Anyone know what the shop rate is (in hours) for changing the spark plugs and wires in a '93 Vette? The local Chevy dealer just hit me for 5.8 hours and $417.00.
I normally would have done this myself, but got jammed up and needed the car asap.
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Anyone know what the shop rate is (in hours) for changing the spark plugs and wires in a '93 Vette? The local Chevy dealer just hit me for 5.8 hours and $417.00.
I normally would have done this myself, but got jammed up and needed the car asap.
What did they have to do, pull the engine? :eek:
That is absolutly sickening. Talk about frustrating and there's probably
nothing that can be done.:confused:
Ron
My kid lives in NE he just paid $489.95 to have his altinator changed on his Tarrus and its probably an early 90s:eek: :eek: Bend over here it comes
I can buy the altinator here for 127. with out trying to find a deal.
Shop rateswhere I live are $60.00/hr. If they charged you that amount for 5.5 hrs. they must have taken a dozen smoke breaks and charged you for them:HMMM:
Sounds like my F150 with 5.4 engine - you have to remove a bunch of pieces even to see the top of the engine - and the plugs are coil over which I believe your 'vette may be as well. Think about it this way - you're paying for (an) experience (yuk, barf, hak-hak).:CRY: :CRY:
If it's the ol' standard 350 with HEI, they saw a man with money - he has a 'vette and is loaded !!:eek:
I've changed plugs myself, and nothing needs to be removed from the engine. You have to be a contortionist, but it can be done in a couple of hours max. I'm calling the service manager tomorrow. The service writer just ummmmed and uhhhed through my questions.
They're not coil-over on a 93. However, I have the famous optispark distributor, and I had to have that replaced today also. This is the second replacement. The first one lasted 10 years. The last one lasted a little short of three years. (sorry, the warranty is only 12/12).
Yep ummmmmed and uhhhed means ummmm well sorry but thats what it cost. and uh,uh means no your not getting any money back. Thanks for your business and come again.:LOL:
Didn't think so but what does a Ford owner know !!:toocool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
Why not carefully preserve the Optispark dist for the next owner and consider an MSD or DUI??
Sorry about the ummm and ahhh - that means we gotcha. Good :CRY: :CRY:
I'd save the Optispark, but there won't be another owner unless it's a part of my estate. I'm not particularly worred about keeping this one original.
If I had the time to do it myself, I would have gone MSD this time. The sad part is that it's $175 cheaper than the GM replacement.
you mean the flat rate? there is a little book of flat rate charges, book stores and some librarys have it, it covers a wide range of vehicles. we have it in our autoshop class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
That's what I was talking about.
if that included the dist. that was a good price. the dist. is about 400.00. if thats just labor, then pulling the water pump, dist, wires, and plugs could very easy take 5 hrs. i've done it a few times, but its been awhile. the dist is behind the water pump right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
Mike,
Nope, that was just for replacing the spark plugs and wires. Here's the breakdown:
Replace water pump and dist - 4.40 hours
Replace spark plugs & wires - 5.80 hours
The distributor was $674.15
The water pump kit was $329.08
The wires were $93.55
The plugs were $56.00 ($7.00 each)
Total bill, with tax: $1,959.83
I've worked on this car, and it makes no sense that changing the plugs and wires takes more time than replacing the distributor and water pump.
The water pump is behind the distributor - cam driven.
where he screw you is after he got to the dist., the wires is not all that hard to get to. he charged you full labor on the wires and it should have been a add on to the dist. its been done before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
i have Aldata labor rates, but i cant get to them right this min. the shop is closed until mon. sorryQuote:
Originally Posted by lt1s10
Thanks, Mike
I figured that doing it all at once should have cut the labor. I'll talk to the service manager tomorrow.
i used to fight with my mechanics over that on every W.O. they would have a motor r and r, and while it was out they put a front seal in the trans. then they wanted me to charge 4 hrs for pulling the trans when it only took 30 more min. to knock the seal in. they got motor r and r plus .5 for the seal. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
Yeah, what Mike said. Oldest scam in the flat rate world... Charging for the main job, then throwing in a few incidentals that are part of the main job anyhow... My book is at the shop, but the time on plug R&R seems an hour or so high.... I don't use the flat rate anymore, customers won't stand for it..... Heck, I'm old and crippled and can usually beat flat rate,,,,,,including all my coffee breaks!!!!!!
