Roadster Stuff

[C9x]

I tried to respond via PM, but found it was limited size-wise.

Since there are so many ways to go and tricks to do with roadsters - and coupes and sedans - I thought this may be a good way to go.

Feel free to chime in with questions or answers concerning solid axle, thin fender cars.

My car, a 31 Brookville body on a 32 frame done highboy style, but with bobbed rear fenders and yet to be installed cycle front fenders.
It's to the point where it's a roller, looks like you could drive it, but it needs a lot of little things finished before the drivetrain rebuild.

[B]
I chose the Glide 50-50 seats so I could get them under the deck but ended up with a bulkhead there as I ended up putting in a double high row of 1" tubing for body strength. Brookville never fastened the quarters. I also have found that most rivets were not bucked enough and have welded most of them. The body can no longer move around on the subframe.

I'm not a real fan of the side mount gas tanks - are they the Tanks Inc plastic units? They usually hang too low in the front, become the lowest point on many cars - but it's probably no worse than my rear mounted '32 style tank
I spent quite a bit of time trying to come up with a battery mount below the floor, but I'm using a TCI '31chrome and stainless IFS chassis, so really am cramped for space.

Back home again late on Saturday night from NSRA Burlongton - heavy rain.
Too bad they limit these msgs to 1000 spaces

I plan to put a bulkhead behind the seat as well.
Probably something along the lines of what I say Jay Fjastad do at the Deuce Factory some years back.
He built what looked to be 3/4" square tubing inside a 1" frame that fastened to the Wescott glass 32 body.
Probably sheet aluminum on that and some weatherstripping or whatever to keep air flow - known as dust here in Arizona - out of the trunk.

What I'm liking about the trunk so far, I can carry a spare tire and set a tool box down in the lower part of the trunk floor right behind the seat.
Been running the 32 without a spare since 93 and so far so good.
Carried the flat fixer in a can and a jack though.

The Glide seats are very nice.
I found that the ChryCo van seat allows the seat to slide back into the trunk area if necessary.

I'm not doing the plastic "Tanks" fuel tank bit.
I understand they are a pain in the backside to fill cuz they fill so slow.

I'm making my own and so far it looks like I can have a filler under the rear license plate which will probably end up between the taillights or do a decklid area filler like I have on the 32.
Right now I'm leaning toward the rear filler and hinging the license plate bracket.
With a 10" drop and a fairly straight shot it should fill as fast as any stocker.
Trouble with the tanks filler in the rear fender is it has a sharp 90 degree turn right at the top.
Not to mention rear wheel travel is limited in that area.

The car I'm building is highboy style with bobbed rear fenders and cycle front fenders so the tanks will sit inside the frame.

14 gallons total doesn't sound like much, but as mentioned I have a 16 gallon fuel cell in the 32 and it gets me far enough down the road between stops.
Most times it takes 10 gallons and other times when it's really on the bottom it takes 12.
The foam takes up more room than most realize.

'Course, living here in the desert there are some long stretches.
200 miles between Needles and Barstow with only one fuel stop about 50-60 miles out of Barstow.
Which sold gas for $4.00 per gallon a couple years back when most gas was selling for $2.00 per.

Even so, better to pay that price than get stuck in the dez with a roadster.

We had street drags in town yesterday.
Good turnout, 250 cars running 1/16 of a mile.
Pretty good low gear blast for most, but some pretty good speeds were turned in by some.

From what I understand the drag race club has the money to buy the property for the strip once they find the right piece of land so a dragstrip here may be 1-2 years away.

[Irelands child]

[QUOTE=C9x]Since there are so many ways to go and tricks to do with roadsters - and coupes and sedans - I thought this may be a good way to go.

Might consider this as the beginning of the Roadster Tip forum ???

I found that using a conduit hickey I could easily bend the 1" round tubing that I used for my bulkhead - square tubing is difficult to form without kinking though I did use 1/2" squares on my prototype and as yet unused hard top. I then tied it to the body supports under the panel between the trunk lid and the passenger compt riser then tied it to the sides and to the floor/body frame channels. It really makes the body solid. Since most of the rivets were not bucked properly, most everything on the body was welded - and again, it tightened everthing up. I will be rebucking the rivets at the bottom of the firewall shortly - though did consider and still may, grind 'em flat and weld them as well.

