Windage and elevation??**)Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
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Windage and elevation??**)Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
The final part of the radiator mount is the top clamp. I made it out of a piece of 1/4" x 2" flat stock, a piece of 3/16" x 2" flat stock, the third ring I cut earlier, and a 3/8-16 x 3/4" bolt & nut.
After installing the grommets on the top stud of the radiator and welding the ring to one end of the 3/16" bracket, I held both pieces (the bracket and the tab) in place to determine where to drill the bolt hole and how much the top bracket needed to be bent. After bending and drilling, I bolted the two pieces together and tack-welded the nut to the underside of the 1/4" tab. When it was cooled enough to handle, I took the two pieces apart, put a washer/spacer between them and reassembled them.;)
Lastly, I held the assembled clamp in place on the radiator and tacked the tab to the hoop. I unbolted the top piece, removed the radiator again, and welded the tab solidly to the hoop. Finally, after it cooled, I re-installed the radiator and reassembled the top bracket without the washer/spacer between it and the tab. That compressed the rubber grommets just enough to keep everything nice and snug.:D
Windage and elevation!:LOL: :LOL: Good one... Yeah, Don, I learned a lot from Lorraina Bobitt.., like, uhh, shut up and do as you're told!:eek: :LOL: :LOL:
When I first looked, I thought that was a custom made aluminum radiator, but that is smart using the Civic one. What is the deal, I see you say it is a racing model? How did you come across that one? It fits perfectly in there, and sure looks thick enough.
Don
I found that nifty little radiator on Ebay. I was looking for something that would fit in the sprint car nose and the dimensions for that one were posted on the Ebay ad. It looked like a good deal ($131 with shipping) so I bought it. It is a direct bolt-in for a Honda Civic, but it's twice as thick as a stock Civic and it's all welded aluminum instead of plastic tanks.:3dSMILE: I believe this thing would probably cool a small block Chevy or Ford if it wasn't too radical. I used an Opel Kadett radiator to cool a mild 327 Chev years ago; worked fine.:rolleyes:
Yup, that radiator looks like one of the high dollar custom made ones. Good score.
I saw this track T on Ebay, and it had some similarities to your build. He used a 2.3 engine, 4 speed, and rear from a Ranger. Said it gets 30 mpg. That is very attractive on it's own. :) The only thing I didn't like about his was that he also used the ranger IFS suspension setup. Looked too bulky.
Thought you might enjoy seeing some pictures because of being somewhat the same as yours.
Don
Jim,
Its 3.30am, I woke up and thought "I gotta check out that thread on the Track-T build-up". Dunno why. So I've just spent the last hour reading this series, and I gotta say I'm very impressed with your work.
You put me to shame, as its taken me 10 years to get to where I am, and I'm still not finished the coupe.
BTW, can you shoot me a pic of your coupe's chassis, as I had a 'puter crash, and lost what you previously sent me. TIA
Mark
Hi Mark.
I sent pics to both of the e-mail addresses I have for you. Let me know if they don't come through.
Jim
Don,
That eBay track roadster just SCREAMS for an I-beam front axle.
Yep, that was the one thing I didn't care for on it. Looks too offroadish.
Don
I agree, the frontend on that car needs work. One thing that might help right off would be to put some smaller tires on the front. Those big fat things look out of proportion.:HMMM:
The twin-I-beam frontend that Ford put on their trucks for years was probably one of the worst engineering fallacies that was ever perpetrated on the American truck-buying public. It was strong and rugged, but, no matter wat you did, it was always out of alignment as soon as you changed the load.:rolleyes: Now someone is selling split I-beams for hotrods (I can't remember if it is Posies or Fatman) and that's even worse! The slightest change in ride height, spring rate, or load ( different weight passengers?) causes a change in camber and it may be different from one side to the other!:eek:
That little roadster (above) has some potential to be a nice car. The first thing I would do is torch out all that twin-I-beam junk and put a different front axle under it (I'd also lower it an inch or two while I was at it).;) Anybody know what the selling price was?
