Hey gang, I am going to have a motor built for a 65 nova. Have a 350 block that will clean up at .030 over. I want to have a 302 but I don't know where to begin... help.... Burt.
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Hey gang, I am going to have a motor built for a 65 nova. Have a 350 block that will clean up at .030 over. I want to have a 302 but I don't know where to begin... help.... Burt.
Umm, well you will need a 3 inch stroke crank, the 283 stroke is 3 inch, but it is small journal and will not fit a 69 and up 350 block. The genuine 302 crank is large journal, forged steel and if you find one that is allright, they are expensive, you will need the 302 pistons, they have the correct pin height. All your late model rods will bolt right in, but some are better than others.
What are you using this motor for ? They create power up in the top end of the rev range but low rev range they are a chore to drive. So grea for racing but hard to live with on the street unless you keep the revs high. I asume you are using a manual gearbox. And at least a 3.73 gear ratio.
or a nice stall converter 3000+ i had a 4500 now use a 3500 might be going back to the 4500< or a stick if i can ever get the $> :LOL:
If it is not numbers matching why not build a 383???Quote:
Originally Posted by burty
Car currently has a 12to1 383 with a 572 lift solid cam. Motor is on it's way out so I figured why not a 302? I just love the sound of a chevy over 7000rpm.....music to my ears. Just wanting to do something you don't see anymore that's all. Thanks for the information. Burt.
Fair enough ...........Quote:
Originally Posted by burty
As said,you will need 302 pistons,5.7" rods,and a 3" stroke crank. The small journal 265 & 283 cranks will need childs-albert bearing spacers (no one else makes them that I am aware of) to put the small journal crank in a 350 block.The spacers cost $300! Or find one of the 681/2- 69 302 large journal cranks,,,good luck on that one. Or a small journal 327 block,,,good luck on that one too.
Considering cost and parts available,a .060 283 would be just as nice,,,minus,ooooo,,,about 20hp or so? 283's are not that scarce yet and the parts can be found on 'ripoff-bay':LOL: :CRY: :LOL: Ripoff-bay parts,,,well,,,they are a gamble,you just got to "know when to walk away,know when to run" as the gambler sang.:LOL:
Another alternative,if you have the do-ray-me is that the parts,including chevy 302 blocks can be bought new now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAYLUR
WHERE ???? :)
Guess I should have clarified that. Summitt sells a NAL-10066034 bare block that is advertised under 'application' as for a gen1 chevy 302. And that it is,really,,,. The only catch is that it is for the 302 that used the large journal or 350 journals. So it is a 302 block if you have the right crank. Apologies for stating and not clarifying.
Thanks :) :cool: :D
i found a SMJ 327 they are sort of hard to find but not to bad, got it for 150 bucks! tin to tin, minus intake and exhaust and guess what its gettin a 283 crank woo hoo!
Find a 283 and have it overbored .125, and you will have what we used to refer to as a 301 before GM started calling it a 302. A lot of guys built 301's back in the 1960's and early 70's. That is your best bet.
If you can see if you can find the "goody" 283 block this has the uderside of the crankcase, the bottom of the cylinder bores. Where this area is rounded to clear the larger swing of the 327 crank stroke, these blocks can be safely bored to 4.000 inch +
The only thing i am trying to remember is do you run the stock weight 302 pistons on the 283 crank. I suppose one way to check is to weigh a 283 piston and then a 302 piston, just to be sure. Just be aware that the small journal rods run the smaller 11/32" rod bolts as opposed to the later big journal rod bolt sive 3/8" rod bolts
southerner, I think you are right about the bottom of the cylinders being rounded for the blocks that were used for the 283 or 327 both,or so I hope!:)
Then that 283 is safe to bore to 4.000 " I pressume that the motor is in bits so you allready measured the bores.
doesnt anyone pay attention to me?:LOL: :LOL:
yes you can use stock 302 pistons, i am using standard bore 12:5-1 trw's they are the most expensive part of the motor, 650 bucks a set usually. i use a fluiddampner not the streetdampner version. and if you making a 302 you have no business putting a 327 crank in a 283 block! its the other way around! 327 with 283 crank=302 have the good rod bolts installed and have them shotpeened <however u spell it> and use good brand new arp fasteners for the mains, rods, etc and your bottom end will be fine, i take mine up to 7-7500 every single time i drive it!.
