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Thread: 1937 Dodge coupe
          
   
   

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easyrider View Post
    I am concerned about my ability to get it running in another body, because of the electronics, about which I am clueless.
    If you purchase a car that has been hit in the rear or side and is still running, you can use every piece of the wiring, the computer and everything else electrical from that donor and transfer it to your Dodge, You won't really have to know anything, just remove all of it from the donor and place it into your car. You would want to use the dash and steering column, shifter, etc. from the donor to make it all work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easyrider View Post
    Another issue, is track width, which is 63". Can you make up for the extra track width with different rims, ie rims with different offset? As always, opinions are appreciated...
    Glen
    Sure you can, but be aware that you change the scrub radius when you do that. You should google scrub radius and learn the ins and outs of changing it. Moving to a wheel with a deeper inside bowl will increase the negative scrub radius, not necessarily a good thing. You also run the risk of the wheel rim contacting the upper or lower ball joints, not a good thing. Narrowing the control arms or re-positioning the inner mounts on the frame to make the tires/wheels fit into the fender cavity will change the entire front suspension geometry including instant center and roll center and you have no idea how the car will react. My approach might be to use whatever IFS I'd want to use and if it's too wide, build some fender flares onto the car or space the fenders out a little, leaving the suspension and steering geometry alone.

    Bottom line: You know for a fact that a Chrysler 300 turned, cornered and braked very well and had excellent transient response. Use it as is, with the factory wheels and tires. Current NADA value of a 2005 300C, with hemi, is $5,700. Shop for one with some body damage and you might be into the whole car for $3,500. You would then have EVERYTHING that you would need to complete the coupe. Stack all the sheet metal, glass and unused interior pieces together and sell them on craigslist at the end of the project to recoup some of the cost of the donor. Bada-bing, bada-boom.

    .
    Last edited by techinspector1; 07-12-2015 at 01:39 PM.
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  2. #32
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    Yes, you can compensate for track width with wheels offest. ( within reason of course ).. Grafting one chassis to another isn't for the faint of heart.

    In many ways, installing a M2 kit is so much easier. Especially when you go to re-attach the sheet metal!!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
    If you purchase a car that has been hit in the rear or side and is still running, you can use every piece of the wiring, the computer and everything else electrical from that donor and transfer it to your Dodge, You won't really have to know anything, just remove all of it from the donor and place it into your car. You would want to use the dash and steering column, shifter, etc. from the donor to make it all work.


    Sure you can, but be aware that you change the scrub radius when you do that. You should google scrub radius and learn the ins and outs of changing it. Moving to a wheel with a deeper inside bowl will increase the negative scrub radius, not necessarily a good thing. You also run the risk of the wheel rim contacting the upper or lower ball joints, not a good thing. Narrowing the control arms or re-positioning the inner mounts on the frame to make the tires/wheels fit into the fender cavity will change the entire front suspension geometry including instant center and roll center and you have no idea how the car will react. My approach might be to use whatever IFS I'd want to use and if it's too wide, build some fender flares onto the car or space the fenders out a little, leaving the suspension and steering geometry alone.

    Bottom line: You know for a fact that a Chrysler 300 turned, cornered and braked very well and had excellent transient response. Use it as is, with the factory wheels and tires. Current NADA value of a 2005 300C, with hemi, is $5,700. Shop for one with some body damage and you might be into the whole car for $3,500. You would then have EVERYTHING that you would need to complete the coupe. Stack all the sheet metal, glass and unused interior pieces together and sell them on craigslist at the end of the project to recoup some of the cost of the donor. Bada-bing, bada-boom.

    .
    I suspected that there was more to it than meets the eye. But, fender flares...how hard can that be? Hmmm.
    As for my engine/suspension conundrum, I have been pondering a few options. There is a running 331 Hemi for sale on the local online classifieds, for $1400, and a 340 for $2000. Either one would have a fair amount of "cool" factor, but neither would touch a modern hemi for drivability.
    As for a frame graft not being for the faint of heart, I'm not afraid of it. It's just a welding job, and I've been doing stuff like this (sort of) all my life. I'll likely hire a licensed welder do the final welds, but I'm pretty confident that I can get it cut and tacked together without too much heartache. Actually, I'm looking forward to it.

  4. #34
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    Okay, I have done some looking online, and a Chrysler 300, and the like, appear to have big tall Macpherson strut suspension, the top of which fastens to the inner fender. It looks to me like it would be pretty challenging to incorporate that into a fat fender front end. Can you straighten me out on this, techinspector? I am really liking the concept, but am struggling to visualise how the installation wouldd work .

