aw your making me work, ill post them when i find them i have them stashed in the garage god knows we all have something stashed out there for safe-keeping.
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aw your making me work, ill post them when i find them i have them stashed in the garage god knows we all have something stashed out there for safe-keeping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erik erikson
i have seen those time slips and 12s all day long why change rigs let a compression tester tell you the truth
not say that changing them is a bad thing
If he was a bracket racer he would be replacing his rings,bearings,valve springs,touching up the seats and valves and checking everything over each and every winter.Quote:
Originally Posted by cutlassman_406
With 7 years of racing I will bet he has "collapsed skirts" on more than one piston.
This is a little something I like to call "preventive maintenance".
If I had a dollar for every guy that walks into the shop each and every year wanting to know why his car keeps going a little slower every weekend I would be set.
I simply ask when was the last time you replaced your valve springs?
If they have to stop and think about it I know it has been to long.
I have several signs in the shop one sign says "If you want to play you have to pay".
On a high rpm small block, I believe I would be checking valve springs and doing a leakdown on the engine a whole lot more often then once a year!!! Those parts really take a pounding when you start running 7,000 plus rpm every pass... When I run a small incher, WEEKLY maintenance is a check of the valve springs with an on-head tester, run the valves, and a general checkover. I would usually do a leakdown on the engine every other weekend. It's a whole lot cheaper to catch these parts going bad BEFORE they break and take a bunch of other high dollor (or cheap leftovers) out the side of the block with them!!!!
As with any kind of racing, everyone wants to go fast, and few people are willing to do the work required to make the car go fast!!!! I guess there's a whole lot more glory in driving the car then turning the wrenches.....
Dave,we have to take baby steps here L.O.L.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
You don't have a "snowballs chance in hell" to convince a guy to do this when he does not touch a thing in 7 years.
Lets get him convinced about checking all these things once a year and then we go to once a month and then every other weekend.
Sometimes you have to "take people by the hand" and lead them.
Scooter,if you are reading this take notes we are here to help you.
Eric, you would probably know. What was the maintenance like on those 1st Generation Z28 302's. Was a high maintenance and the trans am rule changes, plus the difficulty of getting the engine to perform in the lower street driven rev range the major reason that Chevrolet only ran the 302 for 3 years ? Becase even by Chevrolets standards those 302's used to really howl right up to 7500 rpm, and would beat the (expletive) out of the valve springs. The springs and pistons were considered to be throw away items after every long distance road race. :CRY:Quote:
Originally Posted by erik erikson
Way back when I use to race 302, which was a 327 with 283 steel crank, monday after racing was tear down night. It was cheaper to replace gaskets than a block or crank.
this motor doesnt have 400 miles on it erik, the old 301 lasted 8 years before spinning a bearing which is funny because it still had the front sump v-8 nova oil pan. this motor has the rear sump moroso pan, and i had the pan off last winter and it looked very nice. my dad gave me the car 2 years ago, he had the old motor i have the new one.
Good preventative maintenance Brad, what did you find ? Were you measuring components like pistons and bores and checking spring pressures and camsahft lobe wear.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
Would just like to know as I have a genuine 302 DZ preffix motor in a first generation camaro with the M22 gearbox. Anything else on the car to look out for ? :D
Mine wasn't a genuine 302, but loved the high rpm's. Most of the time there wasn't anything to replace but sometimes a cracked valve spring or missing retainer. I replaced the bearings every month, recross hatch the walls every 6 month and replaced the rings. Made the block last 2 years of hard racing with no major problems. Remember back in 72 parts were alot cheaper, gasket set $25, bearings $20, and ring set $35. My race car was a 67 nova 2dr post car, M21 trans, 12 bolt rear 4:88 gears.
:) Burt,
Go Big...Go very big! 406 or bigger(maybe 434 or 440 in a nice aftermarket block!!) Put 302 badges on it and don't tell anyone what you've done!