I will not have room for a spare in any shape or form - though in my case expect to build a small trailer. An expensive error in judgement that left me with 2 extra 15x8 Billet Specialties wheels and some 'Z' rated Yokohama tires will at least allow me to have it match the car - also have an extra pair of Pontiac style taillights. Now all that is needed is a couple of hundred dollars of steel, and a couple of weekends. I have the bucks, but no time though with the car paint still outstanding.

Your plan for a gas tank sounds good though not feasible for a '31/'31 frame. With a '31 roadster you either have it in the trunk (NEVER for me), Tanks Inc splash shield units, original cowl (again, NEVER for me) or do the '32 style with the significant amount of necessary work to the 'A' rear frame. Your 14 gallons is only about a gallon less than an aftermarket '32 (there is a 17 gallon version but it compromises ground clearance by about 2 more inches).
Believe it or not, there are empty spaces in Upstate NY where gas stations are few and far between. One of the largest counties in NY has only about 5300 residents, or less than 3/mile, so gas stations are at a minimum and it is expensive.

Went to Burlington VT for the NSRA NE SR Nationals. Crappy weather, but still managed to draw about 1300 cars. Lots of Canadians - with really nice rides. With their tax structure and import regulations don't know how they do it.

[C9x]

[QUOTE=Irelands child]

Since there are so many ways to go and tricks to do with roadsters - and coupes and sedans - I thought this may be a good way to go.

Might consider this as the beginning of the Roadster Tip forum ???

I found that using a conduit hickey I could easily bend the 1" round tubing that I used for my bulkhead - square tubing is difficult to form without kinking though I did use 1/2" squares on my prototype and as yet unused hard top. I then tied it to the body supports under the panel between the trunk lid and the passenger compt riser then tied it to the sides and to the floor/body frame channels. It really makes the body solid. Since most of the rivets were not bucked properly, most everything on the body was welded - and again, it tightened everthing up. I will be rebucking the rivets at the bottom of the firewall shortly - though did consider and still may, grind 'em flat and weld them as well.

I will not have room for a spare in any shape or form - though in my case expect to build a small trailer. An expensive error in judgement that left me with 2 extra 15x8 Billet Specialties wheels and some 'Z' rated Yokohama tires will at least allow me to have it match the car - also have an extra pair of Pontiac style taillights. Now all that is needed is a couple of hundred dollars of steel, and a couple of weekends. I have the bucks, but no time though with the car paint still outstanding.

Sounds like an nice way to make the outer pieces for a bulkhead.
My pal has a square tube bender he used to use in his wrought iron work.
That should work for my bulkhead.

Given any thought to a roll-bar like piece under the cowl at the firewall?
Most roadsters do the cowl/windshield shake bit when they hit a railroad crossing or similar.

I plan to put one of these in the car and depending on how I build the roll-bar, either tie it to the roll-bar or make a steeply angle brace piece.
Trouble there is, the brace will take away from footroom.
In fact, the side panel upholstery in the cowl area took away from footroom in my 32.
I've been thinking of making a recessed panel for this area.

So far, all the rivets I've looked at close are bucked like they should be.
Granted, nothing like driving the car, but the body proper seems to be very stiff as is from the factory.

The pic shows some braces that help a lot when when handling the body.
Remove the doors and install a 1" aluminum angle piece to a door hinge hole and a latch hole at the other end.
You'll need a couple of 1" x 1" drilled aluminum angle pieces bolted on each end of the brace to make the 90 degree turn to the door holes.
Even so, they're quick and easy to make.

I handle the body by myself using a roll-around engine hoist.
Four 3/8" eyes bolted to four holes in the body - which conveniently are in a hat channel area of the subfloor making for a strong point to lift.
Four motorcycle tie-down straps adjusted so the body hangs level, connect the straps to hook and chain on the hoist and you're in business.

