Thread: 302 SBC or 302 SBF??

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Both the Boss 302 and Chevy 302 were developed to meet displacement requirements for Trans Am racing in the late 60s early 70s. As was the 304 AMC.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but I think there is a little confusion about 302's and 302's. The 302 Chevy and its competitor the Boss 302 have absolutly nothing what so ever in common with either the 5.0 Ford motor or the generac everyday Ford 302.

If you are going to compare the Chevy 302 to a Ford motor then it has to be the motor Ford brought to the dance to compete with the Chevy 302. Thats comparing apples to apples, any other comparision is like looking at apples to lemons there not even in the same catogory. And not only did the Chevy 302 have a short life span so did the Ford. Granted a Ford 302 did live on and was very succesful for Ford, but it has very little in common with the Boss 302 that should be the comparing motor.

Both of these motors won championships in competition against each other, both were a refreshing look at how a factory motor program could produce superior "STUFF". And at different places and times one or the other was better than the other. Kinda like life in a way.

Roland

The only major difference between the Boss 302 and the current 5.0's are the cylinder heads. The Boss 302 is basically a "Clevor".... Us Blue Oval types have been running Clevors since '69 when the Boss came out.... In the last few years both Ford and some of the aftermarket head builders have come out with some very nice Windsor heads that are almost equal in performance to the Clevor setups of years back... Most of the Ford "newbies" and a lot of us older types now just use the Windsor heads..... The Boss 302 block is available from your local Ford dealer, lots of good Cleveland heads around for cheap, and even some aluminum Aussie build Cleveland heads available.... So anyways, other the the cylinder heads and a few updates (some good, some bad) the SBF has changed little over the years. The original Boss 302, Boss 351, and ,most recently the Boss 429 can be reproduced quite easily with parts readily available from Ford and a couple aftermarket companies.... The Boss 302 never really died, just went into hiding.....

Originally Posted by Hombre259

Correct me if I am wrong here, but I think there is a little confusion about 302's and 302's. The 302 Chevy and its competitor the Boss 302 have absolutly nothing what so ever in common with either the 5.0 Ford motor or the generac everyday Ford 302.

If you are going to compare the Chevy 302 to a Ford motor then it has to be the motor Ford brought to the dance to compete with the Chevy 302. Thats comparing apples to apples, any other comparision is like looking at apples to lemons there not even in the same catogory. And not only did the Chevy 302 have a short life span so did the Ford. Granted a Ford 302 did live on and was very succesful for Ford, but it has very little in common with the Boss 302 that should be the comparing motor.

Both of these motors won championships in competition against each other, both were a refreshing look at how a factory motor program could produce superior "STUFF". And at different places and times one or the other was better than the other. Kinda like life in a way.

Roland

Great information Hombre. I agree with you totally 100%

Like I said, if you want some big power with 302 cubes, build a copy cat Boss or a Clevor..... they do make some great power at high rpm....just build the innards light and use good hardware....

Come on Dave the discission wasn't about building big power with 302 cubes. It was about which was best Chevy's 302---- Built for SCCA Trans Am racing, or Fords Boss 302 built for SCCA Trans Am racing. I say that because if you are going to compare Chevy's 302 to Fords 302 and be fair and objective in that comparison. Those are the two engines we are talking about. Not some generic grocery getter 302 but the engine built and designed by Ford to compete with the Chevy 302--- The Boss 302.

The only difference between a Boss 302 and the modern day 5.0 you say is the heads. Huuuuh? Thats like saying the only difference between a MK 48 Fragmention Grenade and a 1,000 megaton Nuclear Explosion is the amount of "BANG" they produce.

Roland

After going back and reading all of these post again I have come to a realization. No matter how long , hard, or passionate anyone talks about a subject like this most of us in the end are "NEVER" going to agree . There are Ford guys and there are Chevy guys Imagine the world were those two groups would ever get along, and agree on anything.

Its not just cars either guys. Try starting a discussion about which was the best battle weapon, the M1 Garand or the AK 47. All you need to do is breach that subject set back and watch the fur fly.

Hell I'm just one guy and I seldom agree with myself, now thats bad. My little Model A has over the years had 11 different engines in it. Some Fords a sprinkling of Chevys and now it has its third Hemi. To this day I can't agree which of those was best. Yesterday i thought it was the old Red Ram Dodge Hemi i had in it back in 1978, the day before that I was sure and certain that the 454 BBC from 1985 was the best. Tomorrow who know's. I guess we are just supposed to not agree even with our selves sometimes.