Are vettes that complicated? I haven't worked on one so i wouldnt know, but seems like a lot of money to keep a car on the road!:eek:
From Dave Severson:So Dave is a more honest mechanic in a modern world....would the costs be similiar in an everyday car like a chevy or ford?Quote:
Yeah, what Mike said. Oldest scam in the flat rate world... Charging for the main job, then throwing in a few incidentals that are part of the main job anyhow... My book is at the shop, but the time on plug R&R seems an hour or so high.... I don't use the flat rate anymore, customers won't stand for it..... Heck, I'm old and crippled and can usually beat flat rate,,,,,,including all my coffee breaks!!!!!!
Nope, costs would be considerably lower (I Hope!!!) on something other then a Vette. The Vettes have never been that much more complicated to work on, just that because it's a Vette, they feel they can get away with charging at least 50% more!!!! It's not right, but it's always been that way....Quote:
Originally Posted by Packhorse32
Hardest tune-up i've ever done had to be on the 4.0 v6 in the Ford Aerostar. It pays 4 hours in the labor manual and you have to take all the spark plugs out with a modified socket and stubby wrench while tearing your arms up on the insullation and aluminum that Ford puts all around the motor. But it sounds like they planked you on labor times for the tune-up on the corvette.
I don't think what they charged is as outragous as everyone else thinks sadly...you may be able to get through it in 2 hours (which is fairly impressive on those cars) but I'm pretty sure a reasonable rate for a plug/wire change would be at least 4 hrs.
Mistake #1 was taking it to a dealer :(
.....Hi Henry, well I don't know how similar your '93 Vette is to my '94 Firebird BUT my car has been up on jack stands for two days while I've been changing the plugs/wires. Now I'm most certainly NOT the fastest, most experiened car guy around, & I've had to make newmerous trips back down to the auto parts store for more/different tools BUT I can tell you this; It is a pain in the a** to change 'em! I went to camaroz28.com & got a bunch of tips so this helped but still! You have to take the alternator out for sure. Some guys pull the starter, unbolt & slide the power steering pump forward,etc, etc, etc... There is SO much stuff in the way, it's unbelievable!Anyway, I read where the labor only to change mine was around $300..... As of now I have all the plugs done & 4 of 8 wires in..... I'll finish tomorrow..... I'm not going to admit to the things I cut off & just threw away! But it sounds like they were 'double dipping' you by charging full price for Opti change & full price wire change... Bill
thats the problem with 91 to 93 GM, LT1's, be it camero, trans. am or vet. they are not easy to work on. believe me i know. i've owned 4 dif. cars with LT1 in them and replace the dist. on 2 of them. napa dist was 390.00 i think.:CRY: the dealer is the problem. they worked the same mechanic's that i did. at the time i got 38.00 hr. book time and the dealer got 70.00 a hr. :HMMM: now i guess its 50.00 for the independent and close to a 100.00 for the dealer. find a good independent shop to go to.
I believe the labor time should have been broken down and discounted for any repetative steps taken while you had your work done. When I was a Mr. Goodwrench back in the last century they sure did. Was the labor rate clearly posted for all to see? It seems a bit high,but I do see rates of $65 posted around here. I'd go directly to the dealer himself, and when you recieve no satisfaction file a complaint with the better business bureau, or state attourney generals office. Just a thought,Hank
the ford is a lot easer than the LT1 vet. the dist. is behind the water pump. :whacked: you also have to take the H.B. off to get to the dist.Quote:
Originally Posted by billlsbird
I may be too late with this input, but what Mike and Dave are referring to was identified as "overlap" in the body trade. In other words, when procedures overlap one another for the labor action required there was a reduction of one of the flat rate times, usually the second one. A good computerized labor program (which I would expect a dealer to have) will automatically factor in the overlap discount if the right labor codes are entered when building the invoice/workorder. Of course there are ways to "cheat" the programming.
