well as much time as I've put into getting these equal length. Any extra HP will be good. :LOL:

I'm wanting to put Holleys new dual mid rise on the LS. I may be going with the port injection and adding a pair of air only TB's. But for now I'm just looking to fire it up with the factory intake. With a different cam (ie Comp Cam) ground to take advantage of the LS head flow rate and much more lift. I'm hoping for 500 HP and to extend the useable rpm range to 7000 rpm. We'll see.

David

I saw (forgot the company) a set of LS7 headers done up as a 3 step primary tube with a 3 1/2" merge collector---with the coating the price comes out to about $850.00!!! That will sure buy a lot of tubes and pay for the TIG time, huh??

Yes it will Dave. I was looking at a set of tight tucks that actually had a nice collector design that was $540 with the coating at Street & Performance. IMO they are the only ones making a nice block hugged style. Another place said they'd make me a set of long tube headers (not equal length.....which is where it is at IMO) for $1200. That's what sold me on the TIG.

David

Seems I always have to build my own headers!!!! Probably because I get a bit carried away on everything I build. Got to have some engine setback (still trying for that 50/50 weight distribution on a street car), different suspension, frame modifications and what have you it seems nothing I ever build has a set of headers made for it that will fit out of the box!!!!

Starting tomorrow I'm going to attack the Plymouth and get it finished, the new radiator finally showed up today! So, while killing a bit of time today I put one of the doors off the '57 on a stand and started on the lightening project for the doors, trying to get at least 15 pounds off each door to stay on track for the "diet" I have the car on!!! Think I can make weight on the doors, they used to have lots of unnecessary stuff inside them that is no longer there!!!!

Oh yeah, brought the front sheetmetal for the 'maro in and put it on a fixture so I can mess with it if the mood strikes!!!!!

Made a set of cross brace jigs yesterday. The old method was to install the sign posts, then try to get a tape measure to the top of a post & measure down to find where the base cross brace would go. Since I install by my self, I would put a large screw at that spot & then guess where level was on the post at the other end of the sign & put a second screw there. I'd then set the 2''x4'' on the screws, with a level on top.Then run the second screw out while holding the 2''x4'' & the level. Then I'd move the board up or down to get it dialed in & run the screw through the board, then run screws in the other posts. That would give me a baseline to work from & I'd use a tape measure to space the rest of the 2''x4''s from bottom to top.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ramingJig3.jpg

Now I can set up a laser level & instantly find level for the bottom 2''x4'' & run a screw through the jig to the post.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ramingJig2.jpg

Then I just stack the 2''x4'' cross braces on the jig, screw them down & remove the jig. DONE.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ramingJig1.jpg

I have every sign size combination I use up to 10' tall. For the rare times I may have a sign taller, I can just do the first 10' & then reposition the jig. This is another one of those deals I have thought about for years.... just didn't do it. It will be another time saver & the framing will be dead on every time. :toocool:


Oh, & I painted them Chevy orange so I don't take them off the post, throw them in the weeds & forget them on the job site. :whacked: :LOL:

On another note, Yesterday I applied for personalized plates for the "Z". I've never had plates on it all these years & I was getting a little nervous that there might be road blocks for waiting so long. So yesterday I went to the DMV & applied, got the name I wanted & all went smooth. I'll wait until I have them in hand before I say what it is. I don't expect any glitches' but this is a government entity I'm dealing with so I'm not going to assume anything until they show up in the mail.

Neat deal Pro!!! When you have to work alone it sure does lead to a lot of "solutions" to tasks that normally require another set of hands, huh???

Holy buckets!!!! You had dealings with the DMV and everything went smoothly as planned???????? Man, mark that one on the calender!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stovebolter

Thanks guys. I'm going to continue on with the mild steel mock ups. If I like how they turn out I might have them coated after welding and grinding or make a set out of stainless using the mild steel mock up as a reference like everyone suggested. I decided to dig deep and spend the coin on a Steer Clear unit. That way I can put the steering shaft just over the frame rail. That'll give me the extra room to make these equal length. Also need to buy a shorty column to give more foot clearance for brake and throttle pedal. Had my mind set on using everything I already had but I just don't want to have to work around all these little pesky problems.

Hi ho, hi ho, off to the shop I go.

