Thread: 27 chevy p/u

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Billy your comments about your steering repairs concern me a great deal-------

If your king pins /bushings /thrust bearings were installed and fitted properly should in no way make your steering difficult----------If you have a tight spot any where in the area of the spindles you have a very serious and dangerous not only to you and your passengers but also to others on the road------

Proper steering feed back from the road is vital in the stability of all steering systems and the slightest tight spot with diminish that feedback enough to make a vehicle unstabile---

However, if your stiffness is just a condition of bad caster/camber angles, king pin inclination to tire patch contact patch, scrub angles-----------

your post concerns me.
what exactly would fail that would kill me or others?

Originally Posted by billy zz

your post concerns me.
what exactly would fail that would kill me or others?

Billy,
Maybe rather talk in generalities you can post exactly what you found to be wrong, in detail, and exactly what you did to correct the problems encountered. Pictures would probably help a bunch, but after the fact may not be possible. Just trying to get past the OMG point here.

I've had king pin jobs that have been a bit harder to steer afterwards and they got better after a few times around the block. The only thing I could come up with was the tighter tolerances of new parts. I generally use stainless inserts on the medium duty up trucks and they are much tighter than a bronze bushing. But they last a lot longer as well.

Originally Posted by 40FordDeluxe

I've had king pin jobs that have been a bit harder to steer afterwards and they got better after a few times around the block. The only thing I could come up with was the tighter tolerances of new parts. I generally use stainless inserts on the medium duty up trucks and they are much tighter than a bronze bushing. But they last a lot longer as well.

i just got back from the store and it has loosened up almost back to the way it was before.
no bump steer
no wandering on crowned roads
potholes dont do anything untoward.
i never did have a speed wobble problem.
jerry
i appreciate your concern and i wish you were here to take a good look at what exactly i am running.
yours is the 1st negative comment i have received from anyone
be it the internet or my many professional mechanic buddies.
i am NOT saying you are wrong
but i do wish you could take a peek in person.

Just about any thing on your front axle/suspension steering is highly questionable plus the fact that steering systems have a lot of stability/feedback designed into them that your discussions on here seem to indicate that yours is out of any range of anything proper for being on the highway.

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Just about any thing on your front axle/suspension steering is highly questionable plus the fact that steering systems have a lot of stability/feedback designed into them that your discussions on here seem to indicate that yours is out of any range of anything proper for being on the highway.

i had no idea that my suicide front end
would actually make me commit suicide or possibly manslaughter.
i better just crush the vehicle before someone gets hurt.

I had typed out a pretty lengthy response, taking several previous peoples posts item by item, with your response toward them , specific areas that the pics you posted showed-----and ending in that you were a parts changer and that the work was being done for $15 hour by a dirt track racer friend----but evidently the site took a time out for 45 minutes or so---------I'll just leave it stand that you have many areas of construction on this vehicle that should disqualify it for being on public roads--

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

I had typed out a pretty lengthy response, taking several previous peoples posts item by item, with your response toward them , specific areas that the pics you posted showed-----and ending in that you were a parts changer and that the work was being done for $15 hour by a dirt track racer friend----but evidently the site took a time out for 45 minutes or so---------I'll just leave it stand that you have many areas of construction on this vehicle that should disqualify it for being on public roads--

Jerry
i have NEVER said i was any sort of a mechanic in any of my posts on this website.
on the contrary.
i have stated in no uncertain terms that i am not more than once.
when i read your first post i thought .
wow maybe this jerry guy has caught something that everyone else missed.
i better see what he has to say.
but it turns out you may very well be just a laptop world expert master mechanic.
i dont know because i dont know you.
but i DO know ,that as far as the safety of this vehicle goes
the colorado state patrol
the new mexico motor vehicle department
and every mechanic that has seen it in person.
have all given it a clean bill of health.
so excuse me if your opinion means nothing to me.

I guess Karma and Divine Providence were in play!! Since Bill has many professional mechanics that he's associated with who have seen the vehicle in person, and it passes their inspection.. I don't see why or how you can condemn a ride just by a series of pictures!