Going to the BBB is pretty much a waste of time for getting anything serious accomplished. The State Attorney General's office is a bigger/better club, especially if there is a specific department for automotive service fraud (they'd be already familiar with the flat rate concept which could be difficult to explain to the uninformed).
bob,you are right about the BBB. if you belong to it they will more than likely do nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter
"Mitchell Manual" time is 3.6 hours for plugs and wires. Our labor rate is $98 per flat rate hour.
I would have charged 4.1.... reason is the vehicle is no longer new. These estimated times were published when the cars were still new. They don't account for rust, wear, oil leaks, cleaning parts, or frozen bolts.
I'm sick of dealership techs getting blasted because someone "didn't have the time..." to do it themselves and feel like they got "ripped off". How much is your time worth??? If time is that expensive, get off your ass and fix your own car. MY time is expensive, too. So are $40K worth of tools. We all hear the same crap everyday... "I used to turn wrenches, but I don't have time any more..."
It's not that they don't have the time, its the complexity of modern vehicles. The Mercedes vehicles that I service and repair have more electronics in the driver seat than most ten-year-old cars had in the whole car.
Try going to work, working all day on a "problem car", and getting 1.8 hours of warranty pay. See how THAT flies in any other job. "Okay... you worked ten hours....but we're only gonna pay you four..." You would QUIT... wouldn't you!!! Flat rate pay sucks, work conditions suck, warranty sucks, and lastly... CUSTOMERS SUCK.
If you're ranting at me, all I asked is "what was the shop rate? I didn't say anything about being ripped off.Quote:
I'm sick of dealership techs getting blasted because someone "didn't have the time..." to do it themselves and feel like they got "ripped off". How much is your time worth??? If time is that expensive, get off your ass and fix your own car. MY time is expensive, too. So are $40K worth of tools. We all hear the same crap everyday... "I used to turn wrenches, but I don't have time any more..."
you can get to all of the plugs without having to remove anything...you just need the right swivel/extension combo. I think for the #2 plug by the alternator I laid across the engine to get it :whacked: :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by billlsbird
I and probably a lot of us older mechanics probably agree working for the general public is a B@$+@&D. Thats why we either go into fleet service work,or work for big public utilities or move on to other mechanical fields. ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by madgrinder
:HMMM: Workinjg for the independant or Franchise atomotive garages is getting to be pretty cutthroat and all, and I mean all means are used to make money, because profit margins are so squeezed now. Personally speaking there is no way I would go back to being a mechanic on the floor. That is because of the stress levels involved I would not enjoy the job like I used to. This case with the charge out fees bears this out, in the end everybody looses. :mad:
Southerner,That's exactly what I did. Took the civil service test,quit the dealership,took a job with the DOT fixing trucks,put in my time,and now am happily retired at 55 and still drawing a nice check each month. I'd be 80 before I could save enough to get the same each month had I stayed with a dealership. Hank
when i worked at the caddy, olds dealer, they didn't go by, but one book, factory time and they didn't care how old the car was. i beat the book all day long. they didn't know it, but i'd worked on those cars for nothing. but with a good attitude it made me money. mechanics bitching about book time has been around sense there was cars. some can make a good living at it and some can't. i did. i took the good with the bad and it worked out fine. :HMMM: :3dSMILE: i'm talking when shop rate was 12.00 hr., i got 1/2. they paid me 45.00 to rebuild a 400 trans. if it came back you did it over for nothing. :CRY:
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgrinder
Gee, if it's that bad, why are you doing it???? Nothing worse then day after day going to a job you dislike..... I seriously doubt if all the customers suck any more then all flat rate mechanics are rip offs.... Just cuz you got a burr under your saddle, no reason to be implying that we all our lazy just because we bring our car in for service that the manufacturer has listed as a warranty item. Would seem your issues should be with the manufacturer, not with the folks who bring their cars to the dealership you work in and in effect pay your salary!!!!:( :(
every shop i've had anything to do with, if it was 10 mechanics in the shop, 50 hr. week, working com., 3 would turn 65 hrs. a week, 4 would turn 45 hrs. and the other 3 would turn 35 hrs. all were qualified and there was plenty of work. the bottom three blamed it on everything you could imagine. :rolleyes: :HMMM:
I'm showing 3.3 hrs on the wires and 1.8 on the plugs....
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