I won't tell a soul...:)
George
PS did you buy the second nova yet?
I'm trying, I'm trying!!!!!!!
.......Faster Daddy Faster!!!!!
Aaaargh!!!!!!!!!!!!
id say stick with the 302, why have more cubes if you can do it with less! btw erick, the skirts on the 8 year old pistons were fine the pistons are reuseable!
But some of us are addicted to the scream of a high winding chevy......:rolleyes: :D :D :D
you got that right
Yes,,,and some of us don't care for power down low (torque). But I don't criticize those who do.:cool: Different strokes for different folks,it makes the world go around:)
you want torque go build a big block otherwise shut yer piehole :LOL:
If you want hi-rev's then you should hear my old GSXR Suzuki 1050.Quote:
Originally Posted by southerner
Or if you want to hear something wild you should hear one of my customer's alu. rod 565.
8,400 on a Big block Chevy.
Now that's what I am talking about.
:confused: :confused: :confused: You'll never catch me building a big blockQuote:
Originally Posted by gassersrule_196
If your scared ,just say your scared.:eek: :LOL: :whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by FAYLUR
Well, if you like winding the snot our of an engine, and only running in the 12's, then you probably shouldn't build a big block.... My next one will be a 557 incher. Only reason it's that size is cause I can't afford the 815 cuber....:LOL: :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by FAYLUR
If you want big cubes with alot of torque, go get an Abbrams tank v12 diesel. I think it runs about 1000 cubes.......................LOL
Can you de-stroke em,run solids,and 600+ gear? :LOL: :whacked: **)Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
Think I'll stick to something a bit more practical.....Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
Is this a "drop in" engine for a 68 Camaro???:LOL: :whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
ive seen guys make 302's run 10's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
GASSERS RULE_196 that wouldn't be a certain NHRA record holder would it??:)
non nhra ihra events, hell i dont even know if my car would pass tech at an nhra track!
And I've OWNED big blocks that run in the 8's.... all I'm saying is that 302's are not the only way to go fast, and certainly not the fasteset of the fast. A larger engine with higher torque numbers will accelerate a car at a faster rate in identical weight and set up cars. That's just physics, not an opinion..... Scooter all you've ever ran is a 302, how would you know it is the best bang for the buck until you try other combinations????Quote:
Originally Posted by gassersrule_196
not its not, weve ran 350's 383's 327's 283's 302's so its not the only thing,. btw if you guys think 302's are weak you should see our local old timer who runs a destroked 262 to a 233 cubic inch sbc that runs 10's !:LOL:
oK, 302's are the best engines ever. All the Pro Stockers will be running them this season......
And I'm sure the guy in the 10's is running stock heads and a 3500 pound car, right???
i never said they were the best engines ever built dave, hell if i could afford it id have an ls6 454 or a new crate 572 but i dont have 20 k. and now that you mention it its a 2nd gen camaro and yes he has iron heads, i sware to god. he is the just about the best head porter in this town. i know it all sounds so impossible but it does in fact run 10's ill get his specs from him later and post them.
There is a lot of talk about small smallblocks and big bigblocks...and both obviously can get a well setup car down the track fast, in its respective car. What about a large small block though. Same weight advantage of a small block, with larger cubes. Even a well built studded two bolt main 406 with good aluminum heads and intake will produce very respectable power and still be light enough not to weigh down the front end of a 65 Nova like a bulldozer was sitting on the hood. This is the car that this 302 question was about yes? For the same peak hp numbers, I'd personally rather see the extra 100ft lbs. of torque that comes with the 406 and with serious grunt starting in the 2500rpm or so range rather than waiting for the 302 to "spool up" to 4500 or so before anything of any real consequence starts happening. Never mind the fact that the vavle train components for an 8000rpm 302 and a 6500rpm 406 would be in a whole different category when it comes to complication, expense, and durability! Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of going the harder route. Screaming smallblocks are wild to watch. I think the big question in the end for someone contemplating the small cube smallblock is whether the natural cubic inch disadvantage and the extra expense required to keep a 302 or similar displacement motor together running the very high rpms recessary to make it really perform worth the effort. And is the comparitive lack of street drivability an issue. Clearly a regularly street driven street/strip car would have much more managable street manners with a bunch more cubes under it. If that's not an issue, no problem. For those that go defiantly against the bigger is better mentality, I applaud you. Isn't it just human naure to want to root for the underdog!
