Great to see you at it again Jim , So the sons A is coming along also . You must be going in the Green Machine huh. Sounds like at least your going . I am following this 3 pedal and keeping ideas .
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Great to see you at it again Jim , So the sons A is coming along also . You must be going in the Green Machine huh. Sounds like at least your going . I am following this 3 pedal and keeping ideas .
Yeah, he's making some good progress now. The engine is going together and is almost ready to be installed in the car. I have attached a more recent pic of him with it. The wheels were borrowed from my coupe for the picture and he rested his arm on the roof so it is obvious how low the thing sits. He says he intends to drive it for a year or so and then chop it. Time will tell.:HMMM: :3dSMILE:
Unless Chip Foose and the "Overhaulin" crew show up to finish my roadster, I'll be driving my coupe (or my truck if I need to bring something large home). I might make the Spring run to Daytona with the roadster, but even that is probably pretty ambitious...:o
Don't you just hate it when life's obligations get in the way of building your car? The nerve of it all !!! :rolleyes: :D As I saw the school buses going past me the other day it occurred to me that you would now be back at the grind (but not the "car" kind of grind).
Still seems like you and the boy are making progress though. Doesn't look like he is too awful far off, :)
Don
Yeah, really! I just get going good on a project and that evil place where they keep my paychecks wants me to show up and entertain a bunch of teenagers every day! What gall!!:eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :LOL: :LOL:
Yes, he's shooting for the Turkey Run and has a good chance of making it... if he doesn't run out of money. He still has to install the engine & trans, fire it up and run in the cam, make a drive shaft, get glass installed in the windshield frame and do all the wiring. Of course there is that long punch-list of little things like throttle & shifter linkage, belts & hoses, bolt down the seats, etc...:HMMM: Is this what is called "crunch time"?:whacked:
I left off with the under-dash assembly not yet mounted in the car.Of course, I had trial-fit it several times while fabricating the various pieces, but now the next step was to get the thing solidly mounted inside the body. To do that, it needed "feet" that would bolt directly to the frame.:HMMM:
I fabricated the "feet" for the front hoop from 1/4" x 2" angle and the "feet for the rear hoop from 1/4" x 2" flat stock. After welding these pieces onto their respective locations, I reassembled the whole thing inside the body again so I could mark the locations on the floorpan. Next, I disassembled and removed it so I could cut the necessary holes in the floorpan. At this point, I also cut holes over the rear kick-up so I could make accommodations for the bolt-in roll bar (yet to be fabricated).
After marking the locations on the frame (through the holes) I removed the body from the frame, fabricated the "pads", welded them in place, and drilled & tapped them with 3/8 - 24 threads. I left the roll bar pads un-drilled for now.
With the body back in place, I bolted everything back together (again!**) ) to verify fit. Along the way, I made some blocks to fit under the rear "feet". When everything is finalized the last time, I am going to glue the rear hoop and blocks into the body permanently.:3dSMILE:
At this point I am taking a break from the cowl-mounted steering to do something a bit more visually rewarding. I'll get back to extending the pittman arm shaft shortly, but right now I'm tired of working upside-down under the cowl.**) :LOL: Since I have already welded the "pads" on the frame for the roll bar, I have elected to do it next.
I began by capping one end of the tubing, ramming it full of damp sand, and capping the other end. Past experience with the bender has shown me that it leaves dimples in the tubing at both ends of the bend. To eliminate that problem, I made a couple of small "shields" to spread the pressure of the rollers. I made these from a short piece of tubing split down the middle and spread open slightly (I painted them red to show up better in the pics). They are not attached to the tubing or the bender; they are held in place by pressure. The second picture shows them in position during one of the bends. The result is as expected - no dimples.:D
The third pic shows the final shape of the roll bar after some "trial and error" fitting. The last pic shows the finished roll bar hoop with brackets installed, holes drilled & tapped, and bolted in place. I used 7/16-20 x 1 1/4" grade-8 bolts. When I disassemble the car for finishing, I will box-gusset the brackets on the back side.:)
Glad to see you back on the job! :D You are like me, I have to jump onto something more fun sometimes and leave another chore for a bit.