Another aid is a 1" square tubing rack that's a 36" x 72" rectangle with castered wheels on one end and non-castered wheels on the other.
Don't be tempted to put castering wheels on each corner, the body/rack will go every which way when you try to roll it around.
Place a couple of 8' 2 x 4's between rack and body so the body is supported correctly.
Nothing fancy, no cutting required, just lay em in place.
Depending on how far you go etc., it may pay to clamp the 2 x 4's to the rack

I had a larger rack when I built my 32, it had very easy rolling large castered wheels on all four corners.
Only thing that saved it were the built-in brakes on the casters.

When I painted the 32's body, I turned it upside down on a couple layers of thick carpet with cardboard boxes underneath.
Painted the underside, let it cure for a few days.
Then I added some plywood sides to the roll-around rack to raise the body up 2' for painting.
The plywood sides were padded with soft rags and the like, the body went on and the upper part of the body was painted.

I've been thinking strongly of building a trailer hitch for this car.
Probably don't need it due to lots of room in the trunk, but it would be a nice option.
A slide in piece carrying the ball that entered on a 45 or 90 degree angle would keep it out of sight for the most part.
Part of whether or not I build a hitch will depend on what style rear bumper I use.
My 32 has a gasser style bumper and I'm liking nerf bars for the 32.

Choices . . . and decisions....

[Irelands child]

Looks like you have the square tubing covered - that tough stuf to work with without kinking.

I do have a steel cage tying the firewall more securely to the floor and cowl -it was really loose and as long as the doors are in place or the 1x1 tubing is between the door jambs, similar to your aluminum pieces it is fine.

The car is on a, for no better term a pallet or frame, and on roll around dolly at present, but is a bit too low. I'll build it 6 or 8 inches up for ease of painting. Since it's tough to find someone when I need to move the car to the frame or horses, I bolt a chain to my cowl bracing and use a spreader bar to my added trunk bracing and uses a chainfall on one end and a comealong on the other. Haven't had a problem yet. I do like your idea of eye bolts but seems to be an interference when bolting to my 'A' chassis. Probably works better on a '32 frame.

The castered frame is wood and made up with a lot of screws and 4x4 bracing-it doesn't twist, then topped with the pallet mentioned above. I found some very nice ball bearing greasable casters which were from the abandoned Phaltzgraff(sp) pottery factory in PA (they moved to China !!!).

I'm not sure how I'm going to paint the underside - it doesn't seem like a good idea to turn it over - Brookville steel is draw quality and very soft. I DO NOT need any more problems with deformation. Probably brace the door openings again and hang it from the ceiling and crawl under it(with safety chains of course).

I have to fully think out the trailer hitch - using the '32 horns does leave me a couple of attaching points outside the horn covers and bolted up with the spreader bar bolts but its not 'clean' - too visible. Plus want to use nerfs as you say, rather than clunky looking bumpers - and a buddy has a set of like new '32 style bumpers.

Here's a photo showing the trunk bracing in black, the cowl and body bracing in gray. The wood is for upholstery

[stylingZ]

Hi Irelands child, I am currently building a 1930 Brookville Model A roadster with metal fenders. I did not like the idea of plastic side gas tanks nor did I like the thought of the rear gas tank like on deuces. I talked with a man who has been professionally building hotrod for SoCal for many years. He pulled out detailed pictures of the custom made steel gas tanks he makes that ride much higher than the plastic ones. The price for his steel tanks was the SAME as the cost of the low hanging plastic version. The custom steel tanks are designed to ride much higher than the plastic ones so I opted to go this way. I will let you know how things work out once they are mounted.

[Irelands child]

Hi Irelands child, I am currently building a 1930 Brookville Model A roadster with metal fenders. I did not like the idea of plastic side gas tanks nor did I like the thought of the rear gas tank like on deuces. I talked with a man who has been professionally building hotrod for SoCal for many years. He pulled out detailed pictures of the custom made steel gas tanks he makes that ride much higher than the plastic ones. The price for his steel tanks was the SAME as the cost of the low hanging plastic version. The custom steel tanks are designed to ride much higher than the plastic ones so I opted to go this way. I will let you know how things work out once they are mounted.