  5. #35
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    I was unaware that the 300C used a strut front suspension. Obviously, the struts would want to occupy the space where the front fenders are on your coupe, so that is out of the question. I was just looking for other donors that used the 5.7 hemi (345 cubic inches) and found that beginning in 2003, the Dodge 1500, 2500 and 3500 pickup trucks used it. The front suspension on those trucks is the much more desirable upper and lower control arm arrangement, so it looks like that truck, in a 2-wheel drive mode, might be where I would go for a donor. It was also used in large Chrysler sedans (struts), Grand Cherokee (struts), and Durango. I have not investigated the front suspension on these other models, other than the Dakota. The link below will take you to Dakota clip and frame swaps. There are swap kits to install the 5.7 hemi into the Dakota, if that frame/clip swap would appeal to you. It certainly would appeal to me. One of the fellows who used to post here did a Dakota frame swap into a '47 International pickup. Although the '91-'96 (first series) Dakota was available with a 318 stock (which would also lend itself to a stroked 360 at 408 cubic inches), this fellow opted for a 350 Chevy swap into the Dakota front end.

    With donor offerings such as this, with the late model hemi and electronic engine and transmission controls all in place and engineered by the factory, I would have little interest in using an early hemi such as the 331, 354 or 392. It would cost you far more to build just the early motor than you could buy a whole truck for and you could still attach HEMI badges to the coupe. Add the fact that the early hemi motor alone weighs about 750 lbs and the appeal of a modern hemi increases considerably. It's hard to pin down the actual weight of the modern hemi, but an estimate of 500 lbs would be reasonable, with some sources claiming 400 and change.
    http://itsme.website/wp-content/uplo...specs-Ypat.jpg

    Here is some info about clip swaps/frame swaps that I wrote on another forum. You may pick up some ideas or it may foster more questions, always a good thing.
    http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Frame_swaps

    I just realized that I have already posted some of this stuff at the beginning of this thread. Please excuse the redundancy (old fart).

    .
    Last edited by techinspector1; 07-14-2015 at 08:29 AM.
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  6. #36
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    No worries, techinspector, old farts get a free pass once in a while.
    We did indeed discuss the Dakota frame earlier in the thread, and someone made the comment that "did I really want to drive a Dakota, with a coupe body?", and he makes a point. It would be excellent, as you pointed out a bit earlier, to have all of the really good features of the 300. I looked at a Challenger today, same chassis, and it does indeed have the damn strut suspension. It would be interesting to have one side by side with my coupe, and see if there was any way to support the top end of that strut. If it could be done, without disrupting the look of the fat fenders, it would be great! The strut suspension works dandy, or at least the ones in my various Caddy's sure did. I'll have to think about it. As for the Ram 1500, it's going to be hard to find a 2 wheel drive one up here (Canada), most are 4wd. It would be interesting to see how a 2wd Ram rides. Don't want no lumber wagon... I still like the idea of the "Volare" clip/frame swap, if for no other reason than the adjustable ride height. If, as you mentioned, there is a kit to swap a Dakota 318 for a hemi, then perhaps it would work for the "Volare" (Cordoba) as well. The motor mounts would be nothing, but I assume that you would require some sort of adapter for the tranny. Oh, wait, if the tranny came with the donor 300/Ram/Charger/whatever, there ya go, Bob is your uncle. Keep brainstorming, I am really liking where this is going, but I need the advice...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
    the Dodge 1500, 2500 and 3500 pickup trucks used it. The front suspension on those trucks is the much more desirable upper and lower control arm arrangement, so it looks like that truck, in a 2-wheel drive mode, might be where I would go for a donor..

    .
    Guess what! Barely had I finished typing the previous post, and the comment about the scarcity of 2wd trucks here in western Canada, when I was cruising the local online classifieds, and found for sale a 2006 Ram 1500 2 wheel drive, insurance write off (salvage) with 80,000 kilometres (48,000 miles) with 5.7 litre hemi. He says he'll sell me everything I need for around $2,000. I think this was meant to be. Going to look at it this week.
    ted dehaan, 34_40 and 40FordDeluxe like this.

  8. #38
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    Here's a company that builds a crossmember setup using '87-96 Dakota suspension parts for mid-50's & 60's pickups. They do amazing work! The kit may be adaptable to your chassis if your heart is set on using all Mopar. I think the width between wheel mount surfaces is around 59-60". Industrial Chassis Inc.

    Another thought might be the front suspension from '82-92 or so Jaguar XJ6. It's a K-member that could be bolted or welded on, has disc brakes, rack & pinion steering, etc. It's also around 59-60" wide.

    Obviously, both of these would use your original chassis but should be able to accomodate a variety of engine choices.
    "It is not much good thinking of a thing unless you think it out." - H.G. Wells

  9. #39
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    Crap! I did a bit of research last night after finding the ram 1500 .The tracking width on those is 68-69.5"! i think that is probably too wide to be able to tweek with fender flares. I guess it's back to the Volare Clip, and see if I can fit the hemi into it .

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easyrider View Post
    Crap! I did a bit of research last night after finding the ram 1500 .The tracking width on those is 68-69.5"! i think that is probably too wide to be able to tweek with fender flares. I guess it's back to the Volare Clip, and see if I can fit the hemi into it .
    Use a Dakota. Swap in a hemi. '91-'96 came with a V8 and the track was narrow enough to fit the '37.
    Gen I Dakota, 60.7" front and 59.5" rear.
    You made a comment somewhere back there that you didn't want a lumber wagon ride. The lumber wagon ride comes from the springs and you can always swap springs for whatever ride you want. These guys will have any spring you could possibly need.
    https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/

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  11. #41
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    This question is off topic but it's my thread...lol...I have found a 2006 Dodge Charger SRT8 with a 6.1 litre hemi engine, at the local insurance salvage auction next week. Does anyone have an opinion whether there is any problem putting this thing in my coupe? If my research is correct, the outside dimensions of the 6.1 are almost the identical the 5.7. I have a guy who sent me a link to some pics of a 37 that he built, with the 5.7,and it is tight, but looks good. The 6.1 has 450 hp, that should be sufficient!
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  12. #42
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    That sounds like a good plan to me!
    Ryan
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  13. #43
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    Hi, guys. I'm back, life having got in the road of my project for a while.
    While I was busy doing other things, I had time to think about my project, though. I had a bit of a brain wave...my wife owns a 1985 Lincoln Continental, a lovely car in its day, but the mice are in it, and there are a number of issues with power train. I did a bit of research, and lo and behold, the track width of the Lincoln is almost identical to my coupe!!! I just measured it up, and the measurement from outside tire sidewall to outside tire sidewall, is within 1/2", both front and back!!! Wait, it gets better (I think). The Mark 7 series of Lincolns had four wheel air suspension. The front end is (aparently) the same as a Cougar or T-bird, ie similar a Mustang front end, adapted to air bags. The rear end is not independant, it has a normal looking differential, apart from some brackets and braces to accomodate the air bag suspension. I am not knowledgeable enough yet to know if it is the ubiquitous Ford 9", but it probably is.
    The only problem I see, is that both front and back suspension have struts. Because of the air bag set up, though, the struts are just shock absorbers, and top component of the steering, they are not weight bearing, the way the Dodge ones are. Therefore, I think that perhaps I can make them work, certainly on the back, where I can hide the struts, and necessary bracing, in the trunk. As for the front, I am medium hopeful that I can devise something, and hide it under the fender. I might have to shorten the strut to make it work.
    Does anyone see issues here? The Continental was one of the nicest riding cars of its time. Front and rear sway bars kept the handling from being too mushy.
    My main concern here is my wife. She has had her heart set on (me) fixing her old car up, but she says that she will let me chop it up, if i really want to. But you know how these things go...the first time she comes to the shop and sees her car in pieces, I may be sleeping alone for a while. Happy wife, happy life...think it's worth it???

  14. #44
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    You can chop up her "baby" but only if you really want to? Those old Town Cars are real cheap. And there's a reason most of them are rolling around looking like they've got lowering blocks in back - the "air bag" system sucks big time, and is just about impossible to repair point by point. I'm pretty sure that the differential in the '85 and up is the Ford 8.8", which is a carrier type with rear cover vs the pumpkin type third member on the 9".

    I'd shop for one on your local CraigsList, but run it by her before you hand over any money to be sure how she feels. Cold nights sleeping alone, unless you've got a dog.....or two.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rspears View Post
    You can chop up her "baby" but only if you really want to? Those old Town Cars are real cheap. And there's a reason most of them are rolling around looking like they've got lowering blocks in back - the "air bag" system sucks big time, and is just about impossible to repair point by point. I'm pretty sure that the differential in the '85 and up is the Ford 8.8", which is a carrier type with rear cover vs the pumpkin type third member on the 9".

    I'd shop for one on your local CraigsList, but run it by her before you hand over any money to be sure how she feels. Cold nights sleeping alone, unless you've got a dog.....or two.
    Ya, I hear ya, rspears. It is cold sometimes, that's why I bring it up.
    As for the Town cars, that's not what this is. Town car has wider track width, 63", IIRC, while the Continental, which I have, is 58 1/2". Continentals are a much rarer bird, there weren't that many built.
    I have some limited experience with the air system on these, and while it is problematic, I am pretty sure some of the ass-ache will go away, when I take out all of the automatic self levelling stuff. Then, I don't see how it can be much different from any other street rod type air suspension. Four air bags, with solonoids, some plastic air line, and some sort of compressor/pressure tank. If I am wrong about any of this, by all means, say so. I am asking your advice for a reason...
    I am not going to chop up the Lincoln for a few days. I put a bid in on an "05 Chrysler 300 with hail damage, they open the bids next week. It has only 106,000 kms on it (around 60,000 miles), and looks pristine, other than the hail divots. It will be the engine/tranny donor. If I get the tender, I would like to get it home and have a real good look before I violate the Bride's car, which is really just a suspension donor,
    For now, I should have the body off the coupe today. If I can get a decent air compressor this weekend, I'm set. Bought a sand blaster yesterday, just about ready to start measuring up and cleaning up the frame.
    Last edited by Easyrider; 08-29-2015 at 12:28 PM.

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