Thread: Stick welder questions

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Chaz, just a suggestion. Since the strength of a frame is so important, why don't you do what I always have done, tack it up and have someone who knows how to really weld finish it. I know that isn't what you want to do, but this is one area you can't take chances with.

Maybe you can even find somebody at the local VoTech who will stop by and do it right there at your place. You can slip them a few bucks and watch how they do it (But only if you also wear a mask ). You can have everything preclamped and ground clean, ready for them to just finish welding.

Give this some serious thought, please, as the last thing you want is for your frame to break when you are driving the car. With a little work you can find someone to do this for you. Then you can tackle some less significant parts yourself.

Don

The frame is 1/8" thick, 6" C-channel laid over top of each other. The little pc. that I welded up as a test (pic up a few posts) is exactly what I will be welding. I had no control over the v, it had to do with the bend in the c channel. Two local guys who have built a few hotrods were over last night and were actually pretty impressed with the test on the frame rails I did. I am going to weld the rail front and back, then box the back, and put fish plates on front and back. I think part of the problem I was having is I was cleaning the metal up with a knotted wire wheel. Last night I actually used a stone and it seemed to weld easier. Maybe the wheel wasn't cleaning it up well enough?

I was originally going to tack everything together with my dads wire feed mig and have someone finish it up, but I would really like to do this myself. I am willing to spend the time learning and practicing until I feel I can tackle this safely.

CHAZ

Yeah Chaz, I wasn't trying to say anything about your welds, but do you really want your very first welding project to be the frame? Especially where the frame has been cut in half and is being rejoined at a Z ? Maybe some minor brackets or whatever, but the welds you are talking about here are very critical and will be stressed anyway by the fact they are on a kickup.

The frame is the foundation for the entire build, and it takes a great amount of stress and flexing. You see that I didn't even attempt to weld the frame for my bucket myself, and I have welded for years.............not pretty welds, but mine do hold. I didn't mind stepping aside and letting my Son do this for me because it is so important to get this part of the build done correctly and strong.

To answer the one part of your question, yes, you have to grind the steel until it is shiny clean to get good welds.

Please rethink the welding issue until you have more experience.

Don

....Chaz, your welds don't look bad, I think your getting the 'hang' of it .... I'm having trouble thinking of how to word this so it makes sence but if your ossolating in & out of your puddle then try to get a more steady flowing back & forth motion. No quick jerks in or out of your puddle. Just smoothly in & out at one speed.... If your not ossolating then work on keeping your rod steadier. Are you using your left hand to hold & steady the rod???
Oh, did you run a wide bead over a smaller bead in the bottom picture??? If so then try this instead; try running what they call 'stringer' beads. Instead of running a large weave bead over your root pass do two or more stringer beads. When you do this, after you do your root pass, then you run two beads over the one root pass. Side by side, with one bead overlapping the other. But keep in mind that your main strength is going to be in the quality of your root pass, NOT in running bead after bead over the top. Why don't you post a picture of your frame??? {a full shot of it} I'd like to see exactly what type of joints you'll be welding, what possition, etc.... Your doing a good job ,,, Keep it up! Bill
Oh & remember when you fish plate DON'T weld it on by welding horizontally on the frame. Just plate so that your welds will be at a 45 degree angle to the frame.....
My favorite thing to use to clean up welds is a small Maketta grinder w/ a stainless steel brush on it....

I got 1# of 7014 3/32 electrodes to try. They go really fast, but they look nice and smooth when they are finished. I ran them on the same current (90 amps) as the 1/8 inch 6013's and it seemed to work pretty well. What I am thinking now is I could run the joint with the 6013 electrode, and then chip it and grind it down a little and finish it off with the 7014? That would be just the outside of the frame where I have the deep v formed by the bevels of the frame.

Now, for the other welds I need. What is the correct procedure for "boxing plates?" I know to get them where I need them, and then tack them so they stay. If I have the plates flush when I weld them the weld will stick up proud and the fish plates won't lay flat against the newly boxed rails will they? Should I bevel the boxing plates and rails so there is a v to fill with weld?

CHAZ

.....Cool Chaz your on a roll ..... yep that'll work, 6013 root pass. clean it up & then run 7014 for a cover pass.
If your putting fish plates {diamond plate} on then; Grind the weld down smooth {don't overgrind} with the frame so the fish plate lays flat. No don't 'v' grove the fish plates or existing frame that's overkill without a doubt..... I'm not familar with 7014 but if the welding store recommened it it'll be great..... The numbers on the rod mean; the '70' is 70,000 pounds of tensil strength. The '1' is the possition {'1' being all possition, '2' is flat & horz.}, the '4' is the material that the coating is made out of. '4' I believe is an iron coating??? or is it still a low hydrogen rod as 7018 & 7016 is??? or both???.... {It must be similar to 7024 which they use in the ship yards a lot. On 7024 the slag just rolls up & off of your bead as you weld}. And remember not to weld fish plates on with ANY vert. welds. In other words the welds that hold the fish plates on will be at a 45 degree angle to the frame.
Woops forgot to talk about boxing the frame; I'd just cut the pieces to go just inside of the frame. And I wouldn't run 6013 & 7014 on this. Overkill again. Just one or the other. Just set the plate into the frame the width of the weld. A 1/4" or so. That's the way I'D do it.... You could also cut the boxing plates so you had a 'v' grove {at the top & bottom} to weld them in, but I wouldn't do this. Seems to me as if this is A LOT of extra, un-necessary work..... Good luck Bill

