Randy Happy Holidays and hope soon to be needing some info from you on my coupe . Be carefull have a great time and always drink at home .
Randy Happy Holidays and hope soon to be needing some info from you on my coupe . Be carefull have a great time and always drink at home .
Hi Randy (and all others here)
It has been a while - November 14 or thereabouts since we picked up this thread.
Have a great Christmas:D and we'll get this thread going again in the new year and we can hash over what we're doing.
Man how time flys! I'm back to work since 12/1/08, it's good to have a job too! Also good to have new friends like ya'll !! Here's hoping that you all have the best of holidays and we'll pick it up again in "09"...Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
Oh, I just wanted to be post # 444! Hee Hee.... :LOL::LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Geez guys, another month has passed! Yikes! Anyway, here's an update: after spending 3 wks in OK & AZ over the holidays (trust me, it wasn't all vacation! Much the time was spent doing a remodel on a rental property for my mom.) I'm back in CA and making some headway in getting my new expanded garage space into a workable shop area. I'm stoked about having room to work!!
Next order of business will be to raise the body up to install new mounting pads and undercoat the new floors. While I have it lifted, I hope to fabricate the exhaust system. It'll be much easier to do it from the top than from underneath. I need to figure out what kind of stands I'm going to set the body on that won't take up too much space and give me room to work. I'll probably have to leave the body suspended above the chassis during this process. I might be able to roll the chassis to the other side of the garage for a few days but not sure yet. When my dad & I removed the body years ago, we jacked the body high enough to slide 4x4 runners at the front, middle and rear, then jacked it high enough to put barrels under each end of the runners. That gave clearance to roll the chassis out from under the body. I don't have room for barrels this time so if you have any suggestions I'd be grateful.
Once I get this part done, then I'll proceed to have the body media blasted and get on with the body work. And to think this all started because I wanted to replace the radiator!! LOL! One thing leads to 10,000 more!
Hope you guys are all well! I check the site everyday so I'm keeping up with whatever progress you post.
Stay warm. We had a cold snap here that brought the temps down to 48 degrees last night!!! LOL! Don't worry about the sympathy cards....I'm sure you've had your own weather drama....LOL!
Later,
Randy
Here's a question.....how much do you think the 37 tudor humpback body weighs? It is just the shell with the doors, no windows, interior, deck lid etc. I'm asking because I may try to hang it from the rafters while I do the work underneath if it doesn't weigh too much. Any thoughts?
Thanks...
Hi Randy - saw your first msg yesterday but for whatever reason the site has been down every time I've tried to respond. Oh well, nothin' new for here - but most of us just live with the problem.
Sorry about your 'cold snap':whacked:
Sounds like you had less then an exciting "vacation" with hammer in hand.
That new garage space must be a godsend after the single car garage - don't forget that old Jr high axiom about vacuums and nature abhorring them. An empty garage is exactly the same and will fill with treasures you never knew you owned or ever thought wanted:eek:
My progress has been more then tempered by the weather. I have two propane heaters now but when the temp is hovering in the negative digits to <20, they don't make a lot of headway. Then there is the precipitation. Since Thanksgiving, we have had a major ice storm and snow once or twice a week, including yesterday's 5-6 inches the 2 hours of freezing rain. It took over 2.5 hours to clear the drive.
Back to your question on the body weight - my guess would be in the 1000 pound range. My roadster as shipped was about 400. My '31 Slant windshield, empty body, with doors, no glass or roof wood was ~700 (4 of us put it on my truck).
What I would do is build a reinforcing frame across the rafters out of 2x4 or 2x6x10'/12' timbers doubled up to spread the load then use a lolly column as close to the car for the actual weight bearing members. Then wrap your chainfall hanger(s)-mine are 3/8" case chain. I have some long construction jacks that are used - and they are really just HD lolly columns. Depending on how the rafters run, you might have to make 2 sets - then 2x4's will work fine.
