Thread: head upgrade disappointment

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Hi
I have just replaced my camel hump heads with some aluminium 210cc heads.
I dont really feel much more performance than with the camels!
Do you think the 210cc runners are the problem?

sbc 360 cu in
procomp 210cc heads 64cc chambers(all I could afford!)
magnum 280 cam 480/480 lift
holley 600v/s
Flat top pistons
edelbrock rpm intake
block hugger headers

Shall I try a bigger cam,carb,headers what do you guys reckon?

Way too much runner volume for a mild engine IMO... Takes a lot of engine to need a 210 runner, a mild engine like yours would have done much better with something in the 180 range.... By the way, what is this engine in, what transmission, what rear end gears??? Also, during the rebuild was the engine deck height set, balanced or just bolted together??? Without knowing compression ratio on the engine, and many other details anything for improvement would be just a guess.....

Much of what you do is dictated by the compression ratio in cam choices. I would guess those heads are 64cc.

Originally Posted by dave350v8

Hi
I have just replaced my camel hump heads with some aluminium 210cc heads.
I dont really feel much more performance than with the camels!
Do you think the 210cc runners are the problem?

sbc 360 cu in
procomp 210cc heads 64cc chambers(all I could afford!)
magnum 280 cam 480/480 lift
holley 600v/s
Flat top pistons
edelbrock rpm intake
block hugger headers

Shall I try a bigger cam,carb,headers what do you guys reckon?

i do not know how well the pro comp stuff flows .i will not use it .but theres alot of name brand iron stuff that flows very well and a GM vtech i have used could do a better job i would bet . but any ways if you do not have headers on it now that would help alot . could use more cam move the power band up .i do not care to do that would need to know alot more about the build but .more cfm and more cr and get the EX out of the way will help alot

Opps.You did say your heads are 64cc.When we talk about compression ratios and cam choices of course what comes along with that is the octane gas you have to run. I don't know what you guys on that side of the pond have at the pump.

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

i do not know how well the pro comp stuff flows .i will not use it .but theres alot of name brand iron stuff that flows very well and a GM vtech i have used could do a better job i would bet . but any ways if you do not have headers on it now that would help alot . could use more cam move the power band up .i do not care to do that would need to know alot more about the build but .more cfm and more cr and get the EX out of the way will help alot

Pat-don't know enough about the Pro-comps.Because he bought these heads already,any chance he could have them cut down to raise the c/r??. Might be the easiest path to take if he didn't have the block decked.

Originally Posted by 1gary

Pat-don't know enough about the Pro-comps.Because he bought these heads already,any chance he could have them cut down to raise the c/r??. Might be the easiest path to take if he didn't have the block decked.

i know he owns the heads .that i am saying is i never used them or worked over a set or flowed a set to find out if there pigs. most guys love alum look thats why they sell them . what i am saying is there is better iron name brand heads for about the same price or less that work better out of the box i would think . yes he can cut the heads but first needs to were he at now by checking at least one chamber of the heads then go from there. the block should be deck right from the start

Thanks for the input guys!

The chambers are cnc machined to exactly 64cc,my camels were 64cc as well!
I bought them from skip white performance,with a cam around 480/510 lift they
dyno at 410 horsepower according to his website. I had 9.80:1 approx comp ratio
with the camels.
Do I still have 9.80:1 ratio when I changed to aluminium heads? I was told my
ratio is lower when you change to aluminium.

Tech inspector worked out my comp ratio a while back !

My car weighs 2600 lbs, T5 stick shift, 3.08 rear gears and 24" diameter tyres!

aluminum to steel doesn't make any difference on CR, chamber size is the only part of the head that is in the CR equation.

Chamber size and CR are good, the runner volume @210 is more for an all out race engine with a roller cam, and lift in the .600+ range and a lot more duration.... Unfortunately a cam like this is a PITA trying to run on the street in a sbc. Fuel mileage is terrible!

