-
4 Attachment(s)
The rear radius rods are in place, but the rear end brackets need to be strap-gusseted to the housing. This is done for two reasons...
First, and most importantly, the strap gussets make it nearly impossible for the brackets to break off. I have seen that happen; it usually occurrs under hard acceleration. The results are a destroyed rear end housing, a bent or broken drive shaft, and a severely damaged floor. Potentially, it could kill you either by causing a sudden loss of control or by beating you with a flailing, broken drive shaft.:eek:
Secondly, the straps require welding all the way around the housing which, if done correctly, equalizes the heat draw around the housing and minimizes warpage.:HMMM:
I began by cutting two pieces of 1/8 x 2 flat stock 9" long. I bent them almost in a right angle, 2 1/2" from one end. Then I used a vise and hammer to shape the long end in a sort of semi-circle so they looked somewhat like a question mark (see pic).
Next, I clamped and tack-welded the bottom (straight) ends to the back sides of the rear end brackets. I then used a combination of C-clamps, hammer, and tack-welds to persuade the curved portions into place around the housing and onto the top of the rear end brackets. I will weld the brackets and strap-gussets all the way around later when I have the rear end out of the car and can rotate it easily. For now, there are enough tack-welds to keep everything where it belongs while I hang the springs and panhard bar.;)
-
1 Attachment(s)
I love this picture. Car has a nice stance and proportions. You've really come a long way in a short amount of time.
Don
-
I'm not here, I am actually back on page 4 but I just had to post a big thank you. You make it look easy. Thanks for going into so much detail.
I have the skill and fabrication tools to do my own fabrication, but having never built a frame, suspension components, etc. before, and with so many options when fabricating it is very valuable to see just how far I have to go (or not go in some cases). I know me, I can make things much harder than they need to be.:eek:
Back to page 4, I'll catch up in a day or two.:D
Thanks
-
Man oh man, I just went through all 9 pages and I must say I'm impressed. You, Brian and Don do some real nice seat-of-the-pants fabricating.
-
I'm seeing new design kits for marketing . Some very solid work from all the builders .
-
5 Attachment(s)
Greetings boys & girls. I'm back,.. finally. We had the usual end-of-the-year chaos at school:whacked: and then the wife and I took off for a 4-day mini-vacation. Before ya know it, three weeks have passed since my last installment.:eek: I have some more travelling to do and a big list of "honey do's" to complete while school is out, so bear with me, my installments may be somewhat sporadic for a while. OK, enough excuses! On with the roadster construction.
The next phase of making this thing a true rolling chassis is to install the rear springs. I debated for a while about what to use. I have another pair of the coils I used up front, but they are way too stiff for the rear. I considered torsion bars (I love torsion bars and have used them in the front of my last three hotrods), but couldn't find any soft enough for use in the rear end. Finally, I was reading the Brian Rupnow thread on chassis construction (If you haven't read it yet, do so. It's excellent!) and he said he really wasn't knowledgeable enough of quarter-elliptic springs to explain how they are installed. That's it! I've done a few of these and my roadster is a perfect candidate, so...:rolleyes:
The first picture is of the parts I bought at the local ACE Hardware. These are semi-elliptic boat trailer springs, spring retainer plates, shackles, and some 9/16" bolts 3" long with self-locking nuts. The whole pile of parts was about $60.
The second pic shows one of the retainer plates sitting in position on one of the springs so it can be marked. The other spring in the pic has already been marked where it will be cut.
The third pic compares the original semi-elliptic spring with the one that's already been "modified" into a quarter-elliptic on the chop saw. Notice the end I kept intact is the end with the strap around it.
In picture four I have made sure the frame is level and centered between the rear wheels. Then I mocked the springs in place on wood blocks. The retainer plate will become the spring perch. I positioned the spring so the plate is against the frame rail and the eye of the spring is just forward of the axle housing.
In picture five I have fabricated some gussets from 1/4" plate steel. When I was satisfied with the fit of everything, I tacked it in place and then used a measuring tape and protractor to match the perch on the opposite frame rail.
