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Thread: Another Build Thread - My '32
          
   
   

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  1. #76
    stovens's Avatar
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    Hey Denny you have me intrigued enough to research this gyro device. Here is a link to and article describing how it works and results of tests done by police and sheriffs departments. That gyro is pretty cool. My truck is running leaf springs front and back too.
    http://arch.torranceca.gov/archivedn...F/00000561.pdf
    NTFDAY and DennyW like this.
    " "No matter where you go, there you are!" Steve.

  2. #77
    DennyW is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by stovens View Post
    Hey Denny you have me intrigued enough to research this gyro device. Here is a link to and article describing how it works and results of tests done by police and sheriffs departments. That gyro is pretty cool. My truck is running leaf springs front and back too.
    http://arch.torranceca.gov/archivedn...F/00000561.pdf
    Well, way back in my early days, I heard of this thing, and back then it was an expensive device. I always kept an eye out to maybe pickup a used one off of a cop car. Never happened. Then, this one big swap meet I went to north of me, I was walking checking out all the goodies, and way way in the back, by the corn field, there was this guy who had a lot of old stuff. I happened to see this box type deal sitting on the ground... Walked over, and holey crap, there it was... I negotiated price, and got it for 25 bucks... Now, does this thing really work ? Well, to begin with, it weighs about 70lbs or so, I haven't actually weighed it though... I had a 1976 T bird at the time. I thought, ok, I'll try it out on a curve at say 60 miles an hour. Without it, of course you could feel the G force. So, I put it lose in the trunk, over the rear axle. I did the same curve, and it was like I was on a straight road, no curve at all. So I know it works quit well...
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  3. #78
    J. Robinson's Avatar
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    Jerry - My first experience using torsion bars was almost by accident. I was building a C-Cab on a T-bucket style frame back in '75. I had a '35 Ford axle given to me, but no spring or wishbone. My cousin was junking an old Volkswagen, so I snatched the rear torsion bars and arms out of it and made them work. I and everyone else were amazed at how WELL it worked! Only problem was I mounted them through the front crossmember inboard of the frame rails (see below) and I had a hard time finding a radiator to fit between them. Several years later I built another C-Cab and I wanted to use torsion bars again. This time I used Nissan pickup bars mounted INSIDE the frame tubes. The only visible parts were the arms which doubled as friction shocks.(2nd pic) It made a super clean looking front end. This one worked so well and looked so cool that I ended up duplicating it three more times for friends/customers!

    When I built my coupe there was no question what I wanted for front suspension - it had to be torsion bars.(posted above) This time I couldn't put them inside the frame rails; they had to go inboard, but they are below the front crossmember and don't conflict with the radiator fitment. Also, they are adjustable with the turn of a bolt so I can raise or lower the front ride height. So far I have been lucky with guessing at arm length and all of them have produced a good ride.

    I have used coil springs in the rear of all these cars and my coupe has NASCAR style weight-jackers (wedge bolts) so I can raise or lower the rear with a 1/2 inch drive ratchet. I am still pondering what kind of rear suspension I will use in this Deuce. Maybe cross-torsion bars? Or I might just go with coil-overs. Time will tell.

    DennyW - I haven't seen one of those in years. I always wondered if they really worked. What a bargain - if I ever ran across one for $25 I'd jump on it, too.
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    Jim

    Racing! - Because football, basketball, baseball, and golf require only ONE BALL!

  4. #79
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    Cool Jim, and score Denny!
    " "No matter where you go, there you are!" Steve.

  5. #80
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    To fabricate the radius rod brackets for the frame I used 1/4 wall x 1 1/2 inch angle iron. I've used this same material on several frames over the years. Angle iron is roll-forged steel, so it's pretty tough stuff. The real advantage is it gives a wide base for welding on the bottom of the frame rail. I drill the necessary holes first, then cut and shape the brackets. The picture is pretty self-explanatory.

    To facilitate installing the front end, I rolled the frame upside down. I bolted the brackets to the radius rods and positioned the axle, also inverted, centered on the front crossmember. I put a short piece of 2 x 4 lumber in the crossmember to space the axle off the frame at its approximate position where it will be when the car is actually rolling. I used a steel tape rule to center the axle and locate the position of the radius rod brackets. To square the axle with the centerline of the car, I measure from the axle ends to the center of the rear crossmember. if necessary, I move and re-clamp the brackets to get them located correctly. When the two dimensions are the same, the axle is square with the centerline of the frame. Once again, I use my motto "measure ten times, weld once".

    With the axle positioned correctly, the next step is to fabricate the parts and pieces to mount the torsion bars. Stay tuned...
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    Jim

    Racing! - Because football, basketball, baseball, and golf require only ONE BALL!