.....Chaz, not sure if your confussed on this or not but; a fish plate {they also call this diamond plating}is a plate that you put over an existing weld to re-inforce it. This is a piece of steel that is cut in a diamond like shape, or can be a square piece that you put on at a 45 degree angle to the frame. You would grind the weld that you are covering so the plate would lay flat on the frame. You don't want any 45 degree welds on this. Re-read what Classickustoms wrote in #4 suggestion in his post.........
Diamond plate is steel that has a diamond patern on it. This pattern keeps you from slipping if you walk on it when it gets wet. They use it on steps that are on 18 Wheeler Trucks {plus lots of other things}. Nothing to do with fish plating a frame OTHER than the fact that fish plating a frame can ALSO be called diamond plating a frame.....
Boxing plates are what go inside of your existing frame for support {this I know you know}......
I'm not sure if this was possibably confussing you or not.... just wanted to make sure..... bill

I think I actually had those terms (diamond plate, fish plate, and boxing plates) pretty well sorted out. I am waiting for my dad to get me all the steel that I will need. I am still practicing about every night until I get the steel, then I am going to "have at" the frame and see how it goes.
CHAZ

Originally Posted by hoof

I think I actually had those terms (diamond plate, fish plate, and boxing plates) pretty well sorted out. I am waiting for my dad to get me all the steel that I will need. I am still practicing about every night until I get the steel, then I am going to "have at" the frame and see how it goes.
CHAZ

.....LOL, ok then I WAS the one who was confussed!!! Hey it's good to laugh at yourself, isn't it??? Yeah after reading back through the posts I GOT confussed so I guess I just figured everyone was! Hey your doing a good job, keep practing.... ;0 Bill

The 'standard' tint is too dam dark!


Theres a reason there that dark, a #10 shade is standard for doing steel, if you do aluminum with that you will burn your eyes, dont skimp when it comes to your eyes, you can never replace them, also buy a good welding resperator the fumes are horrible on your lungs

Thats what im saying, dont skimp , was the 100$ savings worth a lifetime of vision? buy a quality hood, its a one time investment, think about it, is 300$ alot when you consider once your eyes go bad youll spend $150-500 every 2 years for the rest of your life for glasses

Yep, I agree. His is one of the Millers with the flames on it and all that jazz, and I knew there were other knobs inside of it, but just never thought of trying to adjust anything. I have learned to automatically push the restart button each time I pick it back up because the darned thing shuts off automatically after a few minutes, and I have flashed myself a few times until I wised up.

Don

I have one of those auto dark lense sheilds from harbor freight,works just fine & never had a flash from it ,I bought it to just try it out & found out for the price its a hellavu deal.
I know several ironworkers,pipefitters & boilermakers who use them at work all the time now because if you drop & break it you didnt lose much money compared to a 300.00 miller speedglass
I have the miller speedglass i use for xray welds on boiler tubes,nuclear power plant welding etc & TIG welding but have found the cheapy works just as good
All types of lenses & sheilds & safety glasses have to meet the OSHA Z81 standard before being offered to the public for sale & the HF sheild meets these standards,it is a 1/25000 millisecond change,the miller speedglass is a 1/16000 millisecond
One thing i dont suggest wasting your money on is the sheild lense that look like a mirrored gold or chrome,I know from experience if its scratched the SLIGHTEST bit you will get weld flash & the thing is you dont even know youve lost the protection from it because the scratch can be so slight you dont even see it unless looking very closely
Always wear at least a pair of clear lense safety glasses behind your sheild,you wouldnt think it gives any protection from the UV rays but it does,very slight but it does
When im welding in the outside in the sunlight of day i use a lighter lense & wear dark safety glasses behind it just for the fact when were on the jobsite we have to wear safety glasses 100% of the time
On the adjustments on an auto always remember if what you are welding at the time if the puddle looks like a big bright light its not dark enough,the proper darkness is when you can actualy see the ripples in the weld puddle itself
Another thing to consider is a cheater lense,its like a pair of reading glasses behind the weld lense,as we all get older we need reading glasses to read a newspaper or book,this also apllies when welding,if you dont see the puddle & it seems to be just big glob of blurry light.maybe you should try a cheater lense,can get them at any weld supplier

.....you know I've never even tried an auto darkening helmet. I know when I put a #10 lens in my regular helmet that it gives me #10 protection. I also know that if I put a #9 lens in that I've got #9 lens protection. But w/ an auto darkening helmet how do you know exactly what you have??? I've never even looked at them closely, I know nothing about them. As Classickustoms stated in his previous post, you just adjust until you see the ripples in the weld, do you do this with all of the auto helmets or do some of them have actual settings with numbers on them??? Thanks, Bill

I have used the auto darkening helmets in the past.I have also read over and over that they are not fast enough to block the initial flash on start up. So know I stay with the old style dark lense.