This is how I did mine - can't really see much, but I have the reinforcing in my rafters:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...Going-on-1.jpg
My rafters are 2x12" on 16" centers spanning about 20'. They run parallel to the car. I spoke to another friend this morning who suggested bolting a 2x4 steel tube to one wall, run it through the front part of the rear windows and support the other end with a post. He said the body balanced perfectly but he supported the ends with some other stands. Here's a pic of what he meant: Of course, you know that by taking the body off I open myself up to all kinds of other modifications that I might now deem necessary.....LOL! Yikes!Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
Ok, so since the body is now going to come off, there are other things I might want to consider.....like switching from the C4 trans to an AOD, 4R70W, or maybe even a T-5. I've found some info on modifying the x-member to fit the AOD but I don't know about the 4R70W or the T-5. Of course if I go with a T-5 I'll have to come up with a clutch pedal plus a few other things. You guys have any thoughts on these options for the 35-40 frame?
Randy,
I think you can forget the 4R70W - it's a 4.6/5.4 modular and electronic control trans. The AODE and the E4OD are as well and also for the modulars. This leads you to the AOD or the 4/5 speed trannys. As far as a manual in your part of the world - and the traffic - all I can feel is your future left leg pain:CRY:. Then there is the bell housing, clutch, pressure plate, pedal linkage or hydraulics, the new drive shaft..........
Take a look here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C6_transmission#E4OD.
Hi Guys! We're back!! WooHoo! :LOL: , Like Dave, between fighting the snow and the cold I've made no real progress to speak of. :CRY::CRY:Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Also like Dave (almost) I rigged my garage to hoist the body straight up. I crafted a subframe inside the body to pull from and added 2 4X4's to the joists above and with some rope and pulleys I can hoist the body with just a come-along all by myself. I'll see if I took any pics but I don't remember any.
I've decided to purchase a Rootlied hood and also going with the steel inner fenders, mostly to get that clean fit. More costly but a much better fit with cleaner lines I think.
Hey Dave, I thought I'd post our last 2 email conversations that occurred while the site was down just in case anybody else is following the whims of our car building....LOL! Hope you don't mind.
I wrote this to Dave:
Hey Dave,
Since CHR still isn't working, I would appreciate your thoughts on my latest brainstorm. As you know, I'm going to take the body off now which means I need to seriously consider some type of overdrive transmission if I ever hope to get any kind of gas mileage out of this engine. The obvious choice is a post '88 AOD but after talking with the guy who designed my cam, he said an AOD would work fine but thought it would really be cool to put a T-5 in there. I gotta admit I'm a bit intrigued by the idea. I've been reading lots of info about the T-5, which years are better, etc and I think the biggest hurdle would be putting a clutch pedal back in there and adapting it to work the cable clutch. I've located a clutch & brake pedal mechanism from a 36 ford that I can get for $40 but can the pre-39 pedals be adapted to late model master cylinder since they didn't have hydraulic brakes on the earlier models? I've learned that I can swap the tailhousing from a Chevy S-10 T5 onto the Mustang T5 and move the shifter forward to approximately the original position in my car. I don't think the x-member would require any additional mods other than redrilling the mounting holes from the C4. I'm thinking the swap would cost about the same as a rebuilt AOD. I can sell my rebuilt C4 w/Lokar shifter and recoupe most of the cost.
Anyway, tell me why I should or shouldn't do this.....LOL! I know that with the AOD I'll have to trim a little more out of the x-member and rebrace it a bit but Bob Drake did it to their 35 project so I know it's doable. Anyway, as always, I appreciate your thoughts and opinions.
Talk when you can...
Randy
Dave responded with this:
Hi Randy - heluva thing to have to resort to regular ol' emails to yak back and forth ....and CHR is STILL down this morning at 0904EST.
First of all, I did a bit of an answer to your question on the trans changes on CHR about midnight Friday evening - so hopefully I wont contradict
myself.
