Thread: Painting without a spray gun

Tweet

It seems I'm the last one to hear about the roll on Rust-Oleum paint job.
Hot Rod article
It's got me thinking. Does anybody know any details about how painting was done with brushes in the 20's and 30's?

Yes, I know a little. I used to teach Auto Body Repair and one of my books gave a brief history. Let me see if I can remember. I know the basics; some of my dates/times may be a bit off... Very early automobiles were painted with a mixture of varnish and lampblack (soot). Some early enamels were not compatible with metal and not very durable, but varnish would stick to anything and was tough. The only color available, of course, was black and, since it was not completely opaque, required several coats. The painters would apply a coat of the mixture, let it dry 24 - 36 hours, rub it smooth with pumice and wet rags (there was no such thing as ultra-fine wet/dry sandpaper), and apply another coat. The final coat was polished with finer and finer pumice and then waxed/buffed (by hand - there were no power buffers) to a high shine. The average paint job required six to eight coats and took about six weeks!

By the early 1920's, alkyd enamels were becoming more common and gaining in durability. For the most part, they were still applied with a brush and polished by hand with pumice & rags. The fenders were still being painted with varnish and lampblack because that was the part of the car that took the most abuse and varnish was still the most durable finish.

By the mid-1920's, spray equipment was becoming more common and that helped to dramatically speed up the painting process (from six weeks down to just a few days). Nitrocellulose (sp?) lacquer was available, but, because of inferior components, it did not have a good gloss. (Henry Ford used lacquer on the Model-T because it was fast and cheap which kept the retail price of the car down. Model-T's up through about 1925 were all black and had a satin finish. If you see a restored early Model-T with a mirror finish, it's not "correct".)

By the late 1920's, alkyd enamel and nitrocellulose lacquer had both improved and were available in many colors. (Starting in 1926, you could get a Model-T in colors other than black.) Automotive paints have improved steadily over the years up to what we have today. Modern paints are many times more durable than what we began with. Unfortunately, paint prices are tied directly to oil prices (paint is a petroleum product), so everything has gone through the roof in recent years...

One other note: my father told me once years ago that, before the days of Earl Schieb, Sears Automotive Centers used to paint cars very economically. The process used special applicators that resembled a mop! He said that they "didn't look too bad"... Anybody ever heard of that?

I found a lot more information than I was looking for! At least as far as Ford goes http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#paint2

The mop applicatore sounds pretty interesting. I wonder how much sanding it required?

I heard that the cheapest way to paint your car is with your toothbrush. :-)

(Just kidding.......but I wonder how many will try it?)

Don't know much about it, but I betcha by the time you get done wet sanding it smooth enough to get any kind of decent finish, you'll sure wish you would of used a spray gun!!!!!

I will use a hudson sprayer ,before I will brush or roll again..............

I can't imagine a roll on top final coat of paint - especially Rust-O-leum. It's hard enough to get consistant film coverage with a decent spray gun, a roller would be impossible. Just think of painting a wall in your house. When you load the roller from the pan, the paint on the first stroke is fairly heavy with each suceeding pass it is thinner. A tooth brush is too stiff, but I have some $.69 chip brushes that are perfect.

I do recall my father painting his '41 Chevy using some pads similar to my wife's powder puffs. I was too young to remember the quality, but do recall my parents not being overjoyed with the results and talking about it years later after a new car.

Hot Rod Magazine has had, IMO, credibility problems for many years and something like this sure doesn't strengthen my opinion. If I can 'read' it once in the barber shop, that's my diet for the year of their trendy ricer language.

I am curious why they thinned the paint so much and then spent so much time sanding out runs before applying additional coats. Seems to me that it would be better to leave the paint a bit thicker, apply the first coat, let it dry 24 - 48 hrs, wet sand it, and apply a final coat. After about a month it should be cured enough to wet-sand and buff out the brush marks...

Regardless, I'll leave it to someone else to try. I have several nice spray guns out in the garage.

What about cheap paint, though? Has anybody tried any of the industrial enamels that are available at places like Lowe's or Home Depot?

From what I've heard of Rust-O-Leum it might be a good cheap paint job now but if they decide to use good paint in the future, the whole car may need to be taken down to the metal. Rust-O-Leum has fish oil in it and fish oil bleeds thru other paints and products. So it has to be completely removed prior to repainting with any thing other then more Rust-O-Leum or similar paint.

I guess I could have been told wrong, so I will refer this issue to the skilled painters.

Originally Posted by mopar34

From what I've heard of Rust-O-Leum it might be a good cheap paint job now but if they decide to use good paint in the future, the whole car may need to be taken down to the metal. Rust-O-Leum has fish oil in it and fish oil bleeds thru other paints and products. So it has to be completely removed prior to repainting with any thing other then more Rust-O-Leum or similar paint.

I guess I could have been told wrong, so I will refer this issue to the skilled painters.

Bob,
I think they did away with the fish oil additive and are just using standard solvents now.

Dave - That's good to know. At least for when I re-paint my lawn furniture. Still wouldn't use it for anything I would would want to be seen in or on in public.

Thanks

I was pretty fascinated by that story when I first saw it on the net a year or two back. From the pictures of the Charger it doesn't look too bad at all (gloss might be down a bit), but I'd like to see it in person. Bottom line though, the worst part of painting (IMO) is the bodywork. Once that gets done correctly it seems like using a gun would be a lot faster.

Just a note about Model T colors, see the link
http://www.modelt.org/rpaint.html
The original Model T colors were not black on the body,
the colors changed from year to year. In 1915, they went
to black to keep the cost down (black was the cheapest). Note that a lot of the early colors were very dark and looked almost black. After 1925, Henry had to catch up with the competition and introduced colors again. Model A Fords were not availaible in Black in 28/29, see this link:
http://www.ahooga.com/info/black.shtml

Note that the fender color was usually black, regardless of the body color....

Originally Posted by mopar34

Dave - That's good to know. At least for when I re-paint my lawn furniture. Still wouldn't use it for anything I would would want to be seen in or on in public.

Thanks

Bob,
This is what's in the normal Home Despot stuff:

Chemical Name CAS Number Weight % Less ThanACGIH TLV-TWA ACGIH TLV-STEL OSHA PEL-TWA OSHA PEL-CEILING
Stoddard Solvents 8052 -41-3 55.0 100 PPM N.E. 500 PPM N.E.
Magnesium Silicate 14807-96-6 25.0 10 mg/m3 N.E. 15 mg/m3 N.E.
Titanium Dioxide 13463-67-7 20.0 10 mg/m3 N.E. 10 mg/m3 N.E.
Calcined Aluminum Silicate 1332 -58-7 20.0 2 mg/m3 N.E. 5 mg/m3 N.E.
Pigment Yellow 74 6358 -31-2 5.0 N.E. N.E. N.E. N.E.
Pigment Violet 32 12225-08-0 5.0 N.E. N.E. N.E. N.E.
Pigment Black 7 1333 -86-4 5.0 3.5 mg/m3 N.E. 3.5 mg/m3 N.E.

I just wanted to be sure I hadn't stuck my foot somewhere wher it shouldn't be - again

I've painted two boats (34' & 21'), a couple of Waverunners, and a pickup with a roller/brush combo. All turned out flawless with no wetsanding or polishing required. It just take time (lots), technique, and a good quality paint system designed for this type of application. I used US Paints Awl Grip which is similar to Imron, just a newer formula (and different manufacturer).

The Awl Grip paint requires 4 parts be mixed whether rolled or sprayed. A color base, the clear catalyst, a reducer, and an accelerator. The catalyst and reducer are specific to spraying or brushing.

There are several advantages to rolling. It's cheap (disregarding your time), 1-2 quarts is enough for a typical car. I used less than 1 quart for a 21' boat. Cost was around $100 for all materials involved. No clean-up afterwards aside from throwing the roller sleeves and brushes into the trash can.

You must paint in the shade. If not the paint will not have time to lay out before it dries and cures. You MUST do this with plenty of ventillation, again under a canvas in your driveway works well. LP paints contain nasties which can hurt you if inhaled.

You must thin it properly and adjust the reducer as you are painting. The reducer is evaporating as you paint, don't mix at the start and assume it will be constant during the process. Roll a small area at a time, maybe 3' x 3', then follow it up with a brush. Vertical brushstrokes on vertical surfaces. Horizontal brushstrokes cause runs. Use light brushstrokes, all you're trying to do is remove the small bubbles that are formed by the cut open cells of the roller sleeve. Use a foam roller sleeve with no more than 1/8th thick foam. Any thicker and you'll load up too much paint. When you've applied a coat, LEAVE IT ALONE! Don't sit there playing with it. The paint will level itself and pull the surface taute as it dries.

Cheers, Mark