  6. #81
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    Well, I was off the Deuce project for a few days while I was racing in Electrathon...

    With the axle mocked up on the front of the frame and the radius rod brackets welded in place, the next step is to begin fabricating the bracketry for the torsion bars. The bars I am using came from a Nissan Hardbody pickup. I have my local salvage yard take these out for me along with the splined parts at each end. On the Nissan pickup there is a forged arm that bolts to the lower control arm and an adjuster in the crossmember at the rear of the bar. In this application, however, I am using the forged arm as the rear anchor and fabricating the forward torsion arm. To adjust ride height on this car I will need to remove the torsion arm, rotate it one or two splines, and reinstall it. Both of my C-Cabs were set up this way and once I had the ride height where I wanted it, I never moved them again. Therefore, I'm not going to all the trouble of building adjustable anchors.

    OK, the first thing is to disassemble the torsion bar parts and remove the road grime. I used the wire wheel on my grinder to clean the splines. Notice on one end of the torsion bars they are marked R and L and are stamped with arrows that show which way they are supposed to be tensioned.

    The original Nissan adjuster is a rather large piece, but all I need is the splined end of it and the snap-ring that keeps it in place. The arm and threaded adjuster are discarded. I measured 3 inches from the end and cut it on my chop-saw.

    To fabricate the arms, I am using 3/8 x 2 1/2 flat bar. I cut the big hole where the splined sleeve will be welded with a hole saw in my drill press. Then mark the shape and cut the arms out with my oxy-acetylene torch. After removing the slag and dross, I clamp them together, drill the 1/2 inch shackle hole, and then grind... and grind... and grind them to final shape.
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    Jim

    Racing! - Because football, basketball, baseball, and golf require only ONE BALL!

  7. #82
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    When welding the splined sleeves into the fabricated arms, they must be indexed correctly in relation to the anchors at the opposite end. To do this, I set the torsion bars up on a flat surface, side by side, with the parts exactly opposite each other. Another way of putting it, they are mirror images of each other. With everything squared up (using a combination square), the arms and sleeves can be tacked together.

    The inside of the sleeve does not have splines all the way through. It is actually larger inside where the splines end, so there needs to be something to keep the torsion bar from sliding all the way through and disengaging from the splines. I found that 1 inch EMT conduit is exactly the right diameter to slip into the spline sleeve. I measured the length from the end of the spline to the end of the sleeve (15/16") and cut pieces of conduit to fit. Dropped into the end of the sleeve, the conduit rests on the splines. All there is to do then is finish welding the sleeve, arm, and conduit together. I cranked up the amps on my welder to put the sleeves and arms together, then turned it back down to weld the conduit spacers in. When finished welding, I ground off the lumps where I stopped and started the welds, but was careful not to grind away too much. These welds are under constant stress when the car is finished.
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    Jim

    Racing! - Because football, basketball, baseball, and golf require only ONE BALL!

  8. #83
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    To finish off the torsion arms, they need mounts that hold them in place, but allows them to pivot while carrying the weight of the front end of the car. The splined sleeves measure just under 1 5/8 inch outside diameter. As it turns out, common 1 1/2 inch pipe is right at 1 5/8 inch inside diameter. I cut two pieces at the correct length to slip over the splined sleeves and leave the snap-ring groove exposed (in this case 1 3/4 inches long).

    The next hurdle is to make the anchors that will hold the rear of the torsion bars in place. When I built my coupe I built the frame for it and I mounted the torsion bars before I built the X-member. In this case I'm using a '32 frame I bought from Clarke Hot Rods. It has a stock style '32 X-member and it interferes with the torsion bars. I can't shorten the bars, so I had to clearance the boxing plate where it bends up onto the X-member. I did this with a 1 5/8 inch hole saw.

    I fabricated the anchor plates from some 1/4 x 4 inch flat stock. I cut them and ground the corners so they would just slip into the frame channel. After marking the location of the clearanced area of the frame on the plates, I hole-sawed through them with 1 3/8 inch hole saw. In the picture, you can see the plates mocked up in the frame with the torsion bars also mocked up in place and the rear anchors placed to check for fit. Once again everything goes back on the table to trim and index the plates for trimming and welding. Also notice the washer welded over the backside of the anchor so the torsion bar can't slip through.
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    Jim

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  9. #84
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    Pretty Slick setup Jim.
    Thanks for sharing the build and the pics.

  10. #85
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    Thank you 34-40. My pleasure. Writing this thread helps keep me on task. Lots more to come...

