41 Willys Gasser project

Roger----I went back and read the article again and again-----My opinion of it has changed--however its to more negative---The article is more a sales flyer than engineering paper and is full of not only incorrect but poorly stated ----------It mixes use of terms and is far off base as far as topics---1000 lbs torque to stop a wheel?????????// 10 inch DIAMETER? and then using RADIUS?? The person who wrote it doesn't have a very good base of knowledge or experience and would not get a passing grade on the way the paper is written---too many basic mistakes---good thing they had spell check or probably would be mispelled words also-----

And as far Competition Engineering----------they have one item come up on a search and its for an adjustable link for the rear sway bar on a Ford Lightening truck to help correct straight line acceration sorta like I mentioned about Steves bar(tube)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Anti roll bars are a cover up for a suspension system that has short comings in certain areas of travel --------

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Sorry, Jerry, I don't buy that at all. An anti-roll bar is as much a part of the suspension system as a shock absorber, a spring, a hairpin or an A-arm - not a cover-up. Anti-roll bars have a specific purpose long recognized as a vital part of a good suspension system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Any suspension component must transfer/resist/anchor a unwanted force and to do so will be detrimental to the vehicle in its primary function-----------

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I agree that a suspension component must transfer/resist/anchor a force (or a moment). However, I really don't understand your characterization of "detrimental." The primary purpose of most of our vehicles is to provide proper ride comfort (a property unique to each of us), and acceptable performance in straight line, cornering, acceleration and deceleration. Proper transfer of the forces you described will actually enhance the that primary function.

If you meant that enhancing a part of the primary function, such as cornering, another part might be affected, I agree with that.

By the way, I did not find the Hotchkis article to be a masterpiece, but other than the typo substituting "diameter" for "radius," it is factually correct. Also, I wasn't concerned about the 1,000 lbs-ft torque on the wheel. It's just an example with round numbers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Thanks for the chart Jack! Been wondering how to figure the rating of a hollow bar vs. solid. Not near as much difference as I figured there would be!

Great work as always, Steve! Hope your cylinder heads arrive soon, waiting eagerly for the maiden blast on the car!!!!!!

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Thanks Dave, I can't wait either, its so close I can taste it !!!

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Welllllllllll--later today/evening I will go back and try to get back into my thought progress that I was in while I was drinking my coffee---now that I am in the ice tea portion of the day I have other things to think about----

But, do you agree that the article was more a sales flyer than an engineering thesis???????????????/

Finished the blades last night.


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps2aeb6b2f.jpg

Just to throw another spanner in the works guys but all our touring race cars use moly tube ARB's, they corner quite hard.


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Steve----what is the wall thickness of the tubing your using??????????Sorry to create controversy??

I was reading some of your posts about liking the 60s machinery-------so do I, except my Pratt & Whitney lathe is supposedly off an early 40s boat----I've got 3 bridgeport mills plus an Index mill, 20 inch bandsaw(new in 1970) 2 Lincoln tig(one new one old) an Linde heli arc that was owned by a company that built stuff for the space program(some of the stuff they left on moon was welded with this machine)

Steve you always make this look fast and simple. In stainless no less! I'm with Dave can't wait to see the maiden launching of the Gumpmobile!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Steve----what is the wall thickness of the tubing your using??????????Sorry to create controversy??

I was reading some of your posts about liking the 60s machinery-------so do I, except my Pratt & Whitney lathe is supposedly off an early 40s boat----I've got 3 bridgeport mills plus an Index mill, 20 inch bandsaw(new in 1970) 2 Lincoln tig(one new one old) an Linde heli arc that was owned by a company that built stuff for the space program(some of the stuff they left on moon was welded with this machine)

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Jerry thats top secret information ;) Or in other words I can't remember :LOL: I think its .90" but I will check and let you know, Its what Andy Robinson Racecars use for their ARB's

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

But, do you agree that the article was more a sales flyer than an engineering thesis???????????????/

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Jerry,
I don't see where anyone but you has held the Hotchkiss information to be any type of engineering thesis or analysis?? I simply pointed out that in that information they referenced that several of the OEM's are now using hollow ARB's as a regular part of their design process, allowing them to tune the suspension by simply increasing or decreasing the wall thickness of the tubing. Porsche was one cited, and I find it difficult to imagine that the suspension engineers at Porsche are concerning themselves with pennies saved, nor that they're focused on straight line acceleration. It's purely up to you, but I don't see any need to further pollute Steve's build thread with more discussion of tubular ARB's. Seems that they are widely used in the racing world, as well as in production design, and only a few of us fossils didn't know about it. I, for one, appreciate being set straight and learning something new.