The split axle you're describing is done by Fatman, he originally made it for a tube axle rather than beam, the pivot bungs weld into the tube. Here's an article where he adapted it to a beam axle. http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=283&SID=16 He calls it Vintage IFS.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Robinson
Flaming river has also brought out a setup that is more like the Ford design, they call it the Dominator (?); http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cf...349/prd349.htm
As for that roadster, I don't think it sold at auction as it was on Craigslist a week or so ago. If I remember correctly he was asking $7500.
This is how it ended up. Didn't make reserve.
US $7,100.00
Reserve not met
Buy It Now price: US $9,999.00
Don
With the radiator mount done, the next step was to make the brackets for the nose. I started, of course, buy mocking the nose up in place. I cut four pieces of bed rail angle iron 1" wide. Then I held them in place inside the nose, against the support hoop, and marked where to cut the short side off to fit (see pic). After I cut and drilled them, I welded a 1/4-20 nut over each hole on what would be the inside.
Next, I tack-welded them in place, removed the nose and welded them solid. After the welds cooled, I put the nose back in place and marked the inside for the mounting holes. Finally, I drilled the holes and mounted the nose with 1/4-20 button head bolts.:)
I could have glassed in some mounting tabs inside the nose and made hidden brackets, but I am attempting to keep this thing closer to how it might have been done in the early 50's. If you look at pics of old midgets & sprint cars, you will often see bolts, screws, or Dzus fasteners holding the nose in place.
Here it is with the nose mounted. I couldn't resist rolling it out for a couple of "full view" pictures.:D
A lot of other people must agree with us if the maximum bid on that roadster only reached $7100.:rolleyes: I would bet that with different wheels and tires to change the stance it might bring at least its reserve price. That thing seriously needs some "bigs & littles" and they need to be blackwalls. I have nothing against wide whites, but those are just plain ugly on that car.:HMMM: :p
Car looks great in the Florida sunshine ! :) Profile is right on. Are you gonna make a full hood, or partial, or none, and what are you going to make it out of?
Don
Jim looks like a new project over there with four doors. Wondering now on what plan you have for it also.
Don - I am intending to run a full hood on it. According to my books by Don Radbruch, almost all of the old track roadsters ran with at least a hood top. I suppose it must have been required by the rules. Many of the nicer cars had fully enclosed engine bays. I will probably make it from aluminum or steel.:)
Bobby - The 4-door in the background is my son's project. It is a '31 Model-A Murray body Town Sedan with slant windshield. He has been working on it for a couple of years now. Most of that time was spent in salvaging the body which was unbelievably rotten. The local "restorers" all shied away from it because they considered it too far gone to save.:HMMM: My son bought the body for $260 and went from there. Here's a picture before we blew it apart for finishing and painting.:cool:
Body sures look clean now . Jim the track is looking good also . Getting really close to plumbing at the rate your going .
When he got that sedan the sub-rails were completely gone on both sides, the lower cowl sections were rusted away, the lower 10 inches or so of the rear body panel was rusted away, and the rain gutters were completely gone. Worst of all, the inner door jamb structure around the driver's door was rusted out.:( I had to tack-weld the doors shut to get everything squared up.:eek: Then we climbed inside and X'd the body in a few places with conduit so that we could lift the body off the frame without destroying what was left of it. After trimming out some remaining rust scraps, we fabricated new sub-rails from 1" x 2" rectangular tubing and then started fabricating patch panels. After we did all the patchwork welding and filled the roof (with the roof panel from a 1986 Toyota van), we removed the conduit bracing from inside and cut the doors loose. We welded 5/16" round stock where the gutters were and he molded it in while he was doing all the bodywork. It's a pretty nice, solid body now...:D
The Track-T still has a long way to go, but I'm pleased with the progress so far. I would probably be moving a little quicker on it, but I am trying to accomplish a few things on the wife's honey-do list while helping my son and a friend on their cars, too.:whacked: :LOL: :LOL: Also, (Don will understand this) some days I go out to the garage, poke around for a few minutes, and decide that the heat is more than I want to tolerate, so I just go back in the house...:o :rolleyes:
I've seen a few guys post that the heat has driven them out of the garage, and I khow it sure makes me go to the shop later and later every day. And even at 8 pm it is still 90 in the shop. :eek:
JR, you are really making great progress on the T. Every time you post you show us so much more getting done. I really envy you for that.
