Thread: Everybody that is currently building a car...

Tweet

Don, I've been very reluctant to say the things I'm about to say, but part of what we all hope for here is that others will learn from our travels down whatever path we take. Please take my comments in the spirit intended as I have considerable respect for your taking on such a project given your self expressed modest level of experience building a car from the ground up. What you're bumping up against, in part, is what causes experienced builders to completely (or at least as best they can determine )build the car, and solve such problems as this, BEFORE painting. Many "new" builders would do well to read your posts from the beginning to see how a neophyte can make a measured and informed set of choices in the building process.

I don't have any first hand words of advice on this particular column as I (personal choice only) don't like a column with the ignition switch in it (for an early rod anyway). The column I typically use is the earlier version of what you have (pre-68). With that I have to cut off the stock mounting stuff and slide the remaining "guts" into a piece of tubing (exhaust) to which the drop is welded. Perhaps, depending on what you want for placement, the section of cover that, in your picture, is the bottom of the three "sleeves" could be removed and something similar be done. Also, there's a prefab cover to clean up the lower part of the column available; http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm .

Under that cover should be a steel "outer" colum, with the colapsible section formed on it or within it. You may be able to attach a drop to that as they are typically around ~2". Hopefully someone else will have an exact app to yours, if not, even though they're fairly different, I'll post a pic of my columns (one from the 36 the other in bare working form from the 32 coupe) with the modifications noted above to use as "inspiration" since it's not an exact duplicate of what you have.

Thanks Bob, I have purchased that plastic cover for most of the column but the mfgr recommends chiseling off any mounting bolt/nuts and I have not done this yet. I could have used your pictures earlier, but as of now I think I will just use two stout angle straps that can be painted and fasten them to the stock bolt/nuts on the outer part of the column and use the black plastic sheath to cover the lower part of the column. Maybe when I get the thing set up at the bottom as well as the top I can chisel off the extra mount points and trim the plastic sheath to cover most of it. Your columns look great and I did not know you could get them so smooth. On the other hand I suppose I am going to spend quite a bit of time down there under the dash checking out the wiring so part of the problem is figuring out the wiring before I tuck it under the black sheath. It seems to me that if I slip the lock/cap ring over the bottom of the column, the sheath can be "rolled" on and off the column in place and then the bottom lock ring can be pushed up after I get the wiring settled. Another problem is that my brake pedal is very close to the last flat space on the floor/firewall. I ordered the simple type swing mount from Speedway today and it looks like I will only be able to bolt half of the mount to the floor/frewall and I will have to remove the other side of the mount and let the round hole be the other side of the bottom mount if I can cut it out carefully on a rounded surface. Still another problem is that the accelerator pedal is in a sort of "short" position and extension of my right leg wil be limited due to the size of the Model A cockpit, although I am of average height (5' 10"). Thanks for your patience. As several Forum members have said the second or third rod benefits from the learning experience of the first but at this point I will have to settle for "functional".

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Bob, I ran out of space in the previous post. What are the chances that if I destroy/remove that lower plastic sleeve there will be that smooth tapered steel part underneath, the "tulip" shaped part of the column?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teenrodder

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Bob, I ran out of space in the previous post. What are the chances that if I destroy/remove that lower plastic sleeve there will be that smooth tapered steel part underneath, the "tulip" shaped part of the column?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teenrodder

As I mentioned I'm not real familiar with that vintage column, but my guess would be not very good for smooth under those covers. The column I use had any number of holes, mostly long rectangular, plus the crush zone for colapsing column (my inventory consisted of '67 columns). That's what the tubing was for, it made a smooth sheath. Also, and maybe you meant this and were just using shortcut phrasing, but those brackets are spot welded on. I always drill out the centers of the weld before "chiseling", that minimizes potential for damage.

I would hope your body has some provision for reinforcing the firewall where you're planning to hang the brake pedal. There's a lot of force exerted there and over time a fiberglass only mounting will very likely crack. Not good!

BTW, the 20th rod benefits from all previous ones. The learning never seems to stop! And as I said in another thread the other night; Experience = being able to recognize mistakes you've made before more quickly!

Bob, Thanks for your comments and interest. My brake is mounted on the left frame rail and the pedal has a zigzag in the pedal arm to move it over to the right but that is no more than an inch, plus a careless young man chopped out a ragged hole in the floor around the brake pedal when the top body was mounted at the paint shop and I may have to reinforce this area. On the one hand I like the idea that my right foot will not be able to go to the left past the brake pedal due to the nearness of the steering column but it still leaves little room for more than a spoon accelerator on the right side. While this Forum is extremely valuable to me we still do not have perfect communication and I call your attention to my addition of the top mounts in the quarter panels behind the doors. The angle iron will be hidden by an upholstery panel but the mounts themselves will hopefully be mostly hidden under the knob of the top bow. This is the level of minimal craftsmanship that I can do and I know it is not show quality. I just hope it will come out to be clean and functional. Maybe I can fashion a shroud out of sheet metal to cover whatever strap mounts I come up with and just paint it to cover up the mounts. I have been able to use a large vise and pieces of angle iron as a metal brake for small parts as long as I usually discard the first effort as a learning experience and I think a metal shroud bent under the column to cover the mount is within my capability probably by the third try!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Thanks DennyW, you are always thinking! I live near a truck stop with several large shops, I'll check it out. If I could get a chrome or stainless clamp that might work and look good too.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Okay Don, I stumbled across this pic of a column that resembles yours that was mounted using the stock locations installed in a 26 T sedan. Roughly similar dimensions to your car, though steering box location may not be the same. Again, taste will play for how it's perceived for function and appearance.

Thanks Bob, That is another idea, to use the floor rug to cover the bottom of the column. I have been doing some research on column drops and it looks like I can find one of several drops that fasten by a split collar around the clear space right below the larger diameter plastic collar (now painted) and should look pretty good. A new problem which I just learned about is that the bottom edge of my replica '32 dash is curved up on each side. Speedway offers a column drop for '32s with an angled mount but only in a 5" drop. That seems too much to me. Then another problem is how to estimate where to cut the large hole in the firewall. I mocked up the shorty header on the driver side and there is a lot of uncertainty about where to cut that hole and end up with a good angle for the D-shaft down to the Vega box. With the column drop I can rectify a mistake with a different length drop but at the bottom end the place where I cut the hole is pretty irreversible. I am content having saved a lot on the column with only about $100 into the rebuilt, painted column compared to roughly $300 for an Ididit column so it seems appropriate to pay a little more for a billet drop and here is one based on a connecting rod idea that allows me to specify the diameter of the hole and the option for only one cutout for the wires:

http://www.jbmicrofinish.com/catalog_6.html

Maybe I can specify the angled mount for the bottom edge of the '32 dash. I would like to avoid a more vertical column because that puts the first universal in a large angle and I prefer a shallow angle. I may have to cut a hole larger vertically and use a scrap fiberglass collar to cover the unused part of the hole.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Without seeing what it looks like in person it's hard to say. But, if I were doing it I would get a small dia. wooden dowel (1/4'' or 3/8'' maybe) as long as it's straight, and then estimate the steering column drill through spot as best I could. Then drill a hole just big enough for the dowel. Slide the dowel through and check for alignment. If it's off a little dril another (small) hole to get it dialed in. Then once you have the centerline of the column located, draw a line around dowel on the firewall to the size needed. That way if you do miss judge, the most you will have to fill is 1 or 2 - 1/4'' or 3/8'' holes. Chances are though you'll be close enough that you will cut away all the trial holes when you make your final cut. Dunno' if I described that right, Hope it helps. I'm goin' out of town in a few minutes, so I hope this makes sense.

Pro70z28, That is sort of what I was thinking only better. I was planning to use a dowell from the vega box to make a mark on the firewall, but your idea of drilling smaller holes is better because then I will know where it comes through to the inside. Thanks, that's a great idea!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don, first I should mention that my putting up that picture was not an endorsement of what was done, it was merely to give you an idea of what COULD happen. While we often express a concern about the cost of components, justifiably, what can almost always "make or break" the result has more to do with what you do with it than what it cost. Personal opinion warning in my usual subtle manner. The guy could have easily put up a sign saying "I didn't think this through so tried to hide it with a wad of carpeting.........looks pretty tacky huh?" What has happened here is that a slipshod (appearance wise) column installation has become the focal point of an otherwise tasteful interior (and the rest of the car looked good too). It's the nose wart on an attractive woman thing. The bad visual element completely takes away from all the good that was done around it.

In another thread some mild pot shots were taken at expressions of admiration for Foose's work. The reason he gets the accolades is he "sweats" the details, and he has an eye for making a bunch of little details work together. We can't all be at his level, but with some effort we can do better than we would otherwise. I know what causes me to have lapses is when I get overly focused on "git er done" instead of thinking "how best to git er done". As brother Hulgas mentioned about his son...........he'll sit back and stare at something for a long time, visualizing how his idea will play. Then do a mockup and see if it works. Then the kicker...........don't be afraid to change it again if it's still not "right". You've invested a lot of time, effort, and money in what you've done so far...............some small extra amount more of the same will protect the balance. (end of sermon)

Pro's idea is one that a lot of us have probably done with good success as far as zeroing in on the location. I would only add that you want to take your time and "visualize" all the components involved, not just the narrow focus of column hole location. Make sure to allow for universal joint size around the manifolds for example and anything else you're dealing with.

My guess is you won't end up with much left foot room. At 34" your column may be a bit long for a Model A. There's not much door opening, as you know, and having a steering wheel/column eat up what you do have makes entry unpleasant. Steering wheel angle is always important for both comfort and appearance, and even more critical, placement wise, without tilt to act as a fudge factor. We've got several guys on here with '28/9's, hopefully they've got the same steering box setup (vega?) and can tell you how long their columns are, which could help you with a starting point for location.

Thanks Bob, I agree and I have already come close to scrapping the column I have but I am still thinking how to maybe make it work. I did more mockup and measurement this morning and at this point I think I can do it with only two universal joints, BUT ( ! ) I don't think I can use a column drop with this column since the hang point would be up into the plastic collar. I think I can use smooth steel angle iron to make two side brackets that can be fastened to the bottom of the dash and two of the bolt/nuts on the side of the column and then paint the smooth angle iron. I have found there is rough angle "iron" and smooth angle "steel" which looks a lot nicer and less "clunky" and this will be angled back into the area under the dash and painted to closely match the color (I found two cans of Duplicolor that is a good match to the body paint). The smooth steel angle should look OK and the column will appear to "float" out under the dash. Bob I have to tell you that I am going to make it look as good as I can but "perfect" is out of the question at this point and the main appearance judge is my wife. If it gets by her that is doing pretty well! Actually I think the 34" length helps get the end of the column down lower to avoid the header pipes. Thanks for your interest and the suggestion by Pro70Z28 was especially helpful.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

and I drove it to work today w/o insident..
Its a real experience driving..The brakes are weak and the car is LOUD..
Im tachin' 3000 at 50 and it burns thru gas quick.
BUT I get lots of SMILES per gallon.

Bob
97 LSC
67 Merc Caliente

The brakes are weak and the car is LOUD..



Sounds like a line out of the song "Hot rod Lincoln."

Don

Sounds a lot like most of them on there madin voyage.