Welcome to Club Hot Rod!  The premier site for everything to do with Hot Rod, Customs, Low Riders, Rat Rods, and more. 

  •  » Members from all over the US and the world!
  •  » Help from all over the world for your questions
  •  » Build logs for you and all members
  •  » Blogs
  •  » Image Gallery
  •  » Many thousands of members and hundreds of thousands of posts! 

YES! I want to register an account for free right now!  p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show

 

Thread: 4 Bar, Triangulated or parallel
          
   
   

Reply To Thread
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Stu Cool's Avatar
    Stu Cool is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Olivehurst, CA
    Car Year, Make, Model: '53 Studebaker Custom w/LS1
    Posts
    1,900

    4 Bar, Triangulated or parallel

     



    I want to put an Air Ride suspension in the back of my 53 Studebaker. (eventually in the front too) I am looking at the packages from Air Ride and they offer both triangulated and parallel 4 bar systems. I'd llike to hear experiences and advantages or disadvantages of both designs, also any alternatives to the Air Ride brand. I will need to hire the installation work as this level of fabrication is beyond me. My goals are ride height adjustment with decent ride and handling, along with being able to control the rear axle under acceleration.

    thanks

    Pat
    Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!

  2. #2
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Madison
    Car Year, Make, Model: '67 Ranchero, '57 Chevy, '82 Camaro,
    Posts
    21,160

    I guess on a cruiser I prefer the triangulated. Main reasons are that they are extremely stable and smooth handling, will tolerate a considerable amount of horsepower, and because of their configuration totally eliminate the need for a panhard bar (yuck) or watts linkage (way better). I've built them both ways, in 90% of the cars I've seen a triangulated is by far the better choice.....JMO
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
    Carroll Shelby

    Learning must be difficult for those who already know it all!!!!

  3. #3
    Itoldyouso's Avatar
    Itoldyouso is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    fort myers
    Car Year, Make, Model: '27 ford/'39 dodge/ '23 t
    Posts
    11,033

    Pat: Judging by the workmanship on your Stude, I don't think much is beyond your fabrication abilities. What is probably making you leary is that this sort of technology is a little foreign to you, and to me too. But I will try to get you this info when my kid comes home from work. He has done quite a few bagged cars and trucks, and knows the ins and outs of what makes one work better than another.
    As I have posted before, his latest bagged car is his '29, and the one before that is his S10. When I look at the suspension on them it really is only slightly different from conventional springs, except that you are using airbags and the related pumps etc to control the ride. You also have to allow for additional travel as you will be able to dump the car much lower.

    When he gets home I'll ask him some of these points for you and post what he says. Here are the two I mentioned below.

    Don
    Attached Images

  4. #4
    Bob Parmenter's Avatar
    Bob Parmenter is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Salado
    Car Year, Make, Model: 32, 40 Fords,
    Posts
    10,844

    In the absence of any other considerations I'd say pretty much the same as Dave has. I think the triangulated setup has an advantage in traversing uneven pavement (visualize one end of the axle going up while the other maintains or drops), less "bind" on the upper arms (parallel 4 bar guys will likely deny they've ever experienced this, but I would suggest that's because they have no immediate comparative to judge against).

    That being said, exhaust routing with triangulated arms becomes more of a challenge, and the bulk and heat vulnerability of air bags adds to that. If you've got enough "real estate" I'd vote for triangulated, otherwise the parallel system, complete with panhard bar may make for easier/better packaging of all your component needs.
    Your Uncle Bob, Senior Geezer Curmudgeon

    It's much easier to promise someone a "free" ride on the wagon than to urge them to pull it.

    Luck occurs when preparation and opportunity converge.

  5. #5
    Itoldyouso's Avatar
    Itoldyouso is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    fort myers
    Car Year, Make, Model: '27 ford/'39 dodge/ '23 t
    Posts
    11,033

    Ok Pat, I caught Dan and asked him some questions about this. He was a little reluctant to give specifics because he says there are so many variables and every car and install is different. Plus, there are lots of opinions on how best to do it.

    But here are some of his thoughts:

    Air Ride Technologies makes nice stuff, but they don't like to get into custom lengths and stuff. Most of their kits are application specific, and even their universal kit is one length on the bars. The are also a little pricey.

    He likes Suicide Doors better. They will custom make the bars to your length, are very reasonable in price, and super to deal with. (My '39 has their stuff under it, and so does Dans '29.) Their bars are 1 and 1/2 inch DOM and built super strong.

    He says if you have the room, go with triangulated, as they eliminate the need for a panhard. The install is not one of the most simple jobs and takes much planning and fabrication. You will be rebuilding the rear of the frame to accomodate them and mount them.

    For bags. there are tons of choices, but one place to start would be Firestone double convoluted bags, like a number 255, but that is only one choice. Vi-Air makes a good compressor, in many models, but a number 460 is a nice one. For valves, SMC are good ones, too.

    Suicide Doors can help you pick out all the right components. He does say that bags are not the hottest set up for high performance usage. Coilovers and others are better if that is one of the points you are wanting to gain.

    Hope this info helps get you started in the right direction.


    Don

  6. #6
    Stu Cool's Avatar
    Stu Cool is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Olivehurst, CA
    Car Year, Make, Model: '53 Studebaker Custom w/LS1
    Posts
    1,900

    Thanks for the input guys. Any thoughts on the combination shock/airbags like AirRides Shockwaves? That should free up some space.

    Pat
    Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!

  7. #7
    BigTruckDriver is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    TX
    Car Year, Make, Model: hotrod
    Posts
    1,830

    Don't know just a thought,do those have the same amount of travel as bags do.?

  8. #8
    kennyd's Avatar
    kennyd is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    nw arkansas
    Car Year, Make, Model: 1961bubbletop,1967 chevelle conv.33 road
    Posts
    530

    price wise a shockwave is 799.00 pr , vs a cool ride set up at @350.00. i prefer shockwaves , compact, stylish , adjustable .
    yes i drove ,the trailer didnot drive it's self
    FATGIRLS ARE LIKE MOPEDS , FUN TO RIDE JUST DONT LET YOUR FRIENDS SEE YOU ON THEM

  9. #9
    muteboy49's Avatar
    muteboy49 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Taylor
    Car Year, Make, Model: 86 Mark VII
    Posts
    492

    for a 4 link for sure go to suicidedoors.com
    Never Criticise A Man Until You've Walked A Mile In His Shoes. That Way When You Criticise Him You'll Be A Mile Away And You'll Have His Shoes

  10. #10
    eyepoppin's Avatar
    eyepoppin is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    south bend
    Car Year, Make, Model: look in my signature
    Posts
    67

    from my exp. air lift co. makes just as good of equipment as air ride but are more resenably priced they have there own version of the shockwave which if you ask me air lifts version rides much better and gives you a 7 position adj shock in side. definetly go triangulated 4 link there are many ways you can install it if you run in to space problems hope the info helps if you have any other ? feel free to ask
    I have been building custom cars,trucks,streetrods for 13 years and counting
    59 mercury montery all original
    66 cadi on full air ride
    65 pontiac lamans convertable
    98 isuzu hombre on full air ride fully shaved,channelled show truck
    03 chevy tahoe tow pig
    02 s10 blazer daily driver

  11. #11
    Stu Cool's Avatar
    Stu Cool is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Olivehurst, CA
    Car Year, Make, Model: '53 Studebaker Custom w/LS1
    Posts
    1,900

    Thanks! I was not aware of the Air Lift stuff. Great to know about competition!

    Pat
    Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!

  12. #12
    Jeremy536's Avatar
    Jeremy536 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Jasper
    Car Year, Make, Model: 1967 RS/SS Camaro
    Posts
    20

    Just to clear some things up! On the rear of vehicles with a four link (either a parallel or a triangulated) you would want to use a sleeve style airspring. The double convoluted airsprings (a 255) is designed to pick up a lot more weight and does not have much travel; the sleeve is more suitable for the rear. This will give you a better ride quality and performance. As far as performance goes do the research. Check out this post from another Forum.



    I saw it with my own eyes At the RTH2 Auto-X from hell, the faster cars were running sub-70 second laps. Anything in the 60-second range was considered good for street tires. A 63 is killer. A 64 is excellent. 50's were only possible on stickies. Air Ride showed up with two A-bodies and one F-body. All of the cars were fast and the Air Ride guys, Britt and Brad, really know how to drive. Beyond the air springs, you must also consider the Air Ride hard parts such as their a-arms and tri-four links.
    So it's official: The only thing that was full of hot air we're their springs. For what we are trying to accomplish here at Pro-Touring.com--which is to build capable street cars--AirRide parts are just as fast as metal springs and other suspension parts. Sound like an ad? Nope. I'm just a believer trying to share some first hand news. We caught it all on video, too, so you can see for yourself. Worst case scenario, the numbers indicate that their A-body stuff works better than their F-body stuff. Times are listed below.

    66 Chevelle Britt Marolf-Britt was smooth. As the times show, he was fast on his first run and kept tweaking his laps. Note that all but one of his runs are clean (no cone penalties or DNF's)
    TIMES: 69.176, 66.202+1, 64.577, 66.338+1 (68.338), 65.181, 64.318

    71 Camaro: Brad Coomer-Brad has a, umm, propensity for throttle oversteer, so it looked like the car lacked bite. Brad was fun to watch and the car was fast anyway. His bets time was a 69 and change. DNF means that Brad lost his way a few times. But when we put Tony Bolton (the local gun) in the car for the Camaro Challenge, the car hooked and went with a lot less tire smoke. The "T" in the numbers below are with Tony Bolton driving.
    TIMES: DNF, DNF, 63.797+3 (69.797), 64.186T, 63.936+1 (65.936T)

    71 Buick GSX:At the last minute, Tony Bolton hopped in the big Buick and ripped off a 63. This car had more power, but also more heft. Air Ride owner, Brett Voelkel, showed that he is not afraid to put his driving skills or his high dollar rig to the test. He had a lot of trouble navigating the Auto-X from Hell, so we only have one official run--but--man--it was fast. Faster than any of the Camaro Challenge results. Brett would have really benefitted from riding with a navigator in the passenger seat. Then we would have more data. Regardless, we have one fast run. And fast is fast.
    TIMES: DNF, DNF, DNF, 70.790DNF, DNF, 63.817T

    I was just as skeptical as many you regarding the actual function of Air Ride suspension. No more. The right Air Ride parts, combined with the right wheels and tires (not 20" street rod wheels), an air Ride car can handle. Sorry if that bursts anyone's bubble (pun intended).
    __________________
    Steve Chryssos
    Because four fat tires are better than two. That's why!
    Twist Machine,LLC
    MuscleRides

  13. #13
    Stu Cool's Avatar
    Stu Cool is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Olivehurst, CA
    Car Year, Make, Model: '53 Studebaker Custom w/LS1
    Posts
    1,900

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy536
    Just to clear some things up! On the rear of vehicles with a four link (either a parallel or a triangulated) you would want to use a sleeve style airspring. The double convoluted airsprings (a 255) is designed to pick up a lot more weight and does not have much travel; the sleeve is more suitable for the rear. This will give you a better ride quality and performance. As far as performance goes do the research. __________________
    Jeremy, Thanks for the info. I understand about the convoluted springs. How to the shock combos like the ShockWaves compare to the sleeve style?

    thanks

    Pat
    Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!

  14. #14
    eyepoppin's Avatar
    eyepoppin is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    south bend
    Car Year, Make, Model: look in my signature
    Posts
    67

    you can get a sleeve stile air over shock from air lift and if you go to there web site you can see there are many different mount combs you can have. hope that helps
    I have been building custom cars,trucks,streetrods for 13 years and counting
    59 mercury montery all original
    66 cadi on full air ride
    65 pontiac lamans convertable
    98 isuzu hombre on full air ride fully shaved,channelled show truck
    03 chevy tahoe tow pig
    02 s10 blazer daily driver

  15. #15
    Jeremy536's Avatar
    Jeremy536 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Jasper
    Car Year, Make, Model: 1967 RS/SS Camaro
    Posts
    20

    The Shock Wave will open up some space. As far as the performance you do have more adjustability. It has a 16 position adjustable shock in it. However in most cases the air spring and separate shock have a little more travel to them. I hope this helps!

Reply To Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Links monetized by VigLink