Even with your little hiatus you are still moving along really well.
Don
Thanks, Don. Yeah, progress is slow, but steady. We are in a crunch to get my son's car running for the Turkey Run and time is growing short...:HMMM:
Anyway, as long as I'm having fun I thought I would move to another visually rewarding project and fabricate the front bumper. I began this operation by making a special bending fixture. I took some scraps of 3/4" plywood and cut them into half-circles. The middle peice has a diameter equal to the spread of the front frame tubes/spring mounts on the car. I cut this piece carefully and worked it on a belt sander to get a nice smooth contour. The outer pieces are 1 1/2" larger. Since they are just guides for the tubing, the outside radius isn't as critical and I just left them "as cut". After all three pieces were cut, I glued and screwed them together in a sort of sandwich. The finished piece looks like half of a big pulley. Finally, I bent and drilled a piece of 1/8" x 3/4" flat stock to make a loop to hold the tubing at one end.
To use this apparatus, I just clamp it in a vise, insert a piece of tubing into the slot under the loop and bend the tubing around the form. After bending about halfway, I slid the tubing further into the form, clamped on a pair of vise-grips to keep it from sliding back, and bent it some more. I made two half-circles. I discovered that the tubing springs back some, so the bends ended up with a shallower radius than intended. To fix this problem I resorted back to my trusty hydraulic bender and deepened the center of each piece slightly.;)
After some trial and error fitting, I trimmed the two bumper pieces to match each other and to fit the contour of the nose piece. I took a short piece of 3/4" tubing and dressed it down very slightly on a lathe to just fit inside the 1" tubing at the front of the frame horn/spring mounts (If I had not had a lathe available, I could have done this with a grinder). From this I made two "bracket tube" pieces about 4" long. I drilled a 9/32" hole in each of the frame horns and drilled and tapped a 1/4-20 hole in each of the small bracket tubes so that I could slide them in and bolt them in place with 1/2" protruding out.:rolleyes:
Next step was to notch and weld the bumper pieces together in the appropriate shape and then weld them onto the the bracket tubes. I may weld up something to insert into the center of the bumper later, but for now I just left it plain.:D
That bumper is perfect........it really "makes" the front end of the car. Reminds me of the old Curtis Kraft cars. :) :) Are you gonna put your initial in the center?
So you guys are hustling for Turkey Run too? We have about 10 days left in Sept, 31 in Oct, and about 20 in Nov. Wow, it is getting close. Hope you guys make it, just like I hope we do too.
Don
Thank you, Don.:D :D Yeah, the bumper and radius rods are styled after the early Kurtis midgets & sprint cars. I am eventually going to make side nerfs and a rear bumper for it, too. I think I need to put something in the bumper, but not sure yet if it will be my initial or something else...:HMMM:
The Turkey Run is sneaking up on us almost too quickly.:eek: I will drive my coupe unless I need my truck to haul something home, but my son is really wanting to have his sedan running. He has reached that point in his first build where a lot of first-timers get frustrated and quit. There is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, but it seems like an unending list of little details that keep getting in the way of putting everything together.:mad: We've all been there...:rolleyes:
I know that "valley" that we all get into all too well. I'm down to stupid stuff like brake and fuel lines, and I built the whole car faster than I am wrapping up these little details. Just pulling the starter and making up cables the other day was enough that I needed a nap after. My big project for yesterday and today is making up my exhaust baffles.
Keep after your Son, it sounds like he has a real good shot at making it. Don and I figure once Dan actually sees our two rods running it will kick him in the butt and he will quit reengineering his '29 and want to get it on the road. Right now it is in a million pieces getting a total revamp and it has never even seen the street. :confused: :confused:
Don
Well, the roll bar and bumper were a nice distraction from standing on my head under the cowl, but I must get this steering done sometime, so...:HMMM:
In order to get the Ford Ranger steering box to work as a cowl-mounted unit, it is necessary to extend the pittman arm shaft out through the side of the body. To accomplish this, I gathered a couple different sizes of tubing, two pittman arms (the original one that came with the Ranger box and another one of unknown origin), and some miscellaneous nuts, bolts, and washers.
The first step was to cut the Ranger pittman arm apart. I only need the splined portion. I ground the remains of the arm off to get this piece as round as possible so I could chuck it up in a lathe later. I also marked and drilled six equally-spaced holes in a pair of 1 1/4" washers.
I could have used a grinder to reduce the size of the splined collar, but it would be slow going. Luckily, I have access to a small lathe, so I quickly turned the splined piece down to a more easily useable size. The purpose here was to get the piece down to a smaller diameter that would fit between the six bolts on the big washers. I also turned the tips off the corners of the big nut that holds the pittman arm on the steering box so it would fit through the hole in the washers.:rolleyes:
Once I got what I needed, I welded the splined collar to one of the washers. I welded a short piece of 1 5/8" tubing to the other washer. These are welded on both sides and then the welds dressed just enough to make everything fit together. Now the splined piece fits on the steering box, the nut with the shaved corners will hold it in place, and the other piece bolts to it.
That's as far as I got. The pictures help to explain what I did and it is becoming apparent where I'm going with this.;) :3dSMILE:
Pretty cool way to mount the box and extend the arm.
Don
The next step in extending the sector shaft (pittman arm shaft) was to locate and cut the necessary hole in the cowl.:HMMM: Then I welded another piece of tubing (the next size smaller) into the adapter collar that I made in the last installment. It is positioned so it will not interfere with the retainer nut on the steering box. This piece was deliberately too long so that I could mark and trim it to length after trial fitting. After that, I cut and welded yet another piece (again the next size smaller) into the end. This last piece only stuck out enough to fit flush with the outside of the pittman arm.:rolleyes:
I put the extension in place, indexed the steering box to dead center of travel, and hung the pittman arm on it. With the box centered and the pittman arm hanging straight down, I marked them so I could weld them together in the correct position later. Next, I welded a 3/4" bolt (with the head cut off) into the end of the adapter, leaving it out far enough to put a self-locking nut on the outside. Finally, I welded the pittman arm to the extension; I welded both sides completely making sure that I got good penetration all around. I let this piece air-cool completely. When it was cool enough to handle, I bolted it in place and put the nut on the outside. The nut really serves no purpose except to hide the weld and make the whole thing look complete.:D
Now, to mount the column...:HMMM: :confused: I am using the steering column out of a 1968 Olds 442. I chose this one because it does not have the key in the column and it doesn't have a column shifter mechanism. I could have used any 1968 or earlier steering column. I have already deviated from my early-50's theme with the front suspension; I didn't want the column to be a dead giveaway that this is a modern-built car.;)
The first step was to cut it off to a useable length. I began by chopping right through the housing and shaft with my chop saw. I held it up to the car and decided it was still too long, so I cut about another 6 inches off. At this point, I disassembled the remaining column down to the bare shaft.:whacked:
From the big piece I cut off, I took the tubular shaft section that transitions from round to double-D and cut it off about 8 inches long. The double-D part, of course, slides right onto the piece of upper shaft that I am using. The other (round) end slides right onto the input shaft of the Ford Ranger steering box. The Ranger shaft already has a flat on one side, so I ground a matching flat on the opposite side, tapered them both slightly, and now the tube slides on until the flats are up inside the "transition" portion of the tube. Now I could slip the pieces together and sit in the car with the wheel in place to check the fit. I ended up cutting about another 2 inches off the upper shaft section.:o
Finally, I marked and welded the tubular piece to the upper shaft piece. With some trial and error fitting, I marked and cut the column housing about an inch shorter than the completed shaft and then reassembled everything. The column and wheel assembly now slips right onto the Ranger input shaft with the flats trapped in the transitional part of the inside tube.:3dSMILE:
In my next installment, I will make the pieces that keep everything solidly together.:D
You've got the steering really figured out pretty well. I like the way it exits the cowl. If I were doing that I would have had 3 or 4 large holes cut because I can never seem to hit the exact spot where steering columns and other stuff needs to be, so I end up patching a lot of holes.
Good job and really making headway. :)
Don
See it's ahead there Jim. Steering came out good . Issue with me never cut one and am a bit shaky on the thought . Are all GM columns basicly the same i have a 82 silverado pick up column.
Great thinking and design, I do believe you have helped alot of people with this thread and on thier behalf I thank you.
Thanks guys. I hope some have benefitted from this thread; I'm enjoying doing it.:D
Bobby, as far as I know the GM columns are all somewhat similar inside. Since the mid-'60's they have all been collapsible and used similar components. On my coupe I only needed to shorten the column ('95 GMC Sonoma) a couple of inches, so I took advantage of the collapsible feature. I stood it on its steering wheel and used a wood block and a big hammer to shorten (collapse) it.:eek: I did the outer housing first and then the shaft. Works like a charm...:rolleyes:
Thanks Jim give's me better in thought to what i will look for . Be great to see a tech article on various types:D
Everything fits together nicely; now I need to make it stay there. This turned out to be one of the easier ones I've done...:)
First, and most importantly, the steering shaft has to be locked to the input shaft on the steering box. At first I thought I would simply drill a 3/16" hole through both pieces and pin them together with a grade-8 10-32 socket-head bolt. Then I discovered that the input shaft on the Ford Ranger box is hardened and can't be drilled,:eek: so...
I drilled a 17/64" hole in one side of the hollow end of the steering shaft. Then, using a shank-bolt (no threads on the end), I centered a 5/16-24 nut over the hole, tack welded it, removed the bolt, and welded the nut solidly in place. After it air-cooled, I ran a 5/16-24 tap through to clean up the threads in the nut and cut threads through the hole in the shaft. I installed a 5/16-24 socket-head set screw.;)
Next, I put the column / wheel back on the box and tightened the set screw to make a mark on the input shaft. Then I removed the column / wheel and ground a small notch in the shaft at the mark. This allows the set screw to seat in the notch so that it locks the column onto the input shaft. When I assemble the car for the final time, I will use lock-tite on the set screw.
The second part of this operation is to put a bracket on the column housing so it can be attached to the body. The bracket doesn't have much stress on it since it's not supporting any weight. All it does is keep the housing from rotating around the shaft. I welded a small angle bracket (from ACE Hardware) to the column housing so that it would be positioned behind the dash. I situated it on the housing so the turn signal lever is about 10 or 15 degrees above horizontal. The reason I did that is to make getting in and out of the car easier for the driver (more clearance to get my leg between the lever and the body). A small bolt through the dash just above the column locks the housing in place. When I finish the car, I can either hide the bolt behind the dash cover or replace it with something decorative like a chrome acorn, etc.:D
Well.., I whipped up a drag link and connected the pittman arm to the front spindle. Now the car is steerable.., but the steering box moves!:eek::eek: It seems that the bracket I made isn't rigid enough.:mad: I fab'd it out of 1/4" plate; I should have used 3/8". When I move the steering wheel, the steering box mount flexes.:CRY: I can fix it OK, but this is a minor setback...
Oh well! Right, wrong, or indifferent, I will show you the construction process, warts and all.:o
Meantime, I am toying with the idea of using a Duvall style windshield. Since I have the body with the extended cowl, I can make one to fit using Brian Ruppnow's instructions. Here are some pics of a cardboard mockup; tell me what you think.:rolleyes:
I Like The Windshield There J Looks Good And I,ve Been Following Your Progress All The Way,and Actually Picked Up Some Pointers,just Wanted To Say Thank U For Sharing Ur Knowledge And The Way U Present It.