While I really like the idea of a T-5, that's almost more work at this point then I would like to even consider. The '36 mechanism, while they can be modified for hydraulics with an adapter would probably IMHO, not be the best way to go - unless you could convert it to hydraulics. There are new brackets offered by Chassis Engineering as well as TCI and more vendors that would be a better choice - they aren't over 70 years old and worn out. McLeod offers a hydraulic throwout bearing assembly that you could probably
make work, but if you have a power brake booster you quickly run out of under floor room with a second hydraulic cylinder,
exhaust, cross members and brake bits and pieces like master cylinders, lines, resid valves and whatever else that might be stuffed in that tight area. If you stick with a mechanical linkage, you need balance bars and various links, usually bolted to the engine - and not all SB Fords have the bolt holes just waiting for that assembly. A cable operated system - lots of under dash mods that might not be easy uless you are going to approach this car rebuild as a complete makeover
Then there is the typical S. California daily expressway parking lots and that quivering left clutch leg!!
The AOD is probably the best way, again, my opinion, to update the driveline without spending an inordinate amount of time or, maybe more important, money - as long as it has the better and hardened parts for a modified engine. The Lokar shifter can be converted to the AOD with different brackets - I talked to Lokar a while back when I considered going the same way.
Later,
Dave
To further update my transmission quest, the research continues and my decision is not yet made......how's that for ambiguous? LOL Will give a full report before long.....hopefully
Bobby, what engine & trans are you putting in your 37?
Sounds to me like a positive "maybe"!!!:LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Randy, let's see if this works.. turns out I do have a pic of the body after I had hoisted it off. It shows some of the framing and you can pick out the rope & pulleys with the come along at the back. The rope ends connect to a spreader bar on one side and the come along on the other. Worked great for me. Hoisted the body by myself and it was slow and easy going!
Hey Mike,
Thanks for the pics. I'll probably blend all you guys methods together to lift this body up. Some great ideas.
Hope you're feeling better!
Randy
Randy, that's how I came up with that "rig". Alot of ideas melded together.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Thanks for asking, re; my health. I get asked so often on that topic now, when people say "how do you feel?" I now respond, "With my HANDS!":3dSMILE::3dSMILE:
We're looking forward to your decision and how you raise that body off!
Mike
Well, I hope your "hands" are getting a lot of action then!!!! ;);) :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Along with how I get the body off will be the decision for what trans I end up with......still muddling thru the options on that one but gotta say I haven't ruled out the T5 yet.....
While I think it would be kewl to "row the manual trans through the gears", it's gonna be a lot of work. With enough cutting and welding you can make anything fit. Just where do you want to draw the line??? Personally, I'd go for the auto over drive and be happy. Maybe after a few years you'll get the bug again and "re-do" the car again. That's what always happens to me! They just never seem to be finished in my mind! I want to always "make it better"!!!:LOL:**):whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Glad to see you back here and posting. Missed your posts over the last few weeks/months.
Mike
Randy a pedal assembly from a 94 to 98 Mustang will take care of your woes on the cable clutch . Very small mounting assembly that takes up hardly any room at all . Here is a pic of said assembly inside the Model A great fit for this small area also .
http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/22...425x425Q85.jpg
Hey Bobby, thanks for the pic. Those Mustang pedals might be ok but I'm not willing to poke a hole in my new firewall for a master cylinder. Whatever I do will have to be under the floor or under the dash. What drive train are you going to put in your car?Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang67
Good to hear from you.
Randy
SBF with a T-5 the shape of the firewall has me thinking on the master cylinder also . I will cut and shape it though to get it to work . They do have the right angle master pedal sets hydraulic clutch which will work too .
With the floor pedals some type of bell crank could be made easy enough if you want to keep the pedals there and use a cable . I am just trying what I hope may be easy application with hanging pedals..