David

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OK David, I found you a bender!!:D https://mail.google.com/mail/?tab=wm...56308c92ff435c ;)

Very slick Pro. I like the Chevy orange, too. Can't tell you how many bolts and bits and peices that have just disappeared on me in the grass/dirt!

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Originally Posted by rspears

OK David, I found you a bender!!:D https://mail.google.com/mail/?tab=wm...56308c92ff435c ;)

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Roger,

I'm not seeing it when I go to the link.

David

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stovebolter

Roger,

I'm not seeing it when I go to the link.

David

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Bad link - try this one...tube bending - YouTube

Pro you do get very independent when working alone. When I was building garages and room additions I made props with boat wench straps to stand up walls by my self. At least they don't talk back or stay to long for coffee.LOL

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Very slick Pro. I like the Chevy orange, too. Can't tell you how many bolts and bits and peices that have just disappeared on me in the grass/dirt!

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Yup, it's happened to me on more than one occasion.

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Originally Posted by cffisher

Pro you do get very independent when working alone. When I was building garages and room additions I made props with boat wench straps to stand up walls by my self. At least they don't talk back or stay to long for coffee.LOL

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The older I get the more I appreciate a good jig or specially made tool to make the job easier. I'm kickin' myself for not building some of this stuff years ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rspears

Bad link - try this one...tube bending - YouTube

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Ha ha Roger. I'll take one. Fascinating!

David

How much programing to bend up 8 individual tubes for a set of heades??? and no, not a set of dragster zoomies

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

How much programing to bend up 8 individual tubes for a set of heades??? and no, not a set of dragster zoomies

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Ha ha. Yes, there's quite a few bends in mine but not as many as ive seen. Had a friend with a Monza. He had the equal length but to do it a couple of the primarys ran on the outside of the frame ( slip joints). How is yours set up? Making them equal length takes a lot of time and a lot of material wasted (in my case). I feel fortunate that I figured out a way to keep the crooks and bends to a minimum.

To buy that I'd have to sell the house and arm myself to protect myself from my wife's rage. :D wonder if they'd let me borrow that.

David

I don't worry too much about all 8 pipes being equal length--I actually like to have 2 lengths generally about 4 inches different--the equal length causes too much of a peak at one rpm and takes away an engines ability to run at rpm below or above that rpm--a high banked oval/restrictor plate type application might need to be equal, but it had better be equal at the exact right length, not just equal at 36 inches

I spend more time making sure I can get the spark plugs in/out, valve covers off, full travel suspension and turn radius and exit the car so the pressure/heat doesn't cause aero buffeting, and or exhaust fumes/heat into driver area

Speaking about Monza---did you notice my avator is a Monza???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

I don't worry too much about all 8 pipes being equal length--I actually like to have 2 lengths generally about 4 inches different--the equal length causes too much of a peak at one rpm and takes away an engines ability to run at rpm below or above that rpm--a high banked oval/restrictor plate type application might need to be equal, but it had better be equal at the exact right length, not just equal at 36 inches

I spend more time making sure I can get the spark plugs in/out, valve covers off, full travel suspension and turn radius and exit the car so the pressure/heat doesn't cause aero buffeting, and or exhaust fumes/heat into driver area

Speaking about Monza---did you notice my avator is a Monza???

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Yes I did Jerry. :) Thats why I thought about it. Jeffs Monza was quite the little monster! He ran an 8.93 on bottle at Centerville. This was back 15 years ago. Think the track is 1000' now. Seems like he had a destroked 400....but may have been 383. Cant remember. I just remember my contribution (installed a Pro Shot fogger from my 69 Pro Street PU). Fuel solenoid stuck later though and the rest was history. But it sure was fun to watch it go!!.

Oh....and I remember countless hours removing and reinstalling headers. I absolutely hated the headers on that car!!!!


David

Yrs ago I read a article in Hot Rod that said Don Hardy was designing a swap kit to put in a V6 4.3 into a Chevette.Got me to buy a Busch Grand National 4.3 from Hendrick(sp) at the Drag Racer's auction in Indy when NASCAR ended that program and a rust free Chevette.So once I bought all that,I called Don Hardy's shop to buy the mounts and headers to be told yeah they never finished the kit and just pushed the car out back because it was too hard to mass produce.That Hot Rod jumped the gun on it and drew in the headers and a bunch of other stuff even through they told Hot Rod not to do that.So the shop foreman and me got into a long conversation about the headers they tried to build.He told me the only way to build them for that car was with all slip joints.So it left me with a bunch of money invested and needing to build my own headers.