Steve, I really like the final finish on the end pieces. Great work!!

Steve, I like the hex in your link. I wish my drag link had one. It's not easy to firm up lock nuts on various types of bars without them.

I'm sorry Steve but I'm receiving flak about discussing your anti roll bar---

But---------you did use a right and a left handed heim joint????????????/

What welding rod do you use to weld stainless to 4130 and do you purge the inside of the tube??????????


I'm assuming that the tube is either .083 at .8129 lbs per feet or .095 at .9182 lbs per ft------------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Steve, I like the hex in your link. I wish my drag link had one. It's not easy to firm up lock nuts on various types of bars without them.

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Jack that one is machined into it as it was hex bar but on a round tube i just drill out a nut and drill a hole in one flat and plug weld it in place.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

I'm sorry Steve but I'm receiving flak about discussing your anti roll bar---

But---------you did use a right and a left handed heim joint????????????/

What welding rod do you use to weld stainless to 4130 and do you purge the inside of the tube??????????


I'm assuming that the tube is either .083 at .8129 lbs per feet or .095 at .9182 lbs per ft------------

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Jerry its .95, I'm not welding stainless to the moly, the blades are moly too. I use A15 rod which I think is the same as your ER70 ? Yes the joints are RH & LH, wouldn't be adjustable in situ otherwise.

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Steve----when I order tubing the prices come down as the number of feet go up so I'm always adding stainless for brake and fuel lines and lengths of tubing that have a od/wall thickness combo to result in a standard tap size id for threading---I think 1/2 .083 results in tap size for 3/8??????????????anyway, don't know what the availability and sizes available over there but there are 2 or 3 big suppliers right near here and they are always ready to talk to racers!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/Porsc...ng2008-MF2.jpg

so if this worked---where's the ARB?

Gosh, Jerry, I can't find one. Of course I couldn't find one on this either. :rolleyes:

Attachment 58195

With that, I'm done with this discussion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Steve----when I order tubing the prices come down as the number of feet go up so I'm always adding stainless for brake and fuel lines and lengths of tubing that have a od/wall thickness combo to result in a standard tap size id for threading---I think 1/2 .083 results in tap size for 3/8??????????????anyway, don't know what the availability and sizes available over there but there are 2 or 3 big suppliers right near here and they are always ready to talk to racers!!!!!!!!!!

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I never tap directly in to tube Jerry, I was taught to always weld in threaded bungs, Unfortunately I don't use enough Moly to buy in bulk.

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Steve--I agree with the welded bungs in the end of tubes for the healthier links----I do the directly threaded tube fo things like throttle linkages(your carb pics reminded me), goKart steering links, clutch/brake--------probably nothing bigger than 1/2 od

Jack---------------PETA will be after you because of the dangerous things your doing to those birds habitat around the landing strip------------------

Jerry, if this is the Peta hit squad, I guess I'll just have to deal with it.

Attachment 58198

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Steve--I agree with the welded bungs in the end of tubes for the healthier links----I do the directly threaded tube fo things like throttle linkages(your carb pics reminded me), goKart steering links, clutch/brake--------probably nothing bigger than 1/2 od

Jack---------------PETA will be after you because of the dangerous things your doing to those birds habitat around the landing strip------------------

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Yes with you on the small stuff, anything above 3/8" gets threaded bungs or anything important.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by stovens

Steve you always make this look fast and simple. In stainless no less! I'm with Dave can't wait to see the maiden launching of the Gumpmobile!

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The blades aren't stainless Steve, they are flat chrome moly.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by roadster32

......anything above 3/8" gets threaded bungs or anything important.

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....can't think of much that's not "important" enough, Steve. Too many things become "safety issues" only after the incident.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rspears

....can't think of much that's not "important" enough, Steve. Too many things become "safety issues" only after the incident.

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Roger I think you have to use your noddle a bit really, virtually everything i do in tube gets inserts but things like thottle linkages get directly tapped just as long as the wall thickness is sufficient.

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Well it appears the bad luck fairy has struck Got a message saying my heads were gonna be ready next week so got the machined block out of storage and thought I would put the short motor together, I had previously done all the machine work including hot tanking the block, crack testing, drilling out the oilways, drilling larger oil returns, over boring, doweling the main caps etc etc, basically a shitload of work

It had been stored in my lockup in a sealed bag to keep it clean, Jason came round to help me get it on the engine stand, we rolled it over and Jason said "whats that line for ?" I looked and it wasn't a line but a hairline crack about 1" up from the pan rail, its so fine its extremely difficult to see but it makes the block scrap

Had a cup of tea and decided to go get the spare block from the lockup and strip it out and take it to be hot tanked before starting the maching all over again. Jason kindly helped me strip it and get back into the car so I could take it in the morning. We checked for cracks and found nothing

You ain't gonna believe this , Got to the engine shop and asked it to be hot tanked first, Peter the owner looks inside and says "this one is ok"
About an hour later Peter rang me to say he had checked the progress of the block in the tank and now it looked like it also had a crack in the same place
I drove back and sure enough it had a hairline crack bugger !!!