Yeah, another Ford in a Ford!! If you're cutting the orignial firewall, you can hang a master cylinder on it. My old setup was that way with the C4 before I started this rebuild. We trimmed the old firewall enough to fit the 302 in there and left the rest in tact. I was running a Pinto MC without a power booster hooked to a brake pedal that was fashioned from some unknown Ford from the 70's or 80's. But with the rebuild, I've put in a new big block firewall for more clearance and a cleaner look. I'm trying to keep from putting things on it or through it. That big firewall also has a wider hump in the middle which limits gas pedal & brake pedal space when using the under the floor methods. I had to bend the brake pedal toward the outside of the car to make space for gas pedal. Thus, trying to configure a clutch pedal under there with it seems impossible if I also want the exhaust pipe on that side too. I'm studying the 90 degee under dash units now to see if there's something that will work with the space I have. If it doesn't, I can always revert back to my AOD plans. My x-member is already modified for the C4. That modification should also accomodate the T-5 by redrilling the holes for the mount. The AOD would require more trimming of the x-member.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang67
I've been studying the T-5 threads on HAMB and various Mustang sites and they say you can move the T-5 shifter forward several inches on the Mustang T-5 by using the tailhousing from 83-93 chevy S-10. They also say 90-95 Mustang V8 T-5's have a higher torque rating. The 94-95 has a bit longer input shaft which requires you to use the 94-95 bellhousing with it but the overall length is supposed to be the same.
The 90 degree underdash units all have hydraulic clutches. I've found several links to change the T-5 to hydraulic clutch by simply adding a slave cylinder to the clutch fork. If you want links to any of this stuff let me know....I haven't bought anything yet but I'm doing lots of reading....LOL!
I've been studying the T-5 threads on HAMB and various Mustang sites and they say you can move the T-5 shifter forward several inches on the Mustang T-5 by using the tailhousing from 83-93 chevy S-10. They also say 90-95 Mustang V8 T-5's have a higher torque rating. The 94-95 has a bit longer input shaft which requires you to use the 94-95 bellhousing with it but the overall length is supposed to be the same.
Easy transfer on the trans tail shaft . If you seen the links from the H then you know of the speedo gear adaption you need to make . I did it to put it in the Model A , with the looks of the area in the 37 the original tail shaft may work from the WC T-5 which is the higher torque trans . The T-5 is a good street car trans but not for racing . Here is a pic where it ended up in the A with the S10 tail shaft . It is just in front of the seats by a few inches which is enough with the right shifter . If you want to know the exact measurement I can do that for you . I really think a stock T-5 will be just fine in the 37 with the eye ball room I see. . There is a lot of leg room in the 37 versus the 31 frame and body .
Ok fellas, I made a decision.....I'm going with the T5. In fact I bought one this week. It's freshly rebuilt by a reputable shop (have receipt), came with brand new clutch, new pressure plate, new flywheel and new Hurst billet short throw shifter, plus throwout bearing & pilot beariing. It was a package deal from a guy who put it together for his V8 Pinto but he sold the car before he got this installed. All I need are the pedals and a slave cylinder. I posted my C4 on Craigslist & and sold it in an hour. A guy is coming to buy my Lokar C4 shifter in the morning so it's been pretty smooth transistioning so far. Of course, I don't have it installed in the car yet either....LOL!
It appears that it will work best with the shifter in the original Mustang location rather than swapping tailshaft housings to move the shifter forward a few inches. That will require a little modification of the upper part of my Chassis engineering x-member kit. The lower part of the kit will have to be trimmed a little too and re-drill the holes for the trans mount.
The harder part will be redoing the pedals but I don't mind that so much because I really didn't like what I had already put together for the C4.
Will take some pics as I figure this thing out. It'll be a little extra work but I'm excited about it. Dave, as for driving a stick in LA traffic, I'm used to it...my daily driver Mazda pickup is a stick. As long as it's an easy clutch, I don't mind.
That's Great! Sounds like a heckuvadeal too! Isn't it funny how a "deal" motivates us? I never planned on a 34 3 window. Then a chassis became available & the rest is history,LOL. While you won't need it, Good Luck with the swap! Keep us up to date when possible.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Yep Randy post up some pics when you get them . The more I see of a 37 the more familiar I will get . Carnut says there where over 800K of the 37s made but you sure don't see many build threads on them .
Also you can shrink the tunnel since your choice of a T5 to gain some pedal room .