I don't remember where I got the "U" bends and flanges and pipes,but I think it was from Jegs.Again I don't remember where I got this tip/trick which I thought at that time was pretty slick.If you measure the outside of the pipe,you not truly measuring it's equal length.Because that is more the I.D. of the pipe(s).So the tip/trick is to take fishing bob's that are about the same size as the I.D. of the pipes and drop those into the pipes at 3" spacing on fishing line and measure the length of the line that way getting the true equal length of each pipe.
I do remember I had hrs and hrs invested into those headers tacking and adjusting those.You know how you get involved in a project and lose a sense of time you have been at something??.Well I was tacking by looking away for I guess it was 12 hrs or so.Yepper it was the one time I did a very good job burning my eyes ending up wearing patches on them for 24 hrs.But much younger and in part a learning curve.

Anywho-the tip/trick is use fishing bob's on fish line to measure the I.D.for true equal length pipes.So some might seem foolish,but it did seem to work on this car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1gary

Yrs ago I read a article in Hot Rod that said Don Hardy was designing a swap kit to put in a V6 4.3 into a Chevette.Got me to buy a Busch Grand National 4.3 from Hendrick(sp) at the Drag Racer's auction in Indy when NASCAR ended that program and a rust free Chevette.So once I bought all that,I called Don Hardy's shop to buy the mounts and headers to be told yeah they never finished the kit and just pushed the car out back because it was too hard to mass produce.That Hot Rod jumped the gun on it and drew in the headers and a bunch of other stuff even through they told Hot Rod not to do that.So the shop foreman and me got into a long conversation about the headers they tried to build.He told me the only way to build them for that car was with all slip joints.So it left me with a bunch of money invested and needing to build my own headers.

I don't remember where I got the "U" bends and flanges and pipes,but I think it was from Jegs.Again I don't remember where I got this tip/trick which I thought at that time was pretty slick.If you measure the outside of the pipe,you not truly measuring it's equal length.Because that is more the I.D. of the pipe(s).So the tip/trick is to take fishing bob's that are about the same size as the I.D. of the pipes and drop those into the pipes at 3" spacing on fishing line and measure the length of the line that way getting the true equal length of each pipe.
I do remember I had hrs and hrs invested into those headers tacking and adjusting those.You know how you get involved in a project and lose a sense of time you have been at something??.Well I was tacking by looking away for I guess it was 12 hrs or so.Yepper it was the one time I did a very good job burning my eyes ending up wearing patches on them for 24 hrs.But much younger and in part a learning curve.

Anywho-the tip/trick is use fishing bob's on fish line to measure the I.D.for true equal length pipes.So some might seem foolish,but it did seem to work on this car.

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Great tip Gary! I used a big sea rope (like they use for barges). Bobs would be easier to get in the hole and past the bends.

David

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...medium/035.JPG


http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...edium/0362.JPG



These two give any idea of the room I have to work with. I'm finding the limitations of the IPAD to be a bit discouraging. I'll post some better pics when I get this new camera figured out. These were taken last week.

I've ordered a much shorter column to give even more clearance.


http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...medium/040.JPG


Passenger side will be a breeze compared to drivers side.


David

Got a little more blocking done on the hood. Love those 36" hard blocks.

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...medium/048.JPG


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http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...medium/055.JPG

I'm setting up the 16" fan to run first and the 12's come on if necessary. I noticed I think I need to flip them though.

David

And now you see why I chose to change fuel tanks. Seems like it was 36 gallons. LOLs. Decided I want my bed. This big fella is being pulled in favor of a 64 Mustang EFI tank with Wabro's biggest pump.

David

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...medium/047.JPG

Like I mentioned, changing column in favor of a shorter 28 inch non column shift. But otherwise I liked how it felt with the 3 inch column drop. The seat is out of the rear of a Chrysler Town and Country. Actually fits good but just using it to get an idea of how everything feels. With the shorter column I'll be able to raise the column an inch up and left, so I won't have to change the brake pedal lever. But I don't like the dash. I think I tilted it back to far. It's probably at a 45 degree angle now. A little too much.