Not a bad Idea - best check as to how much they hold. The plastic Tanks, Inc pcs only hold 6 or 7 gallons each. Also, make sure he supplies a changeover valve and assorted plumbing. Downfall for these tanks and their filler is that dribble of gas that ruins the paint on the splash shields.
I ended up with a 2 pass 24" extruded finned aluminum trans cooler under the right splash shield - so that side is full.

Another option, have a tank made to fit in back of where my support steel is in my '31 body. You can get more capacity. You just have to make sure you have an impervious bulkhead for fumes and fire.

Anything, just so long as you don't use an original cowl tank !!!

[C9x]

Looks like you have the square tubing covered - that tough stuf to work with without kinking.

I hope so.
His bender gets the radius down fairly small and it will probably be enough for my needs.

You're probably aware you can cut kerfs in square or rect tubing, bend it so the outer curve is smooth and then do many welds . . . and grind.

Another slick way is to cut the top piece - the outside of the curve - loose and do the same with the bottom.
Remove the side pieces.
Make new side pieces out of plate to match the square/rect tubings wall thickness, these will be the curve you want.
Bend the outside and inside pieces to fit, weld and again . . . grind.

Labor intensive, but it makes a nice curve.
For one or two curves anyway.
More than that and maybe something else would be moh bettah.


One thing you could do that would help is to make a sealed gas tank compartment.
Then vent the compartment.
Air in, air out.

I used to have a blue water capable sailboat and the gas tanks locker was vented with formed soft PCV plastic vents connected to a pair of nautically rated looks like a dryer duct hose, but higher quality.
Above the deck the vents had a 90 degree curve to them as well as an extended upper lip to keep the rain and spray out.
One vent faced forward, the other faced aft.
It worked well and opening the gas tanks locker lid, the smell of gasoline fumes was not detectable.

Obviously you're not gonna want a nautically themed boat vent, but something along those lines could be done so as to vent a roadster tank overboard.

One thing I would not do is to run an electric fuel pump in the gas tank compartment or anywhere else inside the body.
Use of a bulkhead fitting to get the fuel and vent lines through the floor makes for a clean setup.

Setting up a bottom of the tank outlet similar to what the drag racers do is a bad idea and in fact is against federal law as far as new car production goes.
Better to use a circle track style outlet that comes out of the top of the tank.

Here's a pic of my transmission cooler.
Works well except for slow running the high mountain twisting roads.
The not-too-loose converter (2400 rpm stall) generates heat under those conditions because the engines running under the lockup rpm.
Other than that, the cooler - in conjunction with a Derale vented trans pan - does the job.

[Irelands child]

If I am seeing what I think I see, your spreader bar is your cooler. It surpises me that there is enough heat transfer area - did you use steel or copper/aluminum painted black. This is my cooler. You can also see the unfinished driveshaft loop - there because fuel and brake lines cross above the driveshaft, which, without protection is not a real good idea.

[C9x]

If I am seeing what I think I see, your spreader bar is your cooler. It surpises me that there is enough heat transfer area - did you use steel or copper/aluminum painted black. This is my cooler. You can also see the unfinished driveshaft loop - there because fuel and brake lines cross above the driveshaft, which, without protection is not a real good idea.

Correct that the spreader bar is the trans cooler . . . and license plate mount.

It's thin-wall - but not too thin - tubing powdered black.
Radiation area is 120 square inches.
Seems to work well, a lot of heat comes off it.

Black is the most efficient heat radiation color as well.

I have the same setup on the 31, but it has 100-110 square inches of radiation area due to it's smaller diameter.
The Derale 1" deeper with air tubes trans pan helps as well.

Your finned aluminum trans cooler looks to have quite a bit more radiation area than mine so you can probably expect it to work quite well.