I didn't know your Son had that fordor. Cool little rod ! :) Nice to see he saved one nobody else wanted.
Don
You guys don't have A/C in the shop???? Man, I have A/C even up here in South Dakota. With the weather lately, probably the most important piece of equipment in the shop!!!! Even have a couple of the neighborhood stray dogs coming over in the afternoon to find a cool place to catch their afternoon nap!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
I can understand that train of thought. I am working on mine outside (read no garage:LOL: :LOL: ). I am glad I tried out my chain saw yesterday while it was only in the eighties. Got all the trash brush and volunteer trees cut down.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Robinson
Starting today it's supposed to be in the mid to high nineties all next week.:eek: I don't even want to no what the humidity will make the heat index.
I really like both your track T project and your sons fordoor is nice. It great to see a body style not often used for a rod.
Well, I have reached the point in this project where I must mount the steering box and linkage. The problem is, I want cowl-mounted steering as was common in the old track roadsters and I also have to contend with the pedals. Remember, I'm running a stick in this car and I have to make room for 3 pedals... So, I kind of have to contend with all of it at once.:HMMM:
I began by cutting a piece of 1 5/8" tubing about 6 feet long. I welded a piece of scrap steel over the cut end and then filled the tube with wet sand. I tamped and packed the sand as tight as I could get it and then capped the open end with a pipe cap. I measured to find the center and then put a mark 11 inches out each way to indicate the approximate center of the bends (determined by measuring the bending dies).:rolleyes:
I moved the rollers of my bender out to the second hole, centered one of the tubing marks on the bending die and began pumping. At about 45 degrees of bend, the jack was starting to get pretty reluctant, so I relieved the pressure, moved the rollers out to the next hole, and completed the bend.
All went well, so I moved on to the next bend. I figured that it would be more prudent, time-wise, if I just left the rollers in the 3rd hole to start with and I should be able to make the bend in one shot... WRONG! At about 60 degrees of bend, the tubing kinked!:CRY: (See 3rd pic)
OK, lesson learned.:o I took another short piece of tubing, welded a piece of scrap over one end, filled it with wet sand, etc,etc... With two nice bends in hand (after dumping out the sand and cutting the welded end off), all I had to do was make them into one piece of the appropriate size. Some trial & error and a little measuring to get the right width, and I was ready to put the two halves together... Splicing tubing together is no big deal; all you need is a sleeve for the inside of the splice. Leave a little gap between the main pieces so the weld penetrates all 3 pieces and weld it home. Properly done, the splice will be the strongest part of the tube.;)
With the tube made to fit under the cowl, the next step is to hang the pedals. Yes, I am using swing pedals instead of bringing them up through the floor.:p I have a few reasons for doing it this way. First, beleive it or not, swing pedals were common in track roadsters! Track roadsters were the forerunners of modern-day sprint cars and many of them were built with cowl-mounted steering and pedals. It kept everything up out of the way of the rather cramped driveline space and also made service / repairs at the track easier. Secondly, I am using the Chevy S-10 hydraulic clutch mechanism and the master cylinder has to be mounted above the slave which is easier to accomplish with swing pedals. Finally, in keeping with traditional hotrod building practices, I am using some commonly available salvage yard parts that I have on hand (that's how we did it in the old days, right?).;)
Beginning with the complete pedal assembly from the S-10, I determined I needed to remove 2 1/2" from the front of the bracket. After sectioning that bit out, it was "cut and try" until I got something that fit where and how I wanted it. By the time I was done, I had tacked the pedal assembly to the tube, cut it loose, and rewelded it twice.:whacked: Finally satisfied with the fit, I welded the pedal assembly solidly to the tubing and then trimmed off all the excess bracketry that is no longer necessary.
