Well it is real comforting to know that you (and IC2) have got my back and are always looking out for my wallet! :HMMM::LOL::rolleyes::LOL::eek:
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With a buddies help (he located on C'list) I got a pair of 390 cfm holley's this morning. Real nice shape and a good price! So we took a step closer. Also got the leaky trans front seal replaced. It was awful cold for too long in the garage and once my feet got cold I gave up and came home. Maybe tomorrow I'll make some more progress.
Good find!!! Should work great on the neat intake!!!!!
I thought so and once I saw someone on here do exactly what I wanted to do ( pair of 390's on a tunnel ram ) and they had great results.. I just knew I couldn't stop! LOL..
So I went ahead and got a trans "re-programming" kit ordered.
There's a B&M setup in there now but I hate it! Thought I'd try this Trans-Go setup.
It's only money right Randy?!?! 8-)
Mike - I've used the B&M, Transgo and now the TCI which along with their servo kit has been the best in a C4 for me. If you have had to drill the sheet metal divider in the control valve, you may not be able to use that one for another supplier's kit, C4 or AOD
This gadget:http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...d/DSCN1922.jpg
TCI High Performance Servo Kits 523005 - SummitRacing.com , an AOD version is 10 bucks more
(Holy c@#p that gadget got expensive, I paid around $70)
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Yeah, but you know how it is.. just gotta do something! Anything.. it is a toy after all and I've never tried the transgo stuff. I got the transgo kit from summit, A "reprogramming" setup that costs with shipping about 95.00.
The guys on the ford tranny forum like it so I'll try it out.
How are the dual 390's coming along, Mike???? They are gonna look so kewl on the Windsor!!!!!!
I haven't done a thing with them yet.. I hope to modify the trans valve body this weekend and get the setup into the frame. I've also been searching for a distributor to use. Everything I've found so far won't clear the intake. I may have to get "creative".... we'll see.
Mike,
Looking back at the pictures I'm assuming your problem is the diameter of the distributor body as opposed to the height? Regardless, Edelbrock uses a small body, short cap Mallory distributor on their ProFlow XT's where the throttle body hangs out over the top. Mallory does not acknowledge the part number, as it's packaged for Edelbrock but it's theirs. Summit shows several small body Mallory units for the SBF engines if height is not the problem - FORD 5.0L/302 Mallory Ignition Distributors - SummitRacing.com
Yes Roger, the diameter is a huge prolem and I will not grind on the intake! There is a connecting piece that passes in front and en-circles the whole dizzy. So an offset drive won't work. I may have to "clearance" the dizzy body or find one that sits higher. The narrowest body I've found so far is 3" and that one is an old mallory and still hits so the unit won't sit on the block. It comes very close but I'm not there yet.
We'll keep searching.
You might call Mallory and give them the height dimension from hold down ring to top of manifold and see if they have a tall drive with the skinny top that fits? If you can get a technician over 40 you might have a chance....
Looking back, one photo in your Post #21 on Page 2 (Link Here - http://www.clubhotrod.com/ford-small...tml#post461002 ) shows a distributor in place?
That MSD Billet I gave you info about wont fit? Not sure if there IS a smaller diameter distributor with that one being 5/8" less then a stocker.
Roger - don't you mean over 50
Roger. That pic with the distributor is the closest I've found so far and that one still needs to go down another quarter inch.
Dave, since the measurement you provided was still in excess of 3" I figured I'd keep looking. You taking yours out??? Can I borrow it for a trial fit?? :LOL::):LOL::HMMM:
I'm thinking I'll have to call Summit and hopefully get a tech who won't mind digging into some boxes with a tape measure...
On the dist issue-----look for a mech advance only one as they aren't as deep as the dual advance ones----so there is more height from the mounting flange part to the bottom of the main where the advance and points are----------
http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons...artoon-022.gif
Let me know the next time you are coming this way - we can probably work something out -
Mike,
The Mallory Billet Comp on mine looks to be just a hair under 3" OD below the cap. The ledge on the cap makes it 3.25" but that should be well above your manifold. I really think you'll have a lot better luck calling Mallory or MSD direct and talking to their tech guys instead of Summit. There's gotta be a distributor out there that fits. They used the manifold back in the 60's, right? Maybe a magneto.....:3dSMILE:
Read my lips-----the centrifugal only advance distributors have smaller bottom housings and will clear that manifold------
So this talk got me thinking (may be dangerous ;):LOL:) that in my old days I never messed with a distributor that didn't have vacuum advance, and now everything I mess with is total electronic/computer controlled. As I'm thinking about it, the mechanical advance can be adjusted, via springs & weights, to yield the slope you want and the rpm where curve starts climbing but you've got one curve of advance vs rpm which means the advance at say 2500rpm is what it is, whether WOT or 1/4 Throttle. Adding the vacuum advance lets you overlay a second advance curve for part throttle operation, which lets you pull in a few degrees at cruise for improved economy, right? The ECU controlled spark goes a step further, allowing the spark to be mapped over rpm and vacuum independently to create a "topo map" of timing. So if you run a distributor with mechanical advance only you set your advance curve for WOT operation, and then tune the carbs to get the best economy you can? Are there any "tricks" for weights and springs to change the shape of the curve to get closer to optimum? Guess this is why the old shops had the Sun machines with O-scopes, right? Just curious, and not trying to get too far off the path here....;):LOL::rolleyes:
Roger - exactly why I now run a distributor with a vacuum advance.
Now - as Jerry pointed out that vacuum advance has to be screwed to a boss on the distributor which in its normal location may interfere with the intake in a factory designated location. True, but that distributor really doesn't care where that boss is installed - only where the rotor and contacts to each cylinder are located - the vac advance can, its mounting boss can face forward - as long as the wiring is correct in relationship to the rotor which ..... well most of us know about crankshafts, camshafts and how they all work in conjunction with each other.
No rocket science here - the body of the distributor either fits - or it doesn't. My guess is that my small diameter MSD billet dist. will fit, but a $299 plus shipping trial gets expensive.
With the new, big cap
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...d/DSCN1740.jpg
With the small dia. cap:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...DSC_0023-2.jpg
I think that's how I ended up in York, PA once!!! :LOL::LOL::LOL:
You got all the basics Roger. 2 points tho'.,
first at wide open throttle (or under heavy acceleration) there is little to no vacuum! That vacuum chamber does nothing but retards timing in that situation so it prevents ping.
And 2, when tuning centrifugal only or dual advance systems, you MUST KNOW the rpm range you want to work in and what the available vacuum will be in that range. Being at wot is really immaterial as the full timing should be "all in" before say 3K rpm.
Tricks like adding weight or where you can add weight to the flyweights can be fun. Also drilling the weights can accomplish things!
Also changing the springs for lighter/heavier springs, sometimes 1, sometimes both, I won't have access to the sun distributor machine like I used to so this one will take a bit longer.
OH, one last point, If we're talking cars / motors and it's "MY" thread! You can't stray :p:LOL:
I'm sorry boys, but the distributer in the pic that Roger referanced has a vacume advance unit on it!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah Mike, we're saying the same thing but from different directions. You're considering running at cruise and going to WOT, where the vacuum drops out and it "retards" back to the mechanical curve; while I was looking at accelerating at full throttle, and backing off to cruise, where the vacuum recovers and pulls in more timing. I peeked at my spark map, and indeed it goes "all in" to 35.5 degrees (pistons say not to exceed 36) at 3000 rpm and above. But it also throws in more timing above 3000rpm but with MAP at zero, 10" and 12", going all the way up to 40" advance. I had a hard time getting my head around that until I realized that the only way to get to that condition was to be coasting down the mountain above 3000 rpm, off the throttle. One of the guys at Edelbrock helped me understand that area of the map.
Indeed it does, Jerry, indeed it does. So you're saying that the old mechanical advance only distributors actually have a different body, where they use the same shaft but everything sits higher since they don't have the vacuum canister boss & linkage?
So it does.. I had forgotten that the accel one was in the pic. , The mallory does clear better because it doesn't have the vacuum chamber but it still needs a smaller diameter for clearance as the mounting flange is still not touching the block.
Sorry for my confusion.
Yes, my "typical" approach, using a different direction! :LOL:
I usually find most folks "forget" that vacuum goes away at WOT and they think it's doing all this work for them when it can't! It's at zero! And it's actually retarding the timing.
Off the top of my head I cannot remember working with 40 degrees "all in".. that's pretty cool. But if handled wrong that could raise some havoc and quick I think! ;)
I used the "Live Chat" on Summits website and here's what they said to a question I asked.
Chad: Hi, my name is Chad. How may I help you?
Mike Frade: I've got an old Shelby Ram Box intake and I'm trying to find a dizzy that'll fit. If I order one and it doesn't fit, can I return it and try a different one?
Chad: Hi Mike, As long as the item is new and unused, we will accept the return 90 days from the date of purchase.
Mike Frade: So inserting it into the block to test fitment is acceptable?
Chad: Yes, that is fine, as long as it doesn't get scratched up.
Mike Frade: Great! I guess it's time to go shopping! :-)
Chad: Ok, have a good day!
So after Roger gets me some measurements.. we'll order one in.. or maybe two... 8-)
I think it's just waaaaaaaay too much hassle for a busy man to contend with!!!! You'd do better to just send me the intake and carbs, then just forget the whole mess!!!!!!!!!:D
PS--I'd even pay the freight just to help you do away with all this unneeded stress!
Mike,
Dave may be right! Seriously, one thing you didn't mention to the Summit guy is that you get to pay the shipping both ways on every one you order, and that runs into some bucks these days! Back at home, and will get you a picture or two and some measurements tomorrow. I'll tell you now that my installation is VERY tight, so I'm not sure pictures are going to show you much.
ROFL... Just call me stubborn! But, I'll persevere!
OK Mike, first I have apologize for the grunge & grime in these pictures, but the car's headed into the shop for some fiberglass work so I didn't take time to detail the engine :o As you can see, my installation is extremely constrained with the throttle body extension immediately above, and the water neck boss all but surrounding the distributor body. This Mallory Billet distributor was made special for Edelbrock to be as short as possible for vertical clearance, but also small diameter.
Tucked in between the driver's side fuel rail and the water neck:
Attachment 57315
Water neck clearance is all but nothing:
Attachment 57316
Block boss beneath the hold down clamp to bottom of base is ~1.5" (very hard to measure with any accuracy):
Attachment 57317
Tucked under the Throttle Body Extension - Intake has to come off to pull the distributor, but with the cap & rotor pulled there is room to lift it enough to shift the drive gear on the cam gear:
Attachment 57318
The body is very nearly an exact 3.00 inches, not counting the mounting ears for the cap:
Attachment 57319
Hope these help. As I mentioned to you before, I really think you'd be better served by calling Mallory and talking to them about putting something together that may not be "standard". They might have a small diameter body like this one, but with a more "standard" shaft length to get it up above your restrictions. That would be my approach before I started buying and returning units with Summit.;)
Thank You for the pics / measures Roger! I' m thinking that the 1.5" from mount to bottom of body would be a killer! I believe my old mallory is 3" off the mount and it hits.
I was browsing MSD last night and I like the looks of one and am waiting for an e-mail reply as we speak. We'll see what happens.