Very Nice!!
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Very Nice!!
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Little bit more to go yet but it's almost done. Made the hangers for the pipes today. 1st pic is my quick made fixture to bend the 1/2 rod that became the hangers. A little lathe work to make them accept the rubber hanging bushings. Still need to clean up the welds etc. http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1df66b0f.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfe7f2288.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps028ea1f1.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfeb7220e.jpg
Oh yeah, I really like that tool. Great work. I just want to add that watching your progress has been motivating me to get mine in the shop as soon as my wife's excursion is done.
really nice work
Ditto all the above nice work, way to stick with it!
The finished exhaust, I think? I'll end up using clamps at the rear of the x-pipe or I'll never be able to remove the system from the truck if I weld it all. I had to run the pipes under the rear end because of limited space between the cross member and axle. The pipes are still above the shock mounts and the pumpkin with enough clearance to lift the truck by the frame. http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps8a14b374.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0e5e4038.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbf9ed924.jpg
Ok here's the next project on this truck, the battery box. Here's a pic of where its going. I'm wondering if I should just have it suspended from the outer frame rail vice both frame rail and inter tube frame. I thinking about frame twist and have some thing break if I box it up with a box. What do you think ?http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...pse620b4d5.jpg
I can't personally envision putting enough twist there to cause trouble, but if It's a concern then just mount to the outer frame and call it good.
What are you thinking for future access (top or bottom), and what type of box? Are you thinking an enclosed (but vented) box or a tray? Your points of support will depend on the stiffness of the box to some degree. One thing to think about is where you're going to run your fuel lines and wiring from front to back. A big solid box in that location is going to eliminate that frame rail as a routing/support point, and your MC mounting plate totally blocks the driver's side rail for front to back support.
I think I'm going to use a small dry cell battery like Odyssey mounted in a weather resistant drop-down box outside the frame rail under the passenger front fender on my 37. There's plenty of room there and it won't interfere with exhaust, fuel lines, master cylinders, etc. plus it will be close to the starter. Even if I had to go with a larger battery, there's still a lot of room under the fender. Just a thought....
The box access will be from the rear, and material can be steel or stainless steel, it will be a box? and vented at the back where a door of sorts will hold the bat in place. If I use stainless for the box than I'll have to bolt it to some kind of brackets welded to the frame.
All my wiring is going inside the frame rail, I thought of the fuel line in there also ( opposite side ) but not to sure about that, it'd have to be rubber all the way to pull it through. The fuel line could also pass just above the box. I plan on using a sealed battery like a optima and laying it on its side.
Speaking of fuel line.
What's best for a hard line running from the tank to the firewall area ? Aluminum, steel, copper ?
I always try to keep the use of rubber fuel line to an absolute minimum. What I'm building depends on the material I use for the line, aluminum line on drag cars and others where weight is a concern, and stainless steel line (with 37 degree single flare and AN fittings, stainless braid hose where necessary). I also never put fuel lines or wiring inside a frame rail, future access and fires being the main concern!
Not to be critical, but looking at those first two pictures above, since you had to put the "dip" in the tail pipes for axle clearance why wouldn't you just go up and over and be done with it, never to worry with it again? Those low points are going to be the first place that rusts through since they will be the collection point for all of the condensation that forms on startup and it won't evaporate away until the whole system gets hot. A pair of mandrel "U's" and some transition bends would be all you need, your support points would all stay the same and you'd never worry about axle to pipe hits.
I recall that Ken Thurm used his frame rails for wiring, and maybe for fuel, too, but he had dedicated tubes welded in for everything along with some access port covers as I recall? Not sure which build it was on, but I remember him jumping some hoops to make it work safely. Sure looked clean on his, but it wasn't as easy as pulling stuff through the frame.
On the battery, do you really want to have to lay down on the ground to connect/disconnect or hook up cables if the need arises? I know it it were mine it would be parked in the mud, or over a puddle any time I needed to check anything. Just an idea....
To me, having the battery under there will be a PITA to do most things with. Unless you can access it from inside the cab easily. Since you have a truck, can you get away with just ahead of the rear axle and access it from a compartment door in the bed floor?
Roger: The reason I went under the rear axle was a clearance issue with the cross member. The pipe won't hit anything at this point even when lifting the truck by the frame. The rearend could hit the cross member if it ever traveled far enough, with a pipe there I'm certain it would hit the pipe ,but than again maybe not. Now I've got to go back and look at it again, I wasn't crazy about going under but it seemed ok when I did it. http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps10683a39.jpg
The battery to me has no other place to go. I could put a trap door in the bed but I just don't like the idea.