The last step was to prop the whole thing in the car, climb in, and determine what changes would be needed to make the pedals workable.:rolleyes: In order to get the gas pedal in there, both pedals needed to shift to the left. Also, they needed to come up a little further from the floor. All I did was a little heating and bending with a torch; problem solved. The bottom dogleg in the clutch pedal was already there; I added the upper bends. I bent the brake pedal a bit more than the clutch pedal to get it a little closer to the clutch than it was originally. The pedals are a bit tight in there, but similar to an early VW Beetle...:)
In a "worst case scenario", I might have to borrow Don's ballet slippers to drive it.:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Cool way to do the hanging pedals. You are right about them being able to fit in a tight space. I had an Austin Healy Sprite years ago, and the three pedals fit into a very tight area. I like the ones you are using.
Don't get Bob started on that ballerina thing. I swear the man has the strangest collection of pictures I've ever seen. He must have been a side show barker at the circus at one time. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Don
Jim, good call on using wet sand in the pipes, my brother gave me his bender because he kept kinking pipes. I will be nice and let him borrow it back and maybe I will even let him borrow some sand.:D
Your progress your making is incredible, and your ideas are inspiring.
Ron
Jim i'm a favorite to swinging pedals and glad to see you in operation . I like this idea and pics may help me get mine in there just right. Fred Flintstone and twinkle toes comes to mind for shifting and bowling .
SLACKER!!!
Just kidding, I got tired of going back so far to find the thread. :D
Ron
Yep, I've been waiting for updates too. :) I bet JR is getting ready for "back to school."
I just noticed something funny. JR and I both joined the tubing for our underdash roll bars in exactly the same way.
Don
Don,
That's the same way I joined two halves of a straight tube axle that I narrowed for a Super Comp altered. I didn't do a rosette weld, though. I beveled both halves of the axle, left a little gap, welded it up and ground it smooth. You couldn't tell it was narrowed.
Great minds, eh?
Yep, I'm a slacker!:eek: I admit it.:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Yes, great minds think alike...:o
Actually, what little time I've spent in the garage recently has been mostly to help my son with his sedan.:HMMM: (Plus, I had to go back to work [YUK! BARF!]:mad: :CRY: ) We rebuilt all the brakes, ran the brake lines, and finally put the body back on his chassis. In between helping him, I have been tinkering with the steering box mount, but I'm not far enough along with it to write it up. Soon, very soon, I promise!:D
I wish I noticed this thread earlier. I will have to keep up with this one now and follow along with it like I do Don's. Great work and I love Track T's!
Hey, better late than never, FMX. Glad you found my thread. I've always been partial to track-T's.:D
Another long-time dream of mine has been to build a replica of an old Indy car (either a Kurtis or Watson roadster) and make it street legal.:HMMM: So far, though, I've never been able to get my hands on a set of blueprints...:confused:
Over the winter months I used to go out and assist the local builders by doing the welding of the galvanised pipe in new cowsheds. That was the way I, and everybody else I knew did it. I suppose when you're doing it all the time you forget that not everybody knows that trick. But it is easy, and ensures that the pipe is always aligned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Many of us who have been playing with hotrods and race cars for years already know this trick, but it may be helpful to someone reading this...
Frequently, when building a car, we use steering components from newer model vehicles. In doing so, we encounter pittman arms that are positioned incorrectly. OK, so take it off and reposition it, right?:confused:
Not so fast! If you look at the splines you will find that there are some irregular teeth that only allow the pittman arm to be installed on the shaft in one of four positions. What if none of those positions is compatible to your application? You need to find a custom made pittman arm, right? Nah, just a few minutes with a hacksaw and a file and you can put the pittman arm back on the shaft in any position you like.:3dSMILE:
Over the years, I have performed this trick on GM, Ford, and Toyota steering boxes. The shaft and hole diameters are different, but the process is the same. First, clamp the pittman arm in a vise. Next, remove the blade from the hacksaw frame, put it through the hole in the pittman arm, and reinstall it in the hacksaw frame. Now, simply cut the wide teeth in two, working the saw just slightly deeper than the neighboring teeth. After cutting all four of the wide teeth, remove the hacksaw and round off the "new" teeth slightly with a small rattail or half-round file. (I highlighted the "new" teeth with a red Sharpie so they are visible in the last picture.) The pittman arm will now go back on the shaft in any position.:3dSMILE:
I had to do the same thing on mine, used a stock Corvair arm. Then my Son ordered a Speedway one for his T bucket, and it has teeth all the way around, so it can index anywhere. Oh well, I needed practice with a hacksaw anyway. :LOL:
Good tip though.
Don
OK. It's been a while since I posted anything new on my roadster build. Aside from going back to work two weeks early for a (mostly useless) training seminar, I have been helping my son thrash on his project. Like Don and his boys, we are trying to get my son's sedan ready for Daytona. Also, while doing all these other things, I have been mentally working out how to work myself out of the proverbial "corner I painted myself into"...:HMMM:
I decided early on that I wanted to put cowl-mounted steering in this car because that was common on the track roadsters of the 40's and early 50's. If this was a steel body I could just weld in some appropriate bracketry and bracing, bolt in a compatible (and expensive) race car type steering box and be done with it. I am using a fiberglass body, however, and I am also using a $40 Ford Ranger steering box I picked up at the local salvage yard. The problems here are (1) the steering box needs to be adequately supported, not by the fiberglass body, but by some sort of structure that bolts directly to the frame and (2) the output shaft on the steering box will need to be extended so that it passes outside the body.:confused:
In this installment I finally tackled the steering box mounting problem. In previous posts I already formed the tube (front hoop) that fits immediately behind the firewall and mounted the pedals to it.
I began making the steering box mount by cutting and shaping a piece of 1/4 inch steel plate. After drilling the necessary holes to match the steering box, I welded a 7/16 jam nut to the underside of each hole and then drilled out the threads. These form the needed spacers so that the box will bolt up. (The steering box is not flat on the mounting side and must be spaced away from the mounting plate.);)
With the pedal assembly propped in place in the car, I started mocking up the steering box. Using a combination of blocks, wood shims, clamps, etc, I kept trial fitting and measuring until I arrived at what I believe is the correct angle and location. Then I transferred the whole shebang out on the floor and mocked it up again using the same measurements and angles. After heating and bending the mount plate three different times, I finally arrived at a useable angle (almost 90 degrees) and welded it to the front hoop with two pieces of 1/4 x 2 flat stock. Notice that I positioned the flat stock so that the bolts holding the pedals are accessible.:whacked:
With the front hoop /pedals /steering box assembly propped in position in the body, it was an extended episode of "trial and error" to get the secondary hoop bent to fit correctly.**) I started by welding a scrap of steel to one end of some 1" tubing, ramming it full of damp sand, welding another scrap over the other end, and putting a pair of 90 degree bends in it. I spaced the bends so that the top of this piece is wide enough to just fit under the top of the dasboard /cowl area.
Next, I cut the ends off, knocked the sand out, and then trimmed the "legs" off to the appropriate length. I positioned this piece so it is tilted forward slightly; it follows the slight slope of the dash panel in the body. I also had to put a slight bend at the midpoint of the "legs" so they conform better to the contour of the body sides. I wrestled this piece in and out of the body, tweaking and trimming, at least a dozen times until I was finally satisfied with the fit.:whacked:
Finally, I made a bolt-together bracket to attach this secondary hoop to the steering box mount. If I just welded everything together permanently outside the car, it wouldn't fit under the cowl. Also, if I could somehow successfully weld it together in position in the body, I wouldn't be able to remove it for future service /repair /modification. I fabricated the bracket from two pieces of 1 1/2 x 1/4 angle, 3 inches long. One piece had about 3/4" trimmed off one side so it could fit to the steering box mount plate without hitting the box. Both pieces were drilled and I used two grade five 7/16 14 x 1" bolts and nuts with the nuts tack-welded to the upper piece (because they are not accessible with a wrench inside the body). The last picture helps to clarify my description of this bracket (I hope).:HMMM: :LOL:
Later, after I have fab'd the bottom flanges and bolted everything down, I will glass the secondary hoop to the inside of the body. The front hoop /pedal /steering box assembly will still be removable.