Billy, the style of your ride may or may not be what some people dream of having for themselves, but it's what you like and you're having fun with it so that's what matters. Then again, mine may not be what others want either, but that's OK, too. I don't have the experience that many others here do, but I've never seen anything on your build that I questioned from a safety standpoint or I would have said something about it at the time so it could be considered and either changed or defended as it was being done. The beauty of this type of forum, IMO, is that most people offer constructive criticisms when they see something wrong, but leave room for the creative approach that make rides unique and individual. If they were all built from the same set of plans using the same parts it would be pretty boring.

Originally Posted by rspears

Billy, the style of your ride may or may not be what some people dream of having for themselves, but it's what you like and you're having fun with it so that's what matters. Then again, mine may not be what others want either, but that's OK, too. I don't have the experience that many others here do, but I've never seen anything on your build that I questioned from a safety standpoint or I would have said something about it at the time so it could be considered and either changed or defended as it was being done. The beauty of this type of forum, IMO, is that most people offer constructive criticisms when they see something wrong, but leave room for the creative approach that make rides unique and individual. If they were all built from the same set of plans using the same parts it would be pretty boring.

i love this site.
i come here everyday before work and read about how things work.
the people are very helpful and supportive.
and i have learned a ton of stuff.

Billy
as I stated, I had a typed out a pretty lengthy post but it seems that the site was down or not responsive for about 30-45 minutes and it didn't post----
My shorter version probably doesn't get the same results because I had mentioned that in some post you had said you were a parts changer or something similar(Ihave went thru all 21 pages looking at pics, reading posts, and reading your other posts on this site twice now )
I had referanced several specific posts as to what was shown with some detail (posts 60,86,221 are just 3 that I happen to remember the post number, but I won't go back again) I do remember that one of them showed some wire wheels that showed the required backspacing for your spindles and there were other post/pics showing some other wheels you got and painted that were totally out of spec for your needed backspacing except all the talk was about the bright red paint job you and how well oven cleaner works as a cleaning agent.
There was different posts about bump steer and wobble and that you didn't have any, then a post saying you did have bump steer and later that you hadn't had any-----
there were pics and posts about the pitman arm and how it was welded without any reinforcement
You talked about kingpin bushings upside down, tight steering, changed steering boxes mounting 3 times, oversized king pins, welded on back side of axle but no mention of what the caster was set at??????no cross link to position the axle???somewhere you mentioned you had mounted a stabilizor????

I sincerely believe you have a rod with a unique look and have been keeping this site up to speed on its build for 3 years now---there are several posts with comments about the work being done and your posts have either disregarded them or been lightly dicussed-------

Your comments about the NM and Co -------------wow, everybody thats trying to license a rod will be going out there-----

I think maybe you and others that aren't happy with my posts should go back and review the entire 21 pages plus your other posts here and look at the fab details up close----areas od particular concern are where suspension links to frame that are single shear un reinforced tabs---

And I won't even go into the fact that there was a lengthy discussion about the motor mounts breaking and that after a lengthy period you discovered that your trans was low and you found the trans mount broken also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I will not go into any of my qualifications------many on here know of my background and might want chime in but preferr to keep the site civil as I do to--------------however, I cannot set here and read 3 years of a build so blatantly substandard that it shouldn't be allowed off the trailer at a car show--------


I just read Rogers post and a specific item/area that I want to point out that even he will probably agree is that on your rear end assy mounting(there were some posts on the rear) it will fail at the mounting point to the frame or the rod end of the links as the assy is in a terrific bind on every turn/leaning corner or unequal weight transfer corner to corner

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

....I just read Rogers post and a specific item/area that I want to point out that even he will probably agree.....

Now that's either an outright insult or a backhanded compliment, not sure which.

Billy,
I did go back and scroll through the posts, and while I didn't say anything originally I did note at the time that Howard (hworrell) pointed out two things that I agreed would be a concern to me. First was welding the ladder bars to the rear end housing without wrapping the tube - Howard cited two personal failures due to the stresses of that joint causing the rear end tubes to fail. Second was the welded pitman arm without any gussetting or reinforcement - I thought I remembered posting some pictures of a method I'd seen on Jeeps, but it must have been on a different thread, but I recall that I agreed with Howard's comments. I think you said that you would pass on both thoughts to your friend doing the build, but from later photo's it appears he did not see them as problems, so you've made your choice.

I did notice two other things on the rear end that I would probably look at again if it were mine. On the coilovers, I'd really prefer to see a pair of mounting tabs welded onto the frame up top, with a Grade 8 bolt going through both and the upper eye. It'll probably be fine like it is, but it would be better with a second tab, or at least some healthy gussets on the single tab. Second is your front frame mount on the traction bars. That connection point sees pure vertical movement, as when both rear wheels rise & fall equally, but it also must allow a twisting movement, to reflect the full flex of the coil overs, one up fully, the other down fully, like a Heim Joint. From your pictures it appears that there is a through bolt on the tubing, which does not seem to provide anything other than a pure up and down motion without binding. I wouldn't think any of these things will be a concern for your Colorado trip, as I expect that you're going to be doing easy cruising over nice mountain roads, and not punishing the chassis. When you get home you might want to have a bull session with some of your car guy buddies, and see if they share any concerns with these three areas. The modifications for all three are relatively easy to accomplish, should you choose to do any of them.

Hope you have a great trip!

Originally Posted by rspears

Now that's either an outright insult or a backhanded compliment, not sure which.

Billy,
I did go back and scroll through the posts, and while I didn't say anything originally I did note at the time that Howard (hworrell) pointed out two things that I agreed would be a concern to me. First was welding the ladder bars to the rear end housing without wrapping the tube - Howard cited two personal failures due to the stresses of that joint causing the rear end tubes to fail. Second was the welded pitman arm without any gussetting or reinforcement - I thought I remembered posting some pictures of a method I'd seen on Jeeps, but it must have been on a different thread, but I recall that I agreed with Howard's comments. I think you said that you would pass on both thoughts to your friend doing the build, but from later photo's it appears he did not see them as problems, so you've made your choice.

I did notice two other things on the rear end that I would probably look at again if it were mine. On the coilovers, I'd really prefer to see a pair of mounting tabs welded onto the frame up top, with a Grade 8 bolt going through both and the upper eye. It'll probably be fine like it is, but it would be better with a second tab, or at least some healthy gussets on the single tab. Second is your front frame mount on the traction bars. That connection point sees pure vertical movement, as when both rear wheels rise & fall equally, but it also must allow a twisting movement, to reflect the full flex of the coil overs, one up fully, the other down fully, like a Heim Joint. From your pictures it appears that there is a through bolt on the tubing, which does not seem to provide anything other than a pure up and down motion without binding. I wouldn't think any of these things will be a concern for your Colorado trip, as I expect that you're going to be doing easy cruising over nice mountain roads, and not punishing the chassis. When you get home you might want to have a bull session with some of your car guy buddies, and see if they share any concerns with these three areas. The modifications for all three are relatively easy to accomplish, should you choose to do any of them.

Hope you have a great trip!

i did wrap the axle
i have a reversed corvair box with new pitman arm
that is a heim joint (it doesnt look like it in the pic)
and i will beef up the coil over mounts.
thanks for the concern/info/advice!

when i get back i will post some better pics of what is going on with everything.

Originally Posted by billy zz

i did wrap the axle
i have a reversed corvair box with new pitman arm
that is a heim joint (it doesnt look like it in the pic)
and i will beef up the coil over mounts.
thanks for the concern/info/advice!

when i get back i will post some better pics of what is going on with everything.

Good deal on the axle, pitman arm and front traction bar joints!! Hope your trip goes well, and that you and your girl have a wonderful time cruising the mountains. I'm currently getting very jealous of your trip!!