Yes it is scattered all over the garage and basement.:LOL: The pistons that were in it are .030 283's. Measure about 3.900" with caliper, I don't have a mic that big,let the machine shop measure with accuracy. By the way,does anyone have any idea of how to identify or decode the two large letters on the front left of the block?
gassers rule,as I stated,I wasn't sure about that suffix and the motor is not a 327. I was going on memory(a bad one obviously) and had ID numbers confused. Reason is that if the suffix code is for a 327 then thats probably what it is,mine is not,I had letters in the wrong place. The HB code is not on the pad in front of the pass. cylinder head,it's in another place on the front. Thats why I said to not quote me about one code pertaining to two different motors. It is a 283. :o :o :o
those ARP fasteners you used to hold the main caps down gasser, they were studs and bolts right ? Just checking for clarity thats all.:) :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAYLUR
Do you have the block casting numbers and date codes ? we could probably double check it out at mortecs site.
With all this talk on the bottom end what is happening with the top ? Like the heads intake and carburetion ? And the most important thing of all cam selection. :D
easiest thing in the world to do, is over cam a 283
This is whats in my std. bore 283.
SUM-1106
Basic Operating RPM Range: 3,000-6,200 RPM
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234 int./234 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 292
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 292
Advertised Duration: 292 int./292 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.488 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.488 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.488 int./0.488 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 114
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Scooter,if you are paying $ 650 for a set of TRW pistons someone is making about an extra $ 200 a set.Quote:
Originally Posted by gassersrule_196
At $ 500-$ 525 you can get into a set of SRP's and at $650 you could buy a set of JE pistons.
Also if you shop around you can get new 5140 I- beam rods that are stronger than the GM "pink" rods for $150-$175 with ARP bolts and they are not 40 year old rods.
Get rid of your Fluiddamper and buy a good SFI approved balancer.
The fluid filled dampers are nothing but clever marketing trick.
The ATI would be the first pick or or for less money some of the imported SFI approved balancers work very well.
Southerner,is that for me? If so I had no intentions of hijacking this thread I was just trying to add my 2cents worth before I put my foot in my mouth.
But if addressed to me,,,I have checked several times on the heads,block,and crank and it is a 283. As far as the top end I was waiting to see how thin the cyl. walls come out to determine the rest of the vehicle. If it can be street driven,maybe as far as 10 mile away without meltdown,then I'll build it very similiar to the original 67-69 motors. If not then I'll build it as a brackett car and try to get 350-400 hp out of it. Or maybe Scooter has a tunnel ram & 2 4's-or- a hilborn injectors he'll sell me?:D Oh,,,,a straight front axle,ladder bars,,,COOL:D
No, it is not just for you,;) what I was trying to point out is that you build a balanced engine package. By that I mean the top end of the engine puts out x amount of power so the bottom end had better be able to handle it. Or conversely people build a bullitproof bottom end for huge $$$$$$$$ (cubic money) and there is a weak top end sitting on top of the motor. This goes for all types and sizes of engines. But this is what the forums are for we all kick around ideas. I would not worry to much about thread hijacking, we are all guilty of doing it.:rolleyes: :)
Damn thread hijackers............just kidding I am very entertained keep it up!
Also cam advice? Car has 355 gear 26" tire 3200 convertor, team g intake 461 heads fully ported and polished. The car went 11.53 with the 12to1 383 and bfg drag radials.
Burty,with a 65 how could you not want a 302? Keep the intake and heads,cam it something like Isky's Z-40 solid lifter.511 lift,310 duration;12:5-1 pistons;I'll get my chops smacked for this, but a 513 gear;holley 650 double pumper with maybe a little aviation gas added(if available nowadays);a 4 speed trans would be nice with this setup but if you keep the auto,someone else will have to suggest the converter,,,,4000 stall maybe? The Z40 is listed for 3500-7500??? With traction (the car:whacked: ) this may keep you in the high 11's???
i cant use pink rods, they are lrg journal, i use standard 5.7's stock i beamers , and have never had one or seen one break, shot peened and new arp bolts and they are solid., isnt that how we all learn? hard to belive these old parts are better then they get credit for? i dont have the $ to buy new fancy crankshafts, h beam allum rods, new allum heads and all that i use what i got. you try finding brand new standard bore 302 12:5-1 pistons i have looked everywhere! and when i do find them i pay for them belive me ouchies! maybe im just the crazy old <young> coot who made all the old stuff work to get the win? :LOL: i guess what im trying to say is, if i had the $ id have the brand new fancy stuff, but i dont, so i dont have the fancy new stuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by erik erikson
Same here gassers rule. As a matter of fact my ebay pistons came today.Standard size original Z28 pistons. They are in good shape for $155 shipping included from a speed shop in Canton. And yes I have bought junk off that site before but these are good. My 16th purchase from ebay but I'm calling this my last purchase of anything over $50.
But I'm the guy that just builds 'drivers' and wouldn't put big money in one even if I had a million$$$. Wellllll,,,,I might buy a 68-69 Z28 if I had that much and weld it down to a trailor:LOL:
You took my quote out of context.Quote:
Originally Posted by gassersrule_196
The new rods I was refering to are a 2.0 journal size.
Buy the time you are done preping your 40 year old rods you could have brand new ones that are much stronger.
Hey,you get what you pay for.Quote:
Originally Posted by FAYLUR
Who knows you might just have bought eight good ash-trays.
Better mic. the skirts.;)
Eric,,,let me buy junk if I want to:LOL: Hey,,,,I don't smoke,,,,but can you imagine how big all my buddies eyes would get when they see original equipment Z28 pistons on my living room shelf? ",,,YEAH DUDES, THOSE ARE REAL Z28 PISTONS"**) **) **)
Eric,I did already,,,is .300 difference from top to bottom too much?
it all depends on how well you know the machine shop guys:3dSMILE:
OK,,,I'll not be a smartie,yes .300 is way to much,,,probably even to keep a piston from breaking. These are acceptable for my use and won't rock n' roll seeing that the rings will last the mileage I plan before selling or throwing a rod.They have .030" difference.
But Eric has a point and seeing how I bought an OFFY 360 intake with striped bolt holes off that site I wouldn't recommend buying pistons. But the bolt holes are an easy $20 fix,expanded skirts or broken lands are not, but these came from a machine shop that wasn't wanting to unload them to get their money back,so I lucked out.
A star is born.Quote:
Originally Posted by FAYLUR
Judging by your clever responce I doudt you own or even know how to read a mic.
Just stay in the truck.L.O.L:whacked: :LOL:
Was just doing a little humor with those remarks Eric. But anyway,,,bless you! I don't have to argue.
I might have been a little harsh and for that I am sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by FAYLUR
I don't want to encourge anyone to ever buy any used parts un-less they have been checked out by a good machinist/engine builder.
And then we go to the old thing of if you can't afford the time and money to do it right, when are you going to find the money to do it over....
Scooter, you've been lucky so far. But lets be real, here. How many passes did you put on the car last year and what was the ET???? \
Lets all make sure we are comparing apples to apples. I like to run either 8.90 or 9.90 Super classes, "just playing" is a 10.90 car. It's not fair to compare parts necessary to run a car with an engine that will live to the parts required to run a 12 to 14 second car......
my motor grant that dont have nothing for passes in 2 years, the old 301 before this one was ran every single weekend for 8 years staight, 10 passes a day average 12's r fun because stuff dont break as much:p :LOL:
I would not be afraid to put a set of rings and bearings every now and then.12's? Like Dave said lets see some of those time slips.Quote:
Originally Posted by gassersrule_196
:LOL: :whacked: