Yes-a FLOOR MOUNT on a T350 will work fine---------
But a trans mount with some long hot roddie lever and a big skull head knob working on one of the MODERN transmissions is a DISASTER------------
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Yes-a FLOOR MOUNT on a T350 will work fine---------
But a trans mount with some long hot roddie lever and a big skull head knob working on one of the MODERN transmissions is a DISASTER------------
I've got the long lever.. mounted on the trans, no silly skull(s) tho.. modern? it's an AOD, from last century, not sure if you'll consider that modern? But it was easy to install and works well, drive is locked in until you push the top button.
But I see it as all part of the build. You find / discover a problem and seek out ways to clear the hurdle, it's all part of the build right? Just make all these different parts from different manufacturers work together. It ain't always "off the shelf" bolt on even when it's supposed to be! AND Even if it is a "kit car"!
We don't all share the same opinion on all the topics concerning a hot rod build, but that's what keeps it interesting right?!?!
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Dave----you might want to take a look at putting the right side back where it was and changing the left side instead to correct wheel base--might help on the upper angles----
It may be the perspective of the photo, but to me it sure looks like on the upper A arm that left side (rear?) bushing is a lot more angled than the one to the right (front?). Are you sure that you don't have a problem with A-arm fabrication? It's most apparent in that third picture from the top, where the bushing on the left seems to be cocked relative to the A-arm tube (not aligned orthagonally) and to the other A-arm.
Upon further review I think I see what's wrong. You only moved the bottom A-arm back 1/2", so in order to align the spindle you have to have that huge mis-match on your upper adjusters which is cocking the bushings and will cause them to wear out quickly. Your upper & lower A-arms are installed on the frame as a set, not independently. If you moved the lower back 1/2" you need to move the upper mount back the same amount or you're going to have problems forever, seems to me.
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would reversing the upper arms side to side help any???
Or you could change the type of end. On my race cars, I only use rod ends. That way it doesn't matter if the upper control arm has a slight angle. The only downside is a little extra noise, but you hardly notice it. You can even put the seals on if you are worried about moisture and dust.
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OK---just to get it in here, the type of ends that you have on your upper arms are completely unacceptable for use the way you have them---they are only usable to keep the two bushing ends aligned perfectly and together adjusted to vary camber but in no way be used as yours are to set caster----like autotec said, if you use heim rod ends with the spherical bearings you can use them for a limited amount of adjustment, but heim ended a arms are noisy on street cars-----------
As I look at it they gave you a stack of four washers of varying thickness to adjust caster, and if a guy needed anything more than that he'd be trimming material off of the front of the welded tube and adding more washers/shims in back, allowing the upper arm to slide back for increased caster. The two threaded bushings are only for adjustment of camber, moving them in/out in exact equal amounts to vary your camber - you should have exactly the same amount of thread showing on both bushing bolts for a given wheel. Each front wheel is adjusted individually, without any tie to the other wheel (other than on paper), for caster and camber. The relative position of the two wheels, and the wheelbase, is determined by properly aligning the upper & lower A-arm mounts to the frame, to one another, and to the squared rear end mounts for the chassis to run straight and work smooth. If you've moved the lower A-arm it's almost certain that you need to move the upper an equal amount, unless they really bollixed up your whole IFS install. Just my $0.02, trying to put it in simple terms and cover all the details.
advice not needed
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Dave,
In the picture immediately above, the stack of washers that appears to be in excess of 1/2" in total height at the left end of the fixed upper mount is your caster adjustment. To adjust caster you pull the long bolt out of the A-arm, shift washers from the back side to the front side of the fixed pipe of the upper mount, shifting the entire A-arm forward by the thickness of the washer exchanged. If you don't have enough adjustment, either your upper A-arm mount is mis-placed on your frame, OR you will have to trim the FRONT of the fixed pipe and replace the amount you take out with an equal amount of washers. The total inside measurement of the fixed pipe portion plus the washers should be equal to the distance between the inside measurement of the upper A-arm bushings, snug fit, not tight. The threaded bushing rod ends are NOT for adjusting caster. They are for camber only, and are intended to be installed equal length. I suggest you call the guys at Ridetech if they made the IFS, and ask them.
Okkkkkkkkkkkk----are you ready for another alignment/suspension issue???????????
your wheels need more backspace to get the line drawn thru the upper and lower ball joint towards the center of the tire contact patch-----------
Or do you want me to get back to work on my own stuff?????????????
Good catch, I was thinking, "that sure is a clear shot from above" but it didnt register with me that the line is OUTSIDE of the tire completely
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Dave, I don't see at all how your explanation of caster adjustment can work, and it seems crystal clear to me that you have six big washers on the upper through bolt that would be used to shift the top of the A-arm back if you shifted them to the front. If you turn one rod end in and the other out you're going to create mis-alignment of the through bolt through the rod ends, and tend to impart a "twist" to the spindle as opposed to a "tilt" which is what caster is - the degrees that the spindle tilts back from true vertical. It's obvious that I'm not understanding your problem, or not understanding your explanation of what you're doing so I'm going to back away and wish you the best on your build. I'll not bother you further.
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My head is hurting just like Roger's.
It seems to me that "Caster is the angle between the upper and lower ball joint" CENTERLINES as Viewed from the side of the car. CAMBER is the angle as viewed from the front of the car. In the pictured suspension, moving the entire upper arm to the front or back using washers changes the Caster only. Screwing the threads in and out equal amounts on both threads changes the Camber only. Looking at a late model car with an SLA suspension, the same is true, there are shims instead of washers on the A-arm pivot shaft to change the caster. The pivot shaft moves in/out to adjust the Camber...the shaft is held via two big nuts and slots in the shaft. In a late model car, you dont bend the axis of the shaft....just like you dont bend the axis of your suspension by unequal length changes on the arm screws. Is I wrong? Thus, the axis of pivot for the top a-arm is parallel to the axis of pivot of the bottom arm. Changing the caster OR camber does NOT change the parallelism between the two shafts.
Regarding the wheel backspacing, most "knowledgeable" sources suggest that the line formed thru the two ball joints should point to a fore/aft line THRU the CENTER of the tire tread where it contacts the floor. I checked my TCI frame, this is true for it.
Maybe you guys now know why I bought a Hunter alignment system for doing chassis work!!!!!!!!!!!!
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what you aren't getting is that its not a Heidts front end you have and the twist on the ends of your a arms isn't acceptable---if you had swivel ( like a Heim) on there it would work
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I know I said above that I would not bother you further, but I'm going to give this one more shot. I believe that at the end of the day you will find that the IFS that you have is intended to be installed on your frame with the desired caster angle pre-set, and that your caster is not intended to be adjusted further. The description that you gave about turning one rod end in and the other out will put your rod ends out of alignment with one another in an increasing bind the more you offset the rod ends.
Let's put some numbers to it, assume that the upper rod ends are 1) 1/16" movement per turn in or out (1/16" pitch); 2) adjusted with eight threads showing on both rod ends, equally spaced out from the vehicle center line; and 3) the 5/8" through bolt fits smoothly through both rod ends at this balanced position with no binding at all, other than normal friction with the rubber inserts. Now we turn the forward rod end out four turns, moving it away from the vehicle center line 1/4", and at the same time we turn the rear rod end in four turns, moving it closer to vehicle center line by 1/4". The result is that the center point of the through bolt will be rotated in the horizontal plane, and the ball joint will shift back in an arc but the rod ends are now offset from one another 1/2", so the through bolt is going to have to be forced through the bushings if it will go at all. Now let's remove that through bolt and adjust the front out 8 turns, and the rear in 8 turns. You've again rotated the shaft, but now the rod ends are offset by a full inch!!
The only way to affect caster without binding is to trim the upper pipe portion to allow the A-Arm to shift fore or aft on the 5/8" through bolt.
You need to be talking to RideTech if they made your IFS, not Heidt's. Seems to me that someone's feeding you some bad basic information.
I have to agree with Jerry and RSpears on this one! Running those ends at different lengths from the ball joint only forces the end tube to cock and will cause binding and rapid wear of the bushings in the tubes. Whomever told you otherwise was WRONG!Quote:
Originally Posted by daveS53
I don't want to argue with you but this is a mistake thinking it's okay because it isn't. The whole top assembly (those 3 tubes) needs to be in complete alignment and straight. Use of the 2 ends at different lengths for camber adjustment creates a bind situation and I strongly urge you to review and reconsider the situation!
I thought I'd try to say it with a picture.. the twist you see in the red circles is wrong! this whole shaft assembly need to be straight and in alignment.
Jerry,Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
That link just takes you to the Heidts Home Page, and to get to the specific installation info you have to plug in what you're looking for. The info you're wanting to show may be there, but it's far back behind the curtain and we need the Wizard's permission to find it....
Heidts Hot Rod & Muscle Car Parts
Sorry, don't know why or how
Try going to the www.Heidts.com web site, across the top of page go to instructions, down on left side
Crossmember kits
1935-1940 ford
Control arms
tubular mustang upper a - arms
tubular coil over lower full a arms
or something like that
Here's the Heidt's Uppers, referenced in Jerry's post:Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
http://www.heidts.com/Content/Instructions/in-021.pdf
And the lower's:
http://www.heidts.com/Content/Instructions/in-103.pdf
These Heidt's A-Arms & cross shafts don't look anything like what you've posted. Maybe RideTech just copied the Heidt's geometry?
A picture is worth a thousand words!Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
.
it does look like the uppers are on the wrong sides. from the pic they look to have different lengths .
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Well, I've got to say that I'm surprised by what I read in item 7 of the instructions for the Heidt's Super Ride 2 - http://www.heidts.com/Content/Instructions/in-027.pdf
Indeed they say that caster is adjusted using the rod ends, which surprises me a lot. HOWEVER, they clearly state that when the system is installed at ride height it should have one degree of positive caster built in (rod ends equally spaced) AND that you're only looking for a maximum additional one to two degrees of adjustment for a total of two to three degrees positive. It sure looks like you've got too much cranked into yours with the amount of offset in those rod ends. Have you confirmed all of the measurements shown in the figures? Something's not right.
advice not needed
Start over???????????? do you mean go all the way back to seeing that the boards he used between the tires and rear frame section were the same thickness?????? or that the wheels didn't have any run out that effected that portion of this fiasco???
And it has been said bu others than me that the control arms could be on the wrong side?????????
This has been a zoo from the beginning and has progressed down the wrong y in the road at about every opurtunity to go the wrong direction-----------sometimes we need to back up a block or two before we get into second gear----------
The answer to solving this at this point is to build some new upper control arms---------assuming that the lower ball joint is at the correct/identical distance for wheel base-----------
if it was mine, I would remove that whole upper bracket (coil over/ upper control arm) and install a Heidts correctly angled for caster and anti dive-----------
Dave,
I went back and re-read your post #58. By cutting 0.520" off of the front of the lower A-arm mount you've totally destroyed the built in one degree of positive caster that was designed into the cross-member to upper A-arm mount. Shifting the 1/4" washer on top from the front to the back only added to the now extreme negative caster problem. In hindsight it seems pretty clear that your crossmember was installed improperly relative to the frame, and then the upper A-arm mounts were installed improperly, too. The frame probably should have been taken back to the guys at OZE when you first discovered the wheelbase problem, but that's water under the bridge and now that you've cut on it I'd think you own the problem. You're not going to pull 3/4" of mounting problems out with rod end adjustment. I'd say that you're headed towards cutting out the whole IFS assembly, trying to get it back to as-built in all respects or perhaps even ordering a new one from Heidt's (or whoever), and starting from scratch with the IFS install. If you're not 100% confident in your ability to follow the instructions to a T, it's time to cart it to someone with the expertise and get the front end installed right. A good shop might be able to salvage whats there, but I think you need more than a small square and a plumb bob to get this one fixed.
Best of luck getting it sorted out.
advice not needed.