Driveshaft loop be good.
I have two on the 31.
One up front like NHRA and SCTA rulebooks say and one toward the back due to a crossmember is required for the Chris Alston Chassis Works 4 links.
Both loops are Chris Alston ovals bent to a sharp radius from 1" x 2" rectangular tubing.

Pic = front loop.

[C9x]

Rear driveshaft loop.

[C9x]

Here's a recent pic of most of the chassis as viewed from the rear.

[C9x]

Here's a pic of the Derale air tube trans pan in my 32.

It is 1" deeper than stock.

No ground clearance problems as it hangs down the same amount as the engine oil pan.

[Irelands child]

Sigh - to have a '32 frame and some room !!!

Most of the guys I hang around with don't even have a driveshaft loop - which I consider somewhat irresponsible. I have to put another 1" bar at the top of the loop, then will be reasonably comfortable. The loop itself is a 1/2" truck U-bolt which should be equal in strength to most anything I could buy from Speedway or Summit and is bolted through a 1" x .125 wall tube, plus pieces of 1/4" plate on each side of it then bolted to the frame.

I had a deep cast aluminum pan for my trans, but hung too low - lowest part between the front cross member and the differential. I have gone back to the TCI stock type pan that came with the C4. If I have a problem then will consider a Derale if they still make one for the case fill C4. Can I assume that you are showing a remote secondary trans filter on the frame rail? It's the wrong side for what I would expect for a remote engine oil filter. Not sure that I'm going to do that. I'll change the trans oil and filter after my first year of operation and probably every couple years afterwards, depending on miles run

I still have to put an H pipe in the exhaust - I found some fish mouthed weld ends in a catalog the other day but minimum order was 10 pieces, and since I'm using the 2.250 pipes recommended by several SB Ford performance folks, would have a problem pedaling the unneeded 8. I'll keep looking - or make up my own with some short pieces, my torch and a hammer.

You appear to have a small fortune tied up in AN fittings and line as well - as far as I'm concerned, that, plus stainless hard brake lines are the only way to go. Russell finally came out with the right length DOT lines for my flex brake lines. Fuel lines, except where they pass through the drive shaft loop bracketing are all AN as well.

Looks like you are running an 8" differential. Would have been my normal choice except I got a great $100 deal on a smooth back '57 9". It had 3.70's but I changed out to 3.25's which added $75.
I'm not hung up with having a 9" - for a light car with reasonable horsepower (<450), the 8" will take it - plus is usually one heck of a lot cheaper.

The last of the primer came off on Friday - the car needs one last cleanup pass with the DA then on to epoxy primer - this coming week, if the weather cooperates. My comment on this - if a responsible media blaster is nearby, go that route and pay the few bucks - time, temper, fingertips and fingernails nails plus a lot of sweat will be saved.

[C9x]

Sigh - to have a '32 frame and some room !!!

Yeah, I didn't know how good I had it till I helped a pal on his full fendered 29 A roadster.


Most of the guys I hang around with don't even have a driveshaft loop - which I consider somewhat irresponsible. I have to put another 1" bar at the top of the loop, then will be reasonably comfortable. The loop itself is a 1/2" truck U-bolt which should be equal in strength to most anything I could buy from Speedway or Summit and is bolted through a 1" x .125 wall tube, plus pieces of 1/4" plate on each side of it then bolted to the frame.

Sounds like it will do the job. The 32 started out to be a street runner with an occasional shot at the nostalgia drags. By the time I got it running, cages were required and a four point roll bar was not sufficient.

Can I assume that you are showing a remote secondary trans filter on the frame rail? It's the wrong side for what I would expect for a remote engine oil filter.

Correct on the secondary (the white one) trans filter. The orange filter is the front filter of a pair of engine oil filters that are mounted mid-frame. The oil filter adapter is home-made and lives on the right front corner of the engine. (462" Buick.) There's also a screw-on style fuel filter adapted to a custom machined nipple that goes onto a remote oil filter piece. It's back by the rear end and about 3/4 the size of a standard Fram PH8a. I understand WIX makes a fuel filter that screws right onto the 3/4-16 threads of a standard remote oil filter mount.