Hey Bobby, after a trip to the salvage yard I learned that pedals are bent into all kinds of configurations to make them work. I hate to start hacking up my new floorboards. I think I can just bend the brake pedal around the steering column a bit and get the clearance I need.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang67
Does your chassis still have the original x-member in it? Has the center section been modified yet? If you use something like the Chassis Engineering C4 trans mount kit, the top hat section is going to be right about where the T5 shifter needs to be. I have to get the body lifted up before I can be completely sure about that. If I wanted to switch to the S-10 tailhousing, that would eliminate that problem but then I think the shifter might be too far forward for bucket seats unless I went with a really long shifter. That would sorta defeat the purpose of the "short throw" shifter I suppose. Ideally, I want to get this thing designed so I can drop the trans out the bottom if necessary.
Are you doing anything on yours?
Hey guys, I'm making some progress on my transmission switch. I've made some initial mods to the Chassis Engineering x-member kit so I could fit the trans into the car. I'm now working on the clutch pedal. After a lot of google searches, I've decided to keep the brake/clutch under the floor instead of putting a Kugel assembly under the dash. It will be a lot less work to make the transition since I had already installed a pedal & power booster for the C4 trans.
One of my google searches led me to Jason Slover at Pete & Jakes streetrods. They have recently developed a clutch/brake pedal assembly to attach to the original x-member on 35-40 Fords. This could have been a bolt in fix for me except my big-block firewall presented some issues with pedal placement. I need the pedals to straddle the x-member as you'll see in my rough mock up pics. Jason totally went the extra mile to pull their 37 frame out of storage, bolt up their peddle assembly and take a bunch of pictures for me so we could detemine how to make this work for me. Ultimately we decided I should modify the bracket I have. He's sending me a couple of new pedals, a shaft and a clutch cable. I think it will be fairly simple as soon as I get the parts. I can't say enough good things about Jason's willingness to help figure this out! I've never done business with Pete & Jakes before but gotta say I'm thoroughly impressed with this experience! Check out these pedals if you're using original x-member http://www.peteandjakes.com/blog/index.html
So here are some pics of my rough mock up so far.....
Dave, I haven't heard from you in a while....you ok?
Later, guys...
Hi Randy,
Firstly, I've been kinda quiet here simply because we took some vacation time - 9 days, in Florida to warm up, though I did follow the forum on the hotel's lobby PC. Then, like every other air trip, my wife caught a mega bad cold/flu so I became a Mr Mom. Then there are the homeowner's usual winter inside projects, and me, being a tightwad, do everything myself!! I'm rearranging much of the basement incoming plumbing from the HW heater and main as all these pipes and the heat water pipes were all sitting tightly together and in a dropped ceiling and across a couple of partitions from an earlier owners lack of skills (brains?).
I still think you are creating a lot of work for yourself and need to make sure your clutch leg is ready for more use, I do like your progress. My preference is for a manual too, but in a '31 chassis - probably not easily accomplished:D
P&J are one of the premier places you can do business. A friend bought his '32 chassis and body through them and has had a very good experience. Any problems and they were overnight corrected or advice given. His chassis arrived with a bent 9" housing - P&J had it picked up, returned to their vendor and a replacement sent, all within a week.
As far as my car - it's still in the garage - and covered, waiting for a few 40* days that can be warmed (it's ~17* now with a 25+mph wind):mad::mad: which means my shop is maybe 32*(at the thermometer, not the floor)
Hey Dave, good to hear from you! You're right, this is a little extra work but switching to an AOD was going to be extra work too. Even if I kept the C4, I was going to have to rework the brake pedal because my cutting & bending it was trial & error gone bad. It worked but looked like crap! LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
Expense wise, I think it's going to be a wash. I sold the C4 for a decent price and bought the T5, clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, TO bearing (all new or rebuilt) for a package price so the only extra expense has been the new pedals. If I had gone with the AOD I would still have similar modifications to the center x-member, extra parts to attach the TV cable to the holley carb, a high stall converter (recommended by my cam designer), changes to the shifter, etc. So the AOD could have easily been a lot more expensive.