Roland

Originally Posted by Hombre259

After going back and reading all of these post again I have come to a realization. No matter how long , hard, or passionate anyone talks about a subject like this most of us in the end are "NEVER" going to agree . There are Ford guys and there are Chevy guys Imagine the world were those two groups would ever get along, and agree on anything.

. I guess we are just supposed to not agree even with our selves sometimes.

Roland

Your absolutely right and we should be gratefull for the choices otherwise trans am racing would be boring, and if there were just cameros and no mustangs how boring would that be. Then it would be who had the best same old same old, no I'm for diversity and choice. I like mopar, blue oval and the bow ties, but I somehow always end up with a blue oval!

I have no brand loyalty or favorite when it comes to cars. I have an 70 AMC AMX, 68 Ford Mustang, 71 Dodge Challenger, and a 72 Chevy Chevelle. Plus a couple Studebakers.

I also have an M1 Garand and an AK 47.

Life would get pretty boring if you only buy one type of anything.

Originally Posted by Hombre259

The only difference between a Boss 302 and the modern day 5.0 you say is the heads. Huuuuh?

Roland

Yeah, about the only differences were the heads and a 4 bolt block.... My point was, not a big deal. Us Ford guys been duplicating them for years....Except I use the older blocks and splayed caps.... Nothing that can't be done quite easily....

I'm not bad mouthing the chebbies, I just prefer the Fords cuz it's fun beating the excepted combinations with something different.... I've also been known to run a MoPar or two...

The Boss 302 was nothing exotic.....Just good, solid basic engineering by some of the guys in the back room at Livonia..... The chebbie 302 was basically the same, small stroke, big bore, good heads. Both engines work best from 5500 to 8500 rpm---neither have a long life expectancy at this operating range... But, they're both easy and relatively inexpensive to copy if you're not a "numbers correct" type....

302 Ford has been Found On the Road Dead far more than 302 Chevy. Chevy I believe has an extra head bolt. I fly Chevy. But Ford also has a fine product there also IMO. It goes to personal preference IMO.

Kitz

Originally Posted by kitz

302 Ford has been Found On the Road Dead far more than 302 Chevy. Chevy I believe has an extra head bolt. I fly Chevy. But Ford also has a fine product there also IMO. It goes to personal preference IMO.

Kitz

Perhaps because there's about 2 or 3 gazillion more 302 Fords built over the years????????

Any engine will react positively to basic Hot Rodding.... Improve the flow charachteristics of the heads, proper quench and squish, tight tolerances on machining, and a blue-printed assembly. Add the right cam to sequence the events correctly and a hot enough spark to fire it and it'll go fast....

Chevy in '69 once again "pulled the plug" on racing in most any venue...thus the Trans-Am/SCCA winning Camaro Z-28 teams of '67-68 fame lost factory backing...and the winningnest driver for the Camaro, Bruce Mclaren went to AMX.
The Chevy 302's were awesome and with some tweaking were high revving and able to withstand the strain of long distance endurance racing....something Ford 302's weren't able to do with a lot of success until the advent of the Boss 302.
Chevy management always had a love/hate relationship with racing in the late '50's thru the late '60's while Ford embraced the "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday" school of thought, Thus it's embracing of Shelby, and numerous Nascar teams as well as other racing venues in the '60's and early 70's.

Fords or Chevys....??? If it were me and I could find a decent '67/68 Z-28 block I'd go with it if I was building a performance type car like a Cheetah...yet the late model 5.0 Ford can be made into quite a performer also.


You'll never convince a "Ford guy" that a Chevy is better just like you'll never convince a "Chevy guy" a Ford is better.

My belief is that back in the day the Chevy 302(Z-28) was hands down the best sb block to hot rod, built right it would rev to 7,000+ and was capable of a strong 325 to 350hp..according to what I've read the Trans-Am Z-28's often were pushing 350+hp and ran hard all day long up and down the rpm range...

you guys might want to check some of the other SCCA race winners from the 60's and 70's, not just the Trans Am class..... Shelby's near dominated in A and B production...and again it's probably not necessary to say what happened when Ford took the GT-40's to LeMans.... Chebbie brought out the Cheetah in a feeble attempt to catch the Cobra's....the Cheetah was fast, but just never had the handling that the Cobra's did.

The Z-28 was a good car, but to listen to folks talk about it you'd think it was never beaten...It was successful for 2 years in one class, then faded away... If Chebbie's 302 was so successful, why was it only a production item for such a brief time when the Ford 302 stayed in production for decades???? Money talks and BS walks...Looks like Ford made the money, guess we know where that left chebbie.......

Ain't nobody gonna win this pissin' contest!