The steering box issue is just one of those things that crop up, you'll fix it. We all find things like that, you just have to address them and move on.
D***, that T looks ready to drive almost !!!:D :D It's one thing to have a roller, but you have lots of the mechanicals done already as well as the body. I really like it. To me the windshield looks good, but maybe just a tad too tall. I know that you would rather look through it than over it, but maybe just a little off the top wouldn't create any problems. Just my opinion.
Seems like your Sons sedan is pretty far along too from the pictures. Hope to meet you both in Daytona.
Don
Thanks, guys. I've still got to play with the shape of it a little. Another consideration is if I ever want to run a top on it for those long trips in the Florida "liquid sunshine"...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
My son's sedan is in the garage now (my coupe is in his garage), we have the engine & trans in it, and have had it running for a few minutes.:D He is still shooting for the Turkey Run, but he has an awful lot to do to get it streetable. We'll be there, though, with or without his sedan.:)
Hey J. Robinson----Looking good. I too am following your build. I am always happy when someone can use some of the "how To" articles I have posted. The only two things I can tel you about the Duvall style windshield is #1--Forget about ever running a soft top with that style of windshield---they hog too much of the door opening, and #2--make certain that the frame is solidly bolted to the cowl before making your final glass templates!!! I Know!!! I made templates and cut glass before I had mine bolted to the cowl---Then turned around and had to do it again after it was bolted down:CRY: :CRY:
----Brian
Thanks for the tip, Brian. The more I look at the mock-up, the more I think I'm going to do it. I may be asking for more advice when the time comes...:o
Before proceeding too far with anything else, I needed to fix the steering mount flex problem.:HMMM: The best way to access the problem area was without the body, so I disassembled all the under-dash steering mount stuff and removed the roll bar. I took the body off and then reassembled all the steering stuff.;)
As it turns out, the problem was worse than I thought. When I moved the steering wheel, not only did the 1/4" mounting plate flex, everything moved!:eek: While the plate was flexing up and down and twisting, the dash support tube flexed side-to-side and the whole big assembly moved fore and aft! Sheesh, what a mess!:whacked:
OK, first step was to get rid of any flex in the mounting plate. I cut a wedge from a scrap of 2" square tubing and box-gusseted the plate. That made an enormous difference as soon as I welded it in place.
The whole structure was still moving fore and aft and side-to-side slightly, so I cut two pieces of 3/4" tubing and put triangular braces from the front (main) hoop to the steering box mount. (I shot the pieces I added with some light spray paint so they would show up in the picture.) The whole assembly is nice and stiff now.:) All of this stuff is under the dash and above the pedals, so none of it shows when assembled inside the body.
I am also going to add some diagonal struts from the front hoop to the frame in front of the firewall. They will be made to bolt in.:D
I guess the weight of the steering components are forcing all the reinforcing, looks like you have cured the problem. From following the thread, I know you have built many of those chassies, is there a set plan you go by? If there is a set of plans, I would love to have a copy. I am wanting to build one myself.
It wasn't just the weight, but also mostly the stress of the steering action pushing and pulling the pittman arm / spindle arm. I definitely underestimated the stress on the steering assembly.:(
No, I don't have any plans. If I did, you would be welcome to them. Except for a handful of T-bucket frames, most of the 20 or so frames I have built or helped build over the years have been one-of-a-kind, plan-as-I-go ventures. I have some sketches that I have made on graph paper to calculate some angles, etc. but no complete plans. I generally do a full-size layout on the garage floor using 2" masking tape and an assortment of measuring tools. If you look in my gallery of build pics on my coupe, there are a couple of pictures of the layout on the floor and some frame pieces cut to fit it.;)
The most complex frame I ever built was for a '48 Anglia. It had an independent front end out of an MG Midget and a narrowed 12-bolt Chevy rear on crossed torsion bars. After that would probably be the frame I built for a '37 Chevy coupe. Probably the prettiest frame I ever built is the Deuce-style frame under my coupe. The jury is still out on my roadster frame; it is the only one I have ever done completely from round tubing. It may be the most interesting (from a builder's standpoint).:whacked: :HMMM: :D
If I can be of assistance to you on your build, please let me know. What type of frame are you planning? What kind of car?
Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away... No, wait a minute; wrong story...:HMMM: :LOL:
Once upon a time a few years ago, I was helping my (then) boss put a Maverick rear end under his '40 Ford coupe with 350/350 combo. We had everything done except the drive shaft. I grabbed one out of the stash of old drive shafts propped in the corner and shoved the splined yoke into the transmission. I lifted the rear of it up to see how much it would need to be shortened and, holy U-joints Batman, it fit perfectly!:eek: :D That was the only time in my life that has ever happened. Every other hotrod and race car I have ever built had to have a custom length drive shaft.
I thought, since I have the body off, this would be a good time to make a drive shaft for the roadster. Unfortunately, my camera malfunctioned and deleted all the pictures.:mad: I took another pic of the finished product, but I lost all the "how-to" pics.:CRY: The good news is, I have to repeat the process tomorrow evening on my son's sedan, so I will reshoot the process and post the pics here.:o
J.
Did you weld your own driveshaft? If so will you be showing us how to do that with your son's sedan?
Thanks for all of the info. its great that there is so much info, and different ideas to do these cars.
Thanks,
Z
I like the way you licked the steering problem. I also like that you demonstrated that we all run into little problems when building a car.......h***, even the big car makers screw things up, so why should we not do the same every once in a while. The key is to do just like you did, figure out what is going on, and how to correct it.
I really like this build you are doing. Fun to see it coming together as it is.
Don
Z- Yes, I cut and weld my own drive shafts.:cool: I've lost count of how many I've done over the years, but I would guess 20+. I've only had one that vibrated; it was in an Olds Cutlass stock car. At about 7,000 rpm it rattled my teeth:whacked: ; the following week I made another one and solved the problem... Yes, I will be showing step-by-step how I do it. I photographed the process yesterday on my roadster, but when I went to download the pics to my computer the memory card was empty!:( I will photo the process again on my son's sedan.
Don- Thanks. I've been enjoying doing this thread on my build. Your roadster thread was the original inspiration for doing it.:D
I was so disgusted Saturday that I was very close to cutting all the steering junk out and replacing it with a cross-steer system!:mad: Cowl mounted steering was common in the track roadsters of the early '50's, though, so I finally decided to persevere and fix it.:o
Glad you toughed it out, it's been very informative.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Robinson
Man i love it when people build there own s--t, thats awesome man, the pieces i like the most are the, well i don;t know what they are called but they are on the front suspension with the heim joints? bent and coped tubing, they look beautiful, you have the same harbor freight tools i have , cheap but work awesome and did i mention cheap again?
Those are called "radius rods". The style I used on the roadster are commonly called "hairpins" because they are shaped somewhat like a lady's hairpin. They were popularized by Frank Kurtis in the 1940's when he made and used them on his Kurtis Kraft midgets and Indy cars.:)
My coupe has a different style of radius rods that are probably more common on hotrods. They use a straight top bar and the bottom one curves up to intersect it near the rear pivot point. They are visible in the coupe pic below. There are other styles, too. Different builders have their own opinions about what looks good.:HMMM:
Yeah, Harbor Freight tools may not stand up to daily production use, but for the home builder they're great... and cheap, too. Oh yeah, you said that.;)
Got the tank on the coupe filled for your trip to Daytona yet???? :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:
Don
Well, not yet...:o Actually, I filled the tank on my Honda Shadow Aero instead!:eek:
The wife and I are going up for Biketoberfest this afternoon and staying until Sunday. The coupe will be ready when the time comes, though...:rolleyes: :D