I carefully considered the clutch vs auto before making the decision by observing how I feel about drivng my 5speed Mazda truck around LA. Sure, in bumper to bumper 2mph traffic on the freeway, it can be a bit of a pain but at that point an automatic is a pain too! LOL! The clutch is easy to push and it's just habit so I don't think it will be a big deal at all. Plus the "fun factor" of having the stick should out weigh those perceived negatives.
I want to get these pedals bent into position with the body on the car so I can get it right then I can raise it up and proceed with the other stuff. It's fun figuring this stuff out. Now if I only had more time & money to get it done more quickly cause the real fun will be cranking it up and roaring down the street!
Here's a couple more pics of the engine in place with the new trans and the new shifter....
Hope you get some spring weather soon!!!!
Randy glad to see the progress . Have to check out P&J on this pedal assy myself . Email me a pick if you have one . I am still knocking out some on the mustang . Also trying to sell the 31 for the funds , to scared of pulling out personal funds in these times . This is where the 37 is stashed another reason the 31 has to go so I can get it in the garage . This is sad the ole car is arthritic LOL I can hear it moaning on a noisy night . :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang67
Hey Bobby,
The snow is beautiful to look at but I'm glad I don't have to live in it! LOL! Yeah, I'm sure that car will be happy to get indoors!
For a pic of the P&J pedals just click on the link in my previous post where I mention them. The one pictured there shows a hydraulic clutch for those using Chevrolet trans but they have a shortened Mustang cable to use with the Ford trans. That eliminates the extra master cylinder and potential extra leaks.
I can also post the pics he took for me of the pedal assembly bolted to the 37 frame.
Bobby, here are the pics Jason from P&J sent me.....
Randy thanks for the pics gives another option for sure . Keep me posted when you get them and how the install goes . This would be a lot easier then mounting booster thru the fire wall .
Ok, so I have the clutch/brake pedal all figured out but don't have good pics of it to post yet so here's what I've been working on in the meantime.
As I've referenced previously in this thread, I had already modified my center x-member to accomodate the C4 trans with the Chassis Engineering kit but it requires some additional modification to install the T5.
One of the problems is with the "top hat" portion of the kit. As you can see in the pics below, the tunnel section on the CE piece is exactly where the shifter on the T5 needs to be. Yes, I could have switched the rear tailshaft housing to one from an S10 to move the shifter forward a few inches, but for bucket seats in this car, I wanted the more rearward location of the shifter. Thus the original location of the Mustang GT shifter was best for me. Since there is a limit to the number of pics per post, I'll state the problem in this one and post my solution in the next.....
So, in a effort to keep this piece strong while giving room for the shifter, I bought a short piece of 6" schedule 40 steel pipe and a small piece of 3/16" plate steel and got to work. I used the pipe to create the tunnel on both ends of the center piece. I used the plate steel to add about 3.5" on the rear to accomodate the extra pipe. This also allowed me to pick up a couple of extra bolts in the x-member to hold this thing in place and hopefully supply more strength. Here's what it looks like: of course if I could afford the groovy after market chassis, I wouldn't have to do any of this but alas, I can't so we do what we can with what we have....LOL! The bottom section of the CE kit needed modification too but that will be on another post.
Here are the pics:
Hey Randy - starting to come together and looking good....but sch40 pipe:LOL::LOL:
Again - nothing being done here, but yesterday and today it actually got to almost 50*, so there is some hope of better weather - and I did see a flock of robins yesterday. But it's again supposed to snow tomorrow:mad:
I've been still "rebuilding" my wife's laundry room which has turned into a major project plus we also bought a newer camper, there are a couple of photos here http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...threadid=40960
Hey Dave,Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
What's the deal with schedule 40 pipe? I chose it because it seemed like the easiest way to make a "tunnel" and it seemed thick enough to keep the strength. Is it overkill or a bad choice?
I saw your new "camper" on another thread. Pretty impressive!
Glad you're getting some warmer temperatures.
Sch 40 is just plain heavy - and b@#$% to work with!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr