Thread: steering question

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I am about to start on the steering for my '35 and have some questions. I have a GM column, Unisteer rack and soon to be ordered Sanderson block huggers.

what are the differences between splined and DD shafts, advantages/disadvantages?

at $100+ is a "vibration reducer" nessesary? is it a must have or doesn't make much differnece?

I will most likely be looking at a 3 u joint set up, correct? so I will be needing a support bearing?

any ideas on the best brands and places to buy everything? Borgeson and flaming river come to mind. if I use flaming river parts I will likely order from a cheaper retailer.

Any input? Thanks!

The advantage to the double d type is that you can cut the shafts to length were as the splined shafts have maybe an extra inch on each end to vary the length. On the other hand, I do like the splined shafts because they are a little tighter (less play) than the double d. As far as which brand, I use which ever is the best buy. I,ve never had to use the vibration dampner at all. I'm not sure when that would be needed. If you have that much vibration you probably have a nother problem.

This is just my experience.
Walt

There's some guys that know a lot more than me but I can help on some.

My steering box has a splined shaft on it already, this goes into a u-joint that has double D on the other side. It looks like a solid rod machined flat on each side (two D's back to back). Then another u-joint, DD shaft, support bearing and then the column is 1" DD.

I asked around a lot about the vibration reducer and no one in my city uses them from what I could find. I used the heavy duty polished S/S u-joints but I can't remember who made them. Around here we can't weld any of the steering components so the weldable u-joints are out.

Here's some pictures, but I'm sure one of these smarter guys will help more.

Sean

ok so it sounds like I'll try for splined shafts assuming that when I measure things out I am within an inch or two of the lengths provided. I will plan on no vibration reducer as it sounds like this may be something engineered to sucker some people in.

sgo70- your u joints are polished but the shafts are steel? will you just paint the shafts? I wouldn't mind avoiding polished shafts and u joints to cut costs a little on this part, but I can't find plain steel u joints on Flaming Rivers website? but I guess Borgeson does..

Now I just need to figure out what joint I need for this Unisteer rack. It looks a little strange with three splines then a smooth concave curve then three more splines maybe I can get pics later

thanks guys!

Funny you mention that. I painted my shafts and then the one wouldn't fit through my support bearing, so I sanded it down and put it on. Might have to brush paint it.

Sean

My GM column has splined out put and my MII rack has splined input, but not the same diameters. I will likely convert over to a double D sectional one day but no plans at this time. Cost is usually no different between splined shafts or double D's. Stainless is a lot more expensive than steel for everything, shaft, u joints, supports, vibration dampers etc.

As volksrod said the advantage of the double d is being able to cut to size. With the splined units it's like carpentry...... measure many times, cut once.

I have seen vibration dampers in use, but I don't have one on my car and don't think I have a real need for one either. I know Borgeson has everything in steel or stainless, but I thought Flaming River did as well, but I see that they now only offer stainless and aluminum.

Mine had Mil-Spec universals for years and never had any problems even though they are not street intended. Good enough for airplanes and drag cars, but not for street rods.

I wish I had money to just buy stainless and be done with it so I don't have to try and paint and have it not fit.

so when cutting a splined shaft can you simply cut it off with a cut off wheel and then clean it up?


thank you all

Double D shafts look too agricultural for my tastes, though they do have the advantages Walt and Bob mentioned. A slight advantage to the spined shafts is you have slightly more clocking ability for alignment of the column, steering wheel setup. Most of the quality spined shafts have 2 inches of spine at each end. I buy one as close to two inches longer than needed as possible and cut off the extra from each end which minimizes the amount of exposed spine sticking out from the joints (again a cosmetic issue, but details make the difference on hand built cars). Cutting off with a cutoff saw should give you a nice even cut, just grind a slight bevel on the cut ends, makes it slide into the joints more easily. Also plan to counter sink a set point where each of the set screws hits the shaft, gives a more secure set.

ok so I am going to plan to order 3 u joints and a support bearing and I will assemble them with wooden dowls and measure for the splined shafts.

one last question...should the shaft fit snug all the way into the u joint or have a small amount of play? the set screws might make this not matter so much I suppose

I'm not sure that's a relavent question. Obviously the shaft splines need to be somewhat undersize in order to slide into the joint, but given the amount of surface area any minimal "looseness" is relatively insignificant, and yes the set screws (typically two per) make that moot. Go to this page; http://www.borgeson.com/DESIGN/STEERING%20DESIGN5.html for more thoughts. Note the menu in the grey box to the left for more discussion of other important points of interest.

I think what you're asking is how far into the ujoint the shaft goes....am I right? If so you should go all the way into the collar until it's flush with the inside. You can go slightly longer but too much will interfere with the operation of the u-joint.

Once you get it if you're unsure just post a pic and ask for opinions, these guys are a great help.

Sean

sorry Bob I'm not sure I explained that question well enough - sgo70 I think, sees what I mean though. Basically how far into the u joint does the shaft go. I was wondering if "too far" would interfere with the operation of the u joint and it sounds like it would.

Evolvo - I will check out unisteer today. I hadn't thought to check them...thanks

I gotta agree with Evolvo. I bought Unisteer joints and have been very happyy with them. I had a Flaming River Vega box that only last about ten thousand miles, so I wasn't going to trust them for the joints. Check ebay for the steering components, I got some very good deals there.

Originally Posted by 35fordcoupe

sorry Bob I'm not sure I explained that question well enough - sgo70 I think, sees what I mean though. Basically how far into the u joint does the shaft go. I was wondering if "too far" would interfere with the operation of the u joint and it sounds like it would.

Spend a few minutes reading the material in the link I gave to Borgeson, that answer and more is there, line drawings and all.

35 ford coupe,
I also have installed a unisteer in my 34 3 window. A steering article in I think Street Rodder said not to use a odd number of u-joints in the steering system. Something to do with a bump in the system while turning the steering wheel. I have a 4 u-joint system (can add pics in another post if you want to see what I have done). Those who have the 3 u-joint system can chime in on the bump or no bump when they are steering on the road. As my car is not road worthy yet I have not given it a real test but just driving in and out of the shop and out to the street I like how it steers. Lets hear some more opinions on the 3 vs. 4 u-joint system.

Jack.