It was suggested that we start a new thread for our off-topic discussions regarding the state of the union, world peace, cures for physical ailments or other potentially disrespectful subject matter. So with that as our tenet, this thread is dedicated to the free and open dialog of any subject, provided posts follow the guidelines of the forum which we all agreed to when we signed on, and especially those in Bill's post on RESPECT (not the Aretha Franklin song!!) Respect, Respect, Respect!!!

We cannot ignore that there has been some fantastic dialog history recorded in "another thread", so feel free to cut'n paste (the quote wrap works nice!!) text from there Craigslist notice??., and amplify or further the discussion here. As a means of continuation:

Quote Originally Posted by mrmustang
Clearly you were (are) not alone, as the owner of a customer driven business with just 4 employees these days and myself, it's the very same. Unless we do a quality job for our customers, they will never come back, nor will they use the positive word of mouth that drives 40% of my business to my shop. Whenever I have someone walk in asking if I'm a union shop, I ask them "why, does it matter?" If they respond yes, then I explain the size of my shop, all of a sudden, they no longer see it as "big business", just a "local owner trying to keep his head above water". If they leave because I am not a union shop, it's their loss as non of my competitors (within a 40+ mile radius) are union controlled shops either. Some come back after driving around for hours with a preconceive "chip on their shoulder", others never do, most likely embarrassed to do so........Now, granted, while I am not a union business (nor is my industry likely to unionize any time soon), I am not anti union either, having family and friends who are long time members of their respective unions. Where I do get angry is when I hear someone in a union complaining that they are going to have to pay $10 a week instead of $5.00 a week for their healthcare benefits......Why do I get angry, simple, because I pay (and this is just for basic Blue Cross/Blue Shield for my family) over $1,200 a month for mine.......Same goes for those in the union complaining because they are "only" getting 6 weeks of vacation a year.........Heck, I'd like to be able to take more than 2 days off in a row (I am open 6 days a week)........Sometimes a union is a good thing, other times it is not, you have to really see it from the other side of the equation to fully understand each sides viewpoint.
Bill S.
Bill, you and Charlie have both expressed viewpoints that are supported by my experiences on large projects. One of the worst, burned into my memory, was a large (>$750,000,000) project where we had EPC (turnkey) responsibility. As the project got toward the end we were entering a particularly bitter winter period with lots of snow. Labor productivity dropped to near zero, with workers strolling around the site, "slow walking" every job to the point that the project was in trouble, facing penalties that would be in the millions for being late. In a meeting with the union labor broker he stated "off the record" that they wanted to "stretch" this job a few months to give the rank & file a paycheck through the winter, since no new jobs were starting up nearby. After lengthy discussions opening the books to show that the profit margin on that $750M was only 3% (yes, that's $22.5million on taking risk for $750M), and that the late delivery penalties that would be realized would exceed $15million he saw that their position could crater the whole job so he came up with a counter offer. Pay the union hall $2.5M, and they would ensure that the "slow walk" stopped, and would do their best to bring the project in on schedule.

Now my problem is that the rank & file saw not one nickle of that money. It went into a "slush fund" accessible only by the union leadership, billed as "Labor Consultation" or some such drivel. It all comes back to the old quote, "....absolute power corrupts absolutely." (Lord Anton in the late 1800's, not Churchill since Churchill seems to be a sore point with some people). I believe that labor unions served an extremely valuable service back in the Industrial Revolution and the years of our country's expansion, but today their leadership seems to have something other than the worker's best interests at heart. Seems that we continue to keep coming back to the fact that most of our problems seem to be driven by GREED!