Luckily my mate Shaun (rockit) has a spare 500 block and is gonna lend it to me and I can replace as soon as I locate a good one, I just need to get from Preston to Watford


Its baffled me how these cracks could appear even after checking, 3 different people have looked at this block and nobody noticed it anybody got any ideas ???

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Steve,
You say "...1" up from the pan rail", but in what area around the bottom of the block? It's a shame to have invested the machining work on the first one, thinking it was ready to go, but then to find a second one failed is a double slap! Sorry to hear it.

that.s no fun :( but nothing gets past a wet mag less you do not mag that spot .i would bet them blocks were in service for some time with them cracks . i understand not wanting a block with a crack but i fixed many were guys let them freeze or blow threw the deck when a gasket fails were there $3000. blocks you just do not throw them out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rspears

Steve,
You say "...1" up from the pan rail", but in what area around the bottom of the block? It's a shame to have invested the machining work on the first one, thinking it was ready to go, but then to find a second one failed is a double slap! Sorry to hear it.

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Roger its 1" up from the pan rail on the dipstick side, basically the bottom of the water jacket

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Seems there ought to be a viable repair method.... What about something like Moroso Ceramic Sealer? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-35500

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rspears

Seems there ought to be a viable repair method.... What about something like Moroso Ceramic Sealer? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-35500

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yep but not with that stuff is a band aid . i have 1000hp + engine weld them and pin them all the time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

that.s no fun :( but nothing gets past a wet mag less you do not mag that spot .i would bet them blocks were in service for some time with them cracks . i understand not wanting a block with a crack but i fixed many were guys let them freeze or blow threw the deck when a gasket fails were there $3000. blocks you just do not throw them out

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Thats interesting Pat, over the years i've welded a few street blocks but was loathe to do this one as its gonna get leaned on hard.

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Well last couple of evenings i've been making something i've thought about for ages so while I have a bit of time while waiting for another block to arrive I got on with it.
I've always liked the look of Blower restraints so decded to get one, I was gobsmacked how much they were for a good one $450 plus, I don't actually need one so thought lets make one.

Heres the look I was after



http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps422b7e69.jpg



Don't look that hard to make :)



http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps2dca33f7.jpg




I didn't have any plate wide enough so went with 6" wide 1/4" stainless and made the strap ears seperatly, first job was to cut slots in the ears for the belts.



http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps420ffa75.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...psf41f1e7f.jpg




Next job was to mark out the main plate and drill the mounting holes, plasma out the squares and weld the belt ears



http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...psc1894181.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps37da4552.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...pse1c7f723.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps6345f525.jpg



I was going to make the straps out of ratchet strap material but couldn't find the flame proof covers so ended up buying some proper straps that came with the covering, not really that expensive.

Next up I plasma cut the anchoring plates in 3/16 BMS, luckily I had a friend nearby with a restraint on his blower so popped in and copied the rough shape. Found some 3/8" tube for the release pins so welded them on.



http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps8faf8af2.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ps2dd3a660.jpg



I have a box of old pip pins and as luck would have it there were 4 x 3/8" in it which were perfect length.



http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...psddaf76f9.jpg




Can't make my mind up to either polish the stainless or black powdercoat it, Total cost ended up less than $100 :D

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Polish. It's like free bling.

That's cool! Yeah, I'd polish. It'll look better in the "Installed" pictures you post next!!

Are you planning on racing this ????????????//

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Are you planning on racing this ????????????//

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Yes Jerry, We have a new series called the Gasser Circus here

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rspears

That's cool! Yeah, I'd polish. It'll look better in the "Installed" pictures you post next!!

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I will eventually when I get the block, It will be a systems go to get it done.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by firebird77clone

Polish. It's like free bling.

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Your not wrong there :LOL::LOL::LOL:

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Does your class rules require it????? if so there might be SFI requirement--------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Does your class rules require it????? if so there might be SFI requirement--------

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Jerry I knew what your reply was gonna say :LOL:
No mate I don't need one, there is no SFI requirement in our class either, I did hear though that NHRA in the US now specify them.