David

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...medium/037.JPG

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...edium/0381.JPG

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...edium/0392.JPG

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Dave-if you go to the fishing store,you're going to find sizes that works for common I.D. of the pipes and of course the closer you string those on a fishing line,the more accurate your measurement will be.

I've been struggling with this decision for quite a while now and just wondering what everyone thinks? If I do a chop it'll be a rather subtle change. BTW, I'm reinstalling the factory windshield frame, hinges, and crank out even though I gave the frame to FLH4SPEED over 3 years ago. I think I still have the hinges and everything else with the exception of one thing. I cut ou the factory brace and bracket work for the crank out. :mad: Easynenough fixed, and will add a hidden electric crank option instead. I'll also be lowering the seat a couple inches to give a bit more room under the steering wheel for my legs when sliding into the seat which leaves me with my predicament. It feels like I'm in a cave when I'm in the seat. After lowering the seat I'll have over 10 inches of headspace (i'm almost 6' tall) so I'm not going to hurt anything by taking a couple inches out. Think it will look right?

Ive chopped a couple vehicles and this will be a cinch compared to the 69 Chevy in the 3rd pic. Had to section it in multiple sections. Even dropped the entire windshield frame (allowing use of the factory windshield) and tucked it under the cowl like newer car with the wipers under cowl. It had a full tilt front end.

Never mind the pic of the 69. Link doesn't work. I'll add and edit in a bit.

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...medium/043.JPG

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/...thumbs/36a.jpg


David

I don't think you want to take too much out of that roof unless you're going for the cartoon look. In profile, from the bottom of the window opening to the bottom of the door it's pretty tall looking, so proportion wise it already has somewhat of a chopped look. Now to complicate that chop a bit more. The roof appears, at least in a two dimensional photo, to have a "hump" to the rear of the roof panel, sort of like what some guys go for in a slant chop. The windshield and back glass are already comparatively low profile, so if you went a subtle chop, say 2" the front and back would feel like tank gun slits from the inside. So, suggestion, two inch chop in the front, 3 or so in the back, BUT don't cut either front or back glass. The back window is easy, just jog your cut line under the opening. The front would be a bit more of a challenge to blend the roof panel so it didn't look too short above the opening. It might mean a tweak to the windshield opening of say 1/2 or 3/4" chop to pull off. There...........didn't want to make it too simple for you.:) This would be one of those where an accomplished photo shopper would be handy to know.

Yeah, it could come down a bit, but like Bob said not very much--2" out of the posts would be nice, then either the same or a tad more out of the cab--could go with the level roof look. Some pickups it looks good to match the roof line to the angle of the hood...
Definitely wouldn't want to go mail slot size on it or anything!!!!

I remember on a super gas BBC Vega Mark had a flexible what looked like a tightly wound heavy spring the was used as a flexible intermediate steering shaft that easily snaked pass the headers.I wish I could post some pictures for you,but I have none and maybe someone from here could fill in the blanks in terms for that.I thought it would shake like crazy,but it was straight and normal as anything going.It did make tight spaces easy.

Oh Yeh----On my Prostock Firebird, I used on of those--off a pinto--not a single u joint in the column--in case any one turns there nose up at Pinto---they are also used on some BMW or Mercedes also---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

I don't think you want to take too much out of that roof unless you're going for the cartoon look. In profile, from the bottom of the window opening to the bottom of the door it's pretty tall looking, so proportion wise it already has somewhat of a chopped look. Now to complicate that chop a bit more. The roof appears, at least in a two dimensional photo, to have a "hump" to the rear of the roof panel, sort of like what some guys go for in a slant chop. The windshield and back glass are already comparatively low profile, so if you went a subtle chop, say 2" the front and back would feel like tank gun slits from the inside. So, suggestion, two inch chop in the front, 3 or so in the back, BUT don't cut either front or back glass. The back window is easy, just jog your cut line under the opening. The front would be a bit more of a challenge to blend the roof panel so it didn't look too short above the opening. It might mean a tweak to the windshield opening of say 1/2 or 3/4" chop to pull off. There...........didn't want to make it too simple for you.:) This would be one of those where an accomplished photo shopper would be handy to know.

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I think I'm gathering your thoughts Bob. Funny you mention mail slots because thats definitely what I want to avoid. I think I understand what you guys mean by the tall 2 dimentional height on the cab. You do mean the odd height above the window openings? I noticed that when I first got the truck. There was just something to put it nicely....goofy about the top of the cab. Its a side view that looks odd....correct? Too much metal above the door. Think I should shave the top door rail down some. Then drop the cab to it? Of coarse, that wouldnt be much of a change. Then I could take a very small amount out of the glass area? Or should I just figure out how to section the top dropping it down an inch making a lower profile out of the top itself? I think thats what you mean?

It looks a little odd from the front right now because the windshield frame isnt in it. Makes the windshield look real tall in comparison with the top of the door glass.

Going to take quite a bit of thought to figure out how to level out the top of the cab abit with out messing it up. Hmmm. Bob, you've got my wheels spinning in my head. LOL's.

EDIT: How about leaving the windshield frame out, raising the top of the door frame so the top of the door glass matches the top of the windshield, then chop a couple inches. During the chop I can maintain the entire back glass by cutting around it as you suggested. I think everything evolves around the ammount of metal above the door frame, by raising the door frame (essentially) or leaving the door alone and dropping the top cutting out for the factory door shape? LOL's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1gary

I remember on a super gas BBC Vega Mark had a flexible what looked like a tightly wound heavy spring the was used as a flexible intermediate steering shaft that easily snaked pass the headers.I wish I could post some pictures for you,but I have none and maybe someone from here could fill in the blanks in terms for that.I thought it would shake like crazy,but it was straight and normal as anything going.It did make tight spaces easy.

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With the new column I'm not going to have any trouble at all with header clearance. Itll pop out right above the edge of the frame rail. The only thing I'm not going to like is I have to double up on the joints to stay below the 30 degree minimum, which will place the shaft high above the frame at the cab. Good thing I kept the engine skirts. I do have a vibration dampner at the rack unit. :)

David

Since you're asking for opinions.. regarding the chop.. I wouldn't do more than 3/4"! Just enough to make those that know the body style go HMMmmm.... I like the cab as it sits now, it looks like a pickup! And I agree that your dash angle is too severe!

I'm glad to see you working on this again, I missed watching your work.

You could section it that would solve your roof problems. Take a few inches out of the belt line. If I were you I'd get a few photos and a pair of sissors and tape to see what looks good to you.

For what it's worth - I would leave it just the way it sits. Get it primed, running, licensed and on the road. Then wring out the bugs. If after a season or so you really don't like how it looks, then think about a roof chop. The tops on these are kinda awkward looking but the right paint scheme can also change the appearance.

about 2.5 out of belt

:mad: Sorry, had to bail on you guys yesterday right in the middle of asking you questions. My desktop decided it would have a data dump! And forgot the IPAD at my dads. And my wife had to do school work on hers. And my step daughters computer is junk. Blah blah blah. You get the picture. :mad:

For now I am looking to get it running first like Dave mentioned but was entertaining the idea of correcting the odd look to the cab eventually before I get too far with body work. I think I can collectively make a decision now with everyone's ideas.

Now trying to get this PC going again. Sometimes I really dislike technology. :LOL::LOL:

David

One last thing to finish it off. Every time I am out doing a job (well most of the time Ann E. Weigh), I tell myself I need a tool box for Geves for screws, tools, etc.
I also find myself finishing up jobs in the dark from time to time especially this time of year, so & took care of both problems by fabricating a lighted toolbox. The headlights are actually LED back up lights for a truck, but work perfect for this app. Side makers are LED too so they won't put too much of a strain on the alternator. Pretty bright they are, I replaced the front incandescent side makers on the trailer with the same units & they are definitely brighter. I also have some battery powered magnetic base LED flashers coming to keep in the truck that I can slap on equipment when I'm unloading/loading the trailer.
I have a fuel filter, oil/oil filter & air cleaner change to make & see if I can get the glow plugs to work, then I'm all done with this deal & ready for sign work this spring.
(I'll be trying it out Monday since I have a real estate sign to take down & reinstall on another property).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...T50lights1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...T50lights2.jpg


On the "Z" front, I think I may have Jeff talked into trying my Rossler 210 in his camaro this summer. He's a die hard 6 speeder, but I think he'll be hooked when he sees what a difference a good tranny can do for his E.T.'s.

Good lighting is really important to be able to get the work done!!! Seems as I get older, the light bulbs lose their power!!!!!!