George
I agree completely, as do most here on the forum. This "discussion" has been going on for a few years. Nobody's opinion (or the facts) have changed, and doubt they will..... With all the good aftermarket heads and stroker kits available on the aftermarket now, I guess I'll keep spending my money on the big inch engines and the inherent low rpm torque advantages over the "screamers" and the high rpm.... Many years ago, we had to run the small inch screamers cuz that's about all that was available in small blocks, fortunately that is no longer the case. I like the nostalgia stuff as much as the next guy, but when the new big inch combinations can be built so economically and produce horsepower and torque numbers in excess of 400 without breaking the bank it just makes more sense to me to use the big inch stuff...
I'm with you Dave...it's an uphill battle for sure to try to argue against the cost effectiveness and power of a larger displacement small block vs a smaller one to end up with similar strong street/strip performance. That being said, the originator of this post(Burty) is a good friend of mine and we enjoy busting each others chops on this subject. He knows far more about engines than he lets on. And I'm sure he is fully aware that building a screamin' 302 doesn't make cost effective sense compared going bigger. H@(( he is running a VERY strong old school solid lifter 383 and he will have to give up much of its benefits to go so much smaller. To make a 302 run as fast at the track as what his current motor is CAPABLE of(it hasn't nearly run it's best yet, that thing slams into the 7200 chip like hitting a wall), I can only imagine what a 302's rotating assembly and valvetrain would have to endure to some insane rpm to compete with it! But he has always liked the idea of an old school high winding Bill Jenkins kind of baby small block animal. I have to admit, I like the attitude of it. I'll stick with 400 plus cube small blocks myself...taking the easier road. Call me a pansy!
George
Those are points well taken Dave. :)
I am nbot going to say "BUT" here. So it is mentioned that we like the nostalgia of the older cars. In my case I am fortunate to have a classic 302 Camaro. The way I look at it, it is not a car that I would drive all the time. I would just take it out on an occasional fine weekend, the same sort of thinking as would apply to a person who owned a boat, he uses it as a hobby or for his relaxation. How many people do you know drive thier boat to work? (OK commercial fishermen fall into this catagory :LOL: ) This does not just apply to to cars of course it applies to all things collectable, including planes, trains,,, yes people do collect them too and run them.
My second project is that Holden ute, coming along very nicely now, 383 Chevy, blower, auto and 9 inch. Totlly different motor, low rpm torque builder plenty of HP at low revs, and to be a fun machine to drive. Also as an advantage the bower will provide that shriek for the ears to feast on !!!!
So I suppose I could summarise all this by saying that you cannot really have a dual purpose vehicle, you build it for the job that it is best good at, then you pays your money and makes your choices. :HMMM: :HMMM: Well the factory dual purpous vehicles are $WD's so I will leave that for either another forum or somebody else. :whacked:
dave, i agree with you, if i could afford a set of brand new AFR's they would be on my car, but i cant so i dont. ive always wanted to build a 427 but i cant afford it so i stick with cheaper stuff.
Don't settle for a 427!!! Some of the really big inch aluminum blocks are starting to show up on the market, save your pennies and find one of them... Know what ya mean on the $$$$$, going to sell my '71 so I can throw a bunch of money at the Ranchero. Then sell both the Camaro's, and throw a bunch more money at the Ranchero. Totaled up "the list" the other day, only need to drop about another 30K in parts on it, and it should be close to done!!!!!:CRY: :CRY: :CRY: :CRY: