Thread: One Way To Build A '32 Hyboy

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Yup, I'd say the heavier is better with the pump in there.... I've made them out of .060, almost too light especially if there is a possibility of road trash getting to it.... I'd like to find a deal on a sheet of .060" T6, looks good and welds even better, just getting so danged expensive......

You've definately got an eye for detail and it shows. I would love to have someone around to give me some input about some of the things you guys do naturally. I thought for so long how to mount my engine, now I want to cut them off and copy yours . That shop has got to be a nice place to work in, I gotta post a picture of what happened in mine over the last week, looks like I haven't cleaned up in about 5 years. I keep buying supplies only to find I already have them on my workbench.

Sean.

Gee, this is a beautiful build, but two years ago I got a lot of flack about a rear tank in my A with references to the old Pinto lawsuits. I am way down on the skill level but I was able to make a cardboard mockup and then paid quite a sum to Rock Valley to weld one up in 14 gauge stainless steel, compared to their usual use of thinner 16 gauge stainless. I do not know the exact thickness of the 14 guage stainless but I had to trim the tabs for the mounts and I burned up a small Mikuta grinder using it to cut through the stainless very slowly. I wanted to simulate a rumble seat and even added a 4" wide steel bar (0.25" thick) behind the tank for rear protection, so it surprises me that you have an aluminum tank down low. I can say that I recall building a 10' sailboat that was overbuilt to the point that it was too heavy to lift so I tend to overbuild, although at a lower level of skill compared to the work shown here. For what it is worth Rock Valley told me they have a display of one of their tanks that was in an accident and has a dent 1/3 the width of the tank and it did not leak! Hey your build is already about 1000 times better than mine but maybe you ought to reconsider use of aluminum in a low rear mounted tank? Check with Rock Valley they can use your existing patterns OR maybe I misunderstood you saying "aluminum" above? My tank came out to be on the small side at about 13.1 gallons U.S. but at the price of gas today that is still about $40/fillup. Relative to discussion of roadster weight on another thread, I realize while writing this that the 4" wide steel bar and stainless for the tank certainly did not reduce the weight of my roadster and I guess I am looking at 2500+ pounds total but there is a safety issue here and the stainless tank is my response.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

The main reason the Pinto tanks blew up was because there was a seam along the side that would pop open under a hard rear impact.... Nader's Raiders blew that entire thing out of proportion just like the Corvair "Unsafe at any speed" garbage..... The majority of cars on the road today have a rear mounted fuel tank made out of sheet metal......

I guess if Hot Rods were built with safety being the prime consideration they would all have roll bars, side impact bars, 5 mph bumpers, air bags, air curtains, collapsible steering columns....or we could all just buy Chrysler mini-vans.... We certainly wouldn't be running roadsters or anything with a 'glass body!!!!!! About 10 years ago or so a friend of mine got his car hit from behind by some idiot talking on a cell phone. His tank was an aluminum one that I had built for the car out of .060 aluminum... It crumpled up like a ball of aluminum foil--and didn't leak a drop.....

Heck, if it's your time to go your gonna go.... doesn't matter if the tank is aluminum or 1" thick boiler plate....

Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Gee, this is a beautiful build, but two years ago I got a lot of flack about a rear tank in my A with references to the old Pinto lawsuits. I am way down on the skill level but I was able to make a cardboard mockup and then paid quite a sum to Rock Valley to weld one up in 14 gauge stainless steel, compared to their usual use of thinner 16 gauge stainless. I do not know the exact thickness of the 14 guage stainless but I had to trim the tabs for the mounts and I burned up a small Mikuta grinder using it to cut through the stainless very slowly. I wanted to simulate a rumble seat and even added a 4" wide steel bar (0.25" thick) behind the tank for rear protection, so it surprises me that you have an aluminum tank down low. I can say that I recall building a 10' sailboat that was overbuilt to the point that it was too heavy to lift so I tend to overbuild, although at a lower level of skill compared to the work shown here. For what it is worth Rock Valley told me they have a display of one of their tanks that was in an accident and has a dent 1/3 the width of the tank and it did not leak! Hey your build is already about 1000 times better than mine but maybe you ought to reconsider use of aluminum in a low rear mounted tank? Check with Rock Valley they can use your existing patterns OR maybe I misunderstood you saying "aluminum" above? My tank came out to be on the small side at about 13.1 gallons U.S. but at the price of gas today that is still about $40/fillup. Relative to discussion of roadster weight on another thread, I realize while writing this that the 4" wide steel bar and stainless for the tank certainly did not reduce the weight of my roadster and I guess I am looking at 2500+ pounds total but there is a safety issue here and the stainless tank is my response.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don,
I agree with you, I always try to think about safety when I build something. But I have to be honest if I built IT based on what ifs, it would be really ugly. I always believe that no matter how hard you try, if you ever get "T" boned in one of these things you can probably kiss it good bye.
I do have frame work around my tank though.
Ken

Finally got the front suspension done. I'm running out of room, still have to put two radiator lines in and a air intake.
Ken

Here's a spur of the moment question.

Hey Ken, any thought on running anti roll bars on the front or back, or do you think the car is light enough to not warrant? I'm using a Heidts IFS/IRS and would value your opinion here.

Kitz

Originally Posted by kitz

Here's a spur of the moment question.

Hey Ken, any thought on running anti roll bars on the front or back, or do you think the car is light enough to not warrant? I'm using a Heidts IFS/IRS and would value your opinion here.

Kitz

Kitz,
Thanks for your confidence in my opinion. This is a subject that I'm an expert on.
Now this is how I do it. I always completely build the car and drive it in it's raw state. If it feels like it wants anti roll bars I put them on.
That is the only way I know how to do it. I have figured out the roll center on cars, center of gravity in relationship to the centerline of the spindles and axle, and about every other method that people have told me is the absolute way of determine this. The best way I have fond is, just the way I do it.
Sorry I'm not much help.
Ken

Ken, Part of my reason for the heavy gauge was that it will be a seat as well as a gas tank but I don't regret using the stainless for strength or corrosion resistance. With all that beautiful work I'm hoping you put a nice fifty's style nerf bar in the rear at least, just a suggestion.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Originally Posted by Ken Thurm

Kitz,
Thanks for your confidence in my opinion. This is a subject that I'm an expert on.
Now this is how I do it. I always completely build the car and drive it in it's raw state. If it feels like it wants anti roll bars I put them on.
That is the only way I know how to do it. I have figured out the roll center on cars, center of gravity in relationship to the centerline of the spindles and axle, and about every other method that people have told me is the absolute way of determine this. The best way I have fond is, just the way I do it.
Sorry I'm not much help.
Ken

What a coincidence, the same scientific approach I use!!! I conduct my "Does it need a sway bar" evaluation on this curvy road around the lake... On one particular curve, if I can come into it at 45 and have an exit speed of 55, no sway bar required..... Before I put the bar to the car, I also play around a bit with spring rates and shock valving.... If I do use a bar, I always use one with adjustable end links for adjustment...Figure if I have to carry the extra weight, might as well make it work!!!!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

What a coincidence, the same scientific approach I use!!! I conduct my "Does it need a sway bar" evaluation on this curvy road around the lake... On one particular curve, if I can come into it at 45 and have an exit speed of 55, no sway bar required..... Before I put the bar to the car, I also play around a bit with spring rates and shock valving.... If I do use a bar, I always use one with adjustable end links for adjustment...Figure if I have to carry the extra weight, might as well make it work!!!!

The nice thing about just going out and buying an IFS chassis like a TCI is you have a chance to check a box for a rear bar - the front is standard. They will just extract a few more bucks from you, with no questions asked. If I were to build my own, say with ASC rails and some carefully chosen components from 1 (800) HOT RODS, then my choices would be as you and Ken described. Regardless, I, personally, would probably still have one by the time I was done with the chassis build - I am all to aware of how adding one to a pick up truck and a heavier version to my '86 Mustang GT helped.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to drive my Mustang without both bars,,,, thing is with the lighter cars and the coilovers, so many other things to tweak and play around with, maybe the sway bar isn't necessary..... Guess I think of them as a handling improvement of last resort.... I'd really rather make up for the lean and roll with other methods of chassis tuning... My opinion of a sway bar is that it just transfers the problem to somewhere else....I've had the addition of a front bar lead to a loose condition on the rear, and sometimes even make the front end just dig in and push like an overloaded dump truck...... But I do like a rear bar, seems to make the car a bit easier to throttle steer.... I know, I should just grow up and quit over-driving everything I own!!!!!!! I just can't help it, the road racer wanna be in me just keeps coming out!!!!!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Yeah, I wouldn't want to drive my Mustang without both bars,,,, thing is with the lighter cars and the coilovers, so many other things to tweak and play around with, maybe the sway bar isn't necessary..... Guess I think of them as a handling improvement of last resort.... I'd really rather make up for the lean and roll with other methods of chassis tuning... My opinion of a sway bar is that it just transfers the problem to somewhere else....I've had the addition of a front bar lead to a loose condition on the rear, and sometimes even make the front end just dig in and push like an overloaded dump truck...... But I do like a rear bar, seems to make the car a bit easier to throttle steer.... I know, I should just grow up and quit over-driving everything I own!!!!!!! I just can't help it, the road racer wanna be in me just keeps coming out!!!!!

There are lots of things that can make '80s Mustangs handle better but when I had that a car, $$$ was a MAJOR problem and a sway bar along with a set of chassis stiffeners and an under hood shock tower bar was all the thin wallet would allow (plus it was a floppy bodied T top).

Grow up? Why? One of my fun things these days is coming up fairly close behind a ricer and kid driver with all those shiny grille bars on my '06 F350 FX4 reflecting off his rear window

And here we go again, hijacking Ken's build thread - sorry Ken. It wont happen until the next time

Yeah Ken, you know we'll never do it again!!!!!

I took the day off, my garage was a mess from working all week. My wife is a keeper
Ken