I still have to put an H pipe in the exhaust - I found some fish mouthed weld ends in a catalog the other day but minimum order was 10 pieces, and since I'm using the 2.250 pipes recommended by several SB Ford performance folks, would have a problem pedaling the unneeded 8. I'll keep looking - or make up my own with some short pieces, my torch and a hammer.

H-pipes are easy. Keep in mind that if you're running a 2 1/2" exhaust system on the street, a 2 1/2" H-pipe is not required. A 2 1/4" H-pipe - as shown in the pic - works just as well and is an easier install. My main reason for the H-pipe was exhaust sound attenuation. Darned car used to set off a whole bunch of car alarms in the downtown parking garage. Now, maybe one or two go off. The 32 runs two chamber FlowMasters. The 31 will have some way quieter muffs.

You appear to have a small fortune tied up in AN fittings and line as well - as far as I'm concerned, that, plus stainless hard brake lines are the only way to go. Russell finally came out with the right length DOT lines for my flex brake lines. Fuel lines, except where they pass through the drive shaft loop bracketing are all AN as well.

True. But nothing like on my little brothers drag race Henry J. He bought a handful of fittings and hoses - big ones - for oil and fuel and I think he spent $1300. about ten years ago. Most of mine are #4, #6, #8 and a couple of #10's. If the oil lines are hidden under the frame you can use #10 hydraulic lines - rated 3000# - sky blue in color and the hydraulic fittings are similar to Earls except that they are steel and cad iridited on some and nickel plated on others. With some changes being made over the years, I have a cookie tin full of Earls fittings so I have a good start on plumbing the 31. The battery box I'm building is almost done and the next project is brackets for the two elec fuel pumps.

Looks like you are running an 8" differential. Would have been my normal choice except I got a great $100 deal on a smooth back '57 9". It had 3.70's but I changed out to 3.25's which added $75.
I'm not hung up with having a 9" - for a light car with reasonable horsepower (<450), the 8" will take it - plus is usually one heck of a lot cheaper.

Nine inch Ford diffs in both cars. the 32 is 55" wide outer drum to outer drum, runs 28 spline axles with an open 3.70 diff. The 31 has a 56" wide rear axle, 31 splline Dutchman alloy axles and a 3.50 or 3.25 gear set (probably the 3.25) with Auburn locker. I narrowed the housing at home. The 8" Ford runs the same axle as the 28 spline 9" so you probably won't have any problems there. Reason for the race-o stuff on the 31 is that it started out to be a dry lakes car, but it turned out so nice I'm putting it on the street.


The last of the primer came off on Friday - the car needs one last cleanup pass with the DA then on to epoxy primer - this coming week, if the weather cooperates. My comment on this - if a responsible media blaster is nearby, go that route and pay the few bucks - time, temper, fingertips and fingernails nails plus a lot of sweat will be saved.[/QUOTE]

I've been trying not to think about paint. Maybe I should, the hot weather is over here (N/W Arizona) and the hard work with paint prep would be easier in cold weather. There's quite a hot rod presence here in town, more than likely some of the guys will be able to recommend a good media blaster. We have a powder shop . . . now if only a chrome shop would open....

[C9x]

Here's a pic of the remote oil filter adapter.
Two parts except for the fittings.

What makes this piece work well is that either fitting can be oriented to any position on a circle as well as be pointed at just about any angle.

Commercially available ones for the 455 series of Buick engines have a skimpy o-ring for a seal as well as drilled and tapped holes for the fittings which can make things somewhat limiting.

I use the rubber - rectangular in cross section - Fram PH8a oil filter gasket for the adapter where it goes to the oil pump/filter mount.
It's a much better sealing system than the skinny o-ring setup.
I hate to destroy an engine with a lot of $$ invested along with a lot of work just cuz an aftermarket manufacturer does the cheapo bit.
There's also a somewhat fat o-ring that makes a seal between base and outer piece.

The third oil line you see goes to a home-made bulkhead adapter so the oil lines (#10) can run inside the frame.