I for sure will not put it under the hood. I guess this will require more thinking. Thanks for the thoughts .
Turn those lower shock mount plates around and switch them rt side to lt side and put a new crossmember forward of the rear housing like it has been on all oems-----------then you can move the one you have back toward the fuel tank-------
did you take a look at the 2 mustang cat back systems I referenced?????????
Jerry: Thanks for the input. Yes I looked at the Mustang system. I already had the pipe so I used what I had. My whole trouble with this build is that I do things that come back to haunt me later, ie cross member and shock set up. One of the reasons I put the cross member there was so I'd have enough travel in the shocks. That's the highest point on the frame. All this is just costing me more time and money to go back and fix my mistakes, I need a crystal ball.
Navy,
Catching up with a backlog of monthly magazines earlier, and noted a simple battery mount for one of the small Odyssey batteries, the PC680 using their optional aluminum mounting bracket. It's in the December 2013 Rod & Custom, Page 69 in their Tribute T build - a simple fabricated angle that sits atop the frame, bolted to the outside and extending over the top away from the frame rail. The Odyssey bracket bolts to that plate, with a pair of angle gusset plates picking up the torque load. Looks slick, very simple access. I scanned the page but the color PDF is almost 7MB. If you want it PM me your e-mail address and I'll send it to you. No big deal if you're not interested, it's an open installation not a box, but it's kind of neat.
THANKS Randyr and Roger for the post. Its that kind of post that keeps me going in the right direction, THANKS again !
gordy
I've read this post a half dozen times and felt compelled to say "something".. but what???
First is your concern about some of your choices coming back to haunt you. Things like the tailpipes going under the axle vs. over is im-material in my opinion, as far as collecting condensate at the bottom of the "U" is no different than condensate collecting in front of the "U" when going over the axle... And using what's on hand is the key to hot rodding! "We" are the original recyclers! Being creative and finding uses for things that were never intended go hand in hand with rodders.
Take a step back, breathe deep and realize we all can't be Chip Foose and have a budget like they do. I for one think your doing great work and if I see something terribly un-safe, I know I and everyone here, will not hesitate to say so.
Sometimes our rods, like life, is a series of compromises... will the car ever be done? If you're like me? probably not.. I no sooner get a part of it completed and then am un-happy with something or see something I can "improve"... and there I go again.. my wife says I'm a consumate "tinker-er"..
But, if you're like me, don't let it get you down, use what's on-hand.. use your knowledge.. your doing great work and most of all... consider the replies that are given and decide what works best for you!
Stepping off the soapbox now... sorry for the rant.:HMMM::)
Sooooooooooo-----------I take it that you don't know that the shocks are typicaly mounted on the front side of the axle leaning in and forward???????? this was to not dampen some of the side to side rolling action but to dampen the forward/upward rotating motion of the rear end housing under acceration with leaf springs------------
and when you say that you can raise the truck by the frame without the axle housing touching the pipes---is it hanging by the shocks????????
Post 287 pic of battery---have you considered putting a plate from the lower inside of frame rail over to the tube of the tubing in the center structure??? and then a thinner sheet around the front of that bend to shield the battery area?????????might be a lot simpler that trying to change gravity, earths rotation and global warming---------
No I didn't know about the rotation , NOW I see !
No it's not hanging by the shocks, I was just saying that the pipes won't hit no matter how far the rear travels downward or upward for that matter.
Yes that was my 1st thought. In my 1st post on this subject I was wondering if that might be too much stiffening in the frame if I boxed the area for the battery, or perhaps welds would crack after a while from frame twist ? Thanks for the input.
Thanks for your kind words. I'm not to worried about the pipes rusting out at this point, the money has been spent and they can be fixed when they do. Now that I understand the reason for the shocks being mounted in the front of the axle is different an I'll have to take a good look at that. Yes it seems like I'm never going to get this ride done so every set back seems like a mountain and most likely is just a hill. Thanks for your input.
We all go through the same things on most any build unless it's something really common and you have a big checkbook, those folks just order up the stuff and it all bolts on!!!! Lots of things get done twice, or done once and then modified a bit---main thing to remember, if it was easy everyone would be doing it!!!!!!
Dave's right.. even on the biggest build by any pro, things will change during the build and that's why on the blueprints there's little spaces on the lower right for revision numbers. You can decide for yourself what needs the revision of course.. will the shocks work as installed? sure.. Is Jerry pointing out a better way? Sure, but at what cost and does it outweigh any change? Actually.. if you are going to "play" with shock mounts.. consider staggering. That is one side in front and the other in the rear. Helps to slow down axle wrap. But if your asking opinions, leave it for now is what I'd say. They'll still work, but not as efficient as either of the other choices.
And remember, we can help spend your money of course but it's still in your hands and you get the final say.
That type shock aren't dual action---they pretty much have so much compression/rebound-----when they went to staggered shocks( one forward/one back side of housing) it was pretty much after they went to coil springs, which didn't have the wrap up tendency---
On the exhaust dip collecting water/condensation---drill an 1/8 hole in the bottom of the bend like on the bottom of lots of oem mufflers---
And----------if you are going to change anything here, its this time to do it---not after all the smoothing and painting
and the cost of this change would pretty much just be a few hours of his time to turn those lower mount plates side to side andweld in another cross bar for the top mounts---and do that before cutting out the one that's there now--use it for rigidty while your working then remove if you want----
"........ Is Jerry pointing out a better way? Sure, but at what cost and does it outweigh any change? Actually.. if you are going to "play" with shock mounts.. consider staggering. That is one side in front and the other in the rear. Helps to slow down axle wrap. But if your asking opinions, leave it for now is what I'd say. They'll still work, but not as efficient as either of the other choices......."
I absolutely agree, it's up to you of course but at this point if you are happy with what you have I'd probably leave it until you actually get the truck to the point that it can be driven. As the posts by 34-40 and Jerry point out there have been different approaches and thoughts to shock location over the years. One of the reason for this is is that there is not really a one size fits all ........what may be optimum on one vehicle my be either too much or too little on another based on size, weight, horse power and space limitations.
When I finally get back to my 37 Dodge (something I've been procrastinating on) my next step will be to hang the rear end and redo the springs. My thinking right now is modifying the spring pack I'll be using to a Mopar "super stock" type style, staggered shocks and Cal-Track type bars. Will it all fit the way I envision it, possibly but I won't know till I start building stuff. Will it be enough hook up and go straight.......I think it will but I won't know until the truck goes down the road. If it doesn't I'll try something else. Would I use this if I was building a truck like yours......probably not based on the differences of our drive trains vehicle weight differences.
As I said it all basically boils down to the individual vehicle and how it's used and what you have on hand.......sometimes good enough is more than adequate.
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Wow Thanks for all the support on this project. Some things I'll change. This gets to be mentally tormenting sometimes with no blueprint to go by. Here's a few picks of some work I did with blueprints, and yes this is a flyer. http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1bba7fba.jpghttp://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps20155cc0.jpghttp://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa4735df3.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf4a33860.jpg
Now back to the hotrod .
now we 're getting somewhere-------did I ever tell you guys I used to fly airplanes????even tail draggers
Very awesome airplane build!!!
do you know when they started using them staggered???
Ok I'm looking at a new shock cross member. Here's some material that I have on hand. The 2.5 x 2.5 seems like over kill for sure. The 1.5 x 1.5 x .125" might be to weak for the 40" span ? What do you guys think ? Maybe I should just go buy a new 2 x 3" as is the 1st one I made ?http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd9a418d5.jpg
What do you think ? THANKS FOR YOUR INPUTS !
I think the move to stagger rear shocks came with the mid 60- early/mid 70s on the mustangs and then the Camaro /novas that were track raced with the boss302 and sbc 302 in that road racing era of the small block muscle cars---spread to the bigger engine mustangs and others---later Ford even went to 4 shocks on the rear of mustangs--don't know what year off top of my head but they had two shocks normal location and two more above axle length wise with otter frame rail---------
Navy---try a spruce 2 x 4!!!!!!!!!whats your deal with the plane??????
Jerry 2 x 4 aircraft quality spruce cost more than steel !
The plane is a French 1917 Spad XIII . Took 4 years to build. All built from raw materials except the engine and the lower fuel tank. Myself and 3 others worked on it. I did the wings, sheet metal and the pluming, oil, water, fuel and air pressure lines which were a nightmare. No detail was to small. My boss had the Original French plans translated to English, all measurements were metric. This was built for a collector in Calif.. There was so much more to it than can be described, ie: shutters over the radiator controlled by the pilot as he watched the temp. no thermostat in the 700 cid v-8 with a gear box reduction at the prop. 2 Vickers machine guns mounted on the top of the cowl.
The french pilots must have been small because I couldn't get in the cockpit, no leg room. Got tons of pic's if you want to see them.
Back to the Hotrod.
You posted pictures of the Spad earlier in another thread didn't you? Sure seems like I had seen it before, and I recall the fantastic wood work in it, and the details in the construction. Beautiful!!