-
Boy am I glad to see you back at it...........I was going into withdrawl. :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:
!/4 ellipitic are perfect for this application, and I'm surprised more people don't use them. (I'm sure more will after you show them how). They are simple, effective, and act as their own lower control arm. Smart idea JR.
Let's see, I have a few of these trailer springs stashed from my boat employment days........may have to steal your idea on the next car.:cool: :cool:
Don
-
5 Attachment(s)
After I got both sides tacked in place and assured that they were the same, I welded them solidly in place on the top sides. I will finish the welds on the bottom sides when I blow the car apart for finishing and painting. The first pic shows the welded perch. I lucked out that one of the gussets on each side (the rearmost ones) lined up with the vertical members in the frame rails.:)
The second pic is of the leftover piece of one of the main leaves that was cut off the springs. I measured up 3" from the center of the eye and cut it off. These will become the shackle brackets on the rear end.;)
In the third picture, I have bolted the springs in place (using the two remaining retainer plates and some 3/8" bolts), assembled the shackles and spring eyes, and welded the eyes to the rear axle housing. I took care here with a protractor to make sure that both shackles were in the same position and measured from the radius rod brackets to make sure the spring eyes are in the same location on the rear end housing.:rolleyes:
Pic four shows the springs in place and supporting the rear of the frame. Pic five is one of the springs (the right side) viewed from the side. With the body and turtle deck in place, they will be almost invisible.:cool:
All I lack in the rear suspension now is the panhard bar and rear shock absorbers...:D
-
Thanks for the kind words, Don.
I guess I should have explained that, since I am using hairpin style radius rods, I needed to use shackles at the rear of the springs and that will also necessitate the use of a panhard bar. You are right, though. If I had used the quarter-elliptic springs as either the top links or bottom links in a four-bar setup, I could have eliminated the shackles and the panhard bar. I almost need to do another rear end just to illustrate the method...:o
Hey, when your T-bucket roadster is done, are you going to put the '27 back together?:confused:
-
Sorry I posted in the middle of your posting....I thought you were done. :o
Yeah, I am going to redo the '27. It is behind the '39 after the T is running. It won't be a tough redo, but there are some changes I want to make, like lowering the engine a couple inches in the front and doing some different color combo. I'm really anxious to get back on the '39 though. Dan has all the hard work done already, pretty much, so I just have to finish it up. As a matter of fact, while I was priming and painting parts for the T last week, I also painted a few suspension pieces for the Dodge. I had left over primer and paint already mixed, and didn't want to waste it. Made me sort of antsy to get back on the Dodge, seeing them painted. But the last thing I need right now are two side by side builds. No faster way to get none of them running. :D :D
Don
PS: Just looked over your rear suspension again..........love it.
-
You make that rear end work look way too simple. I guess that is why it looks so good. Nice work. I look forward to more posts and pics.
-
5 Attachment(s)
With the springs installed it is time to dampen the "bounce factor".**) Mounting the shocks worked out to be really simple on this application. The shocks I used here are gas-charged mid-70's Camaro front shocks. (I originally had these on the back of my coupe, but changed them because I thought they were too stiff. As it turned out, it was the springs, not the shocks, that were too stiff, so these were left over.)
I began by exchanging the bottom radius rod bolts for longer ones. From the application described above, the bottoms of the shocks already have the mounting tubes cut off flush with the rubber grommets and the I.D. drilled out to accept a 1/2" diameter bolt. I slipped a 9/16" nut on the long bolt as a spacer, a washer on either side of the shock, and then a 1/2" nut. (The nuts used in these pics are just standard nuts. They will be replaced with self-locking nuts during final assembly).
I fabricated the top mounting brackets from 2 1/2" x 1/4" wall angle. Whenever possible, I like to use angle-iron for small brackets. If positioned correctly, it becomes self-gusseting.;) When fabricating parts like these, remember that they are the same but opposite so they will fit opposite sides.:whacked: I used the shocks, loosely bolted, to help me position the upper brackets. After tacking them in place and assuring that both sides were the same, I removed the shocks, welded the brackets solid, and then put the shocks back in place.:)
-
5 Attachment(s)
With the springs and shocks mounted