    OK, so the complicated pieces are made; now I need to put some things together. I begin by mocking up all the pieces in their intended locations. The anchors slip into the frame rails (see pics below) behind the boxing plates with the torsion bars seated in the splines. At the front I put the torsion arms on the splines in a horizontal position and rest them both on a piece of thin aluminum angle. This gives the arms 1/16 inch clearance so they will not contact the frame rails and also allows me to move them around some while I'm getting everything in place. Next, I cut two short pieces of 1 1/2 inch heavy wall angle iron; these are for mounting the front pivots to the frame. With everything in place and measured to assure both sides are the same, I tack weld the rear anchors and front pivots in place.

    With the main pieces tacked in place so they won't move, it's time to make the torsion arm brackets. The brackets are made from the same 3/8 inch thick material that I made the torsion arms from. No big description is necessary here; just cut and drill - the pic is self-explanatory.
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    Jim

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  11. #86
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    Well, the pictures loaded in reverse order below, so look from the bottom up...

    We're getting close to having the front end "suspended" now. The next item of business is to locate and weld the torsion arm brackets onto the batwings. Before I can locate them, however, I need to put the torsion arms in their supposed final positions. I slip the arms off the splines, rotate them 2 or 3 splines, and slip them back on. Now, with everything in place and centered I can hold the brackets in place and mark their locations. I removed the axle to my work table to weld the brackets on. I did a little tweaking to get both sides identical (remember I marked them by "calibrated eyeball"). The pics show one clamped in place and one tack-welded. After confirming their locations, I cranked the amps up and welded both solidly in place. These have to be very solid - the entire front half of the car is carried by these two brackets.

    The last pieces to connect everything are a pair of shackles. I made these from 1/4 x 1 inch flat stock. I am using ordinary 1/2 inch bolts and nuts for assembly now, but these will be replaced by shoulder bolts and self-locking nuts in final assembly.
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    Jim

    Racing! - Because football, basketball, baseball, and golf require only ONE BALL!

  12. #87
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    OK, here it is all back together. Remember, it's upside down. I removed the 2 x 4 that the axle has been resting on and installed the shackles. The axle is now being supported by the torsion bars. Before I finish weld everything, flip this over, and install the spindles and wheels, I have one more piece to fabricate! (Sheesh! Is this torsion bar stuff a never-ending project or what??) Stay tuned...
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    Last edited by J. Robinson; 12-23-2016 at 07:30 AM.
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    Jim

    Racing! - Because football, basketball, baseball, and golf require only ONE BALL!

  13. #88
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    Very nice work! I wonder if a guy could use those torsion bars and make a sway bar for a rear air ride suspension?
    Ryan
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  14. #89
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    I suppose you could. They are only about 34 inches long, though, so that could be an issue if you are trying to reach across a wide frame. The splines are the same on both ends, so whatever you use on one end you could duplicate for the opposite end.
    Jim

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  15. #90
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    The last piece I need to finalize this front suspension is a panhard bar. The torsion bars do not keep "stretch tension" or preload on the shackles like a leaf spring does, so some other means of keeping the axle centered is required. Also, I plan to cross steer this car, so some means of positive centering would be required anyway. I will keep the bar fairly short in this application for two reasons. First, and most importantly, the attachment points need to be located so that the torsion arms can be removed/replaced without interference and, secondly, so that it's not readily visible when the car is finished. The common practice of panhard bar installation is to keep the bar as long as possible so it has the least geometric influence on the suspension as it moves up and down. I can get away with a short bar here because front end travel is fairly limited on this type of car.

    OK, the first task is to fabricate the bracketry needed for this installation. The bracket for the beam axle is simply a piece of 1/4 inch plate with a 1/2 inch hole. The (grade 8) bolt will be inserted through the hole and welded in place. This piece is then welded to the back side of the axle near the left frame rail, but inboard far enough to allow torsion arm removal.

    The bracket for the frame will attach to the right side of the front crossmember just inboard of the torsion arm. It is designed to reach down far enough so that the panhard bar will be parallel to the ground. Notice it has two holes - that is so, if I ever need to, I can raise the front end and still keep the panhard bar parallel to the ground. This bracket is also made from 1/4 inch plate and the little gusset pieces are made so that it will fit straight on the tapered end of the crossmember. I welded the gusset pieces onto the bracket first and then tacked the whole piece in place.

    With the brackets in place I then center the axle, measure the spread between the brackets, and fabricate the bar. I use the same process for fab'ing the bar as I did the front radius rods; thread inserts welded into the ends of appropriate length tubing.

    OK, with all the pieces in place I can now blow this apart and finalize the welding. When that is done I will roll it over and move on to the rear suspension.
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    Jim

    Racing! - Because football, basketball, baseball, and golf require only ONE BALL!

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