I'm not a real cam guru, I leave that to others.... I believe there is a way to fool (somewhat) the runners by having different cam opening and closing points, but I'll leave that and cam specs up to others... For sure long tube headers will help, with that big of a volume of air coming in, it has to be able to get out.

One other thing, with 5th gear being an overdrive, you could also get away with like a 3.70 gear, and not hurt your cruising mileage or RPM too bad.....

IMO, it would be ideal to sell these heads, then get a pair with 180 runners which would be a lot more "comfortable" and work a lot better on a street engine.

aluminum head vs iron head can come in to play for heat and the cr as you can run a point more with aluminum heads. the point i was making is you can buy a good name brand head with good flow number and can have better port velocity then a china aluminum head . head that volume is 210 that tells nothing other then the cc of port volume to fill it not low lift numbers or velocity at low lift. or how the wet flow of the head is . you can not just assume thing like head CC are what are posted from maker or flow numbers. as some valve s are dish some are not. this plays in to the over all cc of the head chamber . with engine s with to big of head s . you can do two things if you keep the heads move up the power band and buy parts for it to make power . or try to build more low end by using more cr can help to a point a cam shorter duration re work port runners is alot of work . dual plane intake and a EX with a cross pipe like a X pipe. buying just a 170 to 180 runner head will help if there good heads stock gm heads or the pbm thunder heads are a good way to go .360 cid engine the big head can work. your weigth is low but thats if heads are good. but your game plan needs a new attack angle

Thats good info guys, will have a look at different cams and make some long tube headers, sounds like you dont like chinese heads then!(its all I could afford at the moment) I wanted aluminium to reduce some of the weight and of course being able to run unleaded fuel.
Thanks again!

Originally Posted by dave350v8

Thanks for the input guys!

The chambers are cnc machined to exactly 64cc,my camels were 64cc as well!

I think from the fact that the chamber size was matched and is even we can rule out chamber size as an issue. Skip White doesn't put out junk or sell lies.... IMO, the runner volume is the issue to be addressed.

Originally Posted by dave350v8

Thats good info guys, will have a look at different cams and make some long tube headers, sounds like you dont like chinese heads then!(its all I could afford at the moment) I wanted aluminium to reduce some of the weight and of course being able to run unleaded fuel.
Thanks again!

Nothing wrong with the castings from what I've seen of them! Local race engine shop here uses the Pro Comp castings, buys them bare, does the machine work and installs first rate components in them. Some of his sets are making some very strong power numbers!!!! One member on here has a set, ask Roger how his perform!

Also, from what Sehr has said about these castings, the flow rates are about as close to advertised as most of the other aluminum heads in "as cast" condition.... A bit of time on the flow bench will improve any head!!!!!

i buy ppb in iron and darts they work numbers are good. i seen the pro com stuff is a mixed bag the ford sbf heads not bad . and sbc is so/so . and the bbc are not any good . yes any head with a tune up can be helped out but it is a time =money deal. i am dealer for most all after market heads.i can buy your head under two names one is procomp the other name i will not say on line . as i build engines put my name no them have seen the heads first hand know a shop that sells them and use them i not sold on them i been looking at the heads when there first came out they still have some issues. i sell and use stuff that will not get the customer in trouble have many customers on here and all over world i lose abit of money on the better heads but in the long run customers win so in the long run i do to

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Nothing wrong with the castings from what I've seen of them! Local race engine shop here uses the Pro Comp castings, buys them bare, does the machine work and installs first rate components in them. Some of his sets are making some very strong power numbers!!!! One member on here has a set, ask Roger how his perform!

Also, from what Sehr has said about these castings, the flow rates are about as close to advertised as most of the other aluminum heads in "as cast" condition.... A bit of time on the flow bench will improve any head!!!!!

Thanks Dave that has reassured me,will try some of the ideas people have mentioned! Im also going to re jet my holley now with the new heads.
Might even try a 650 double pumper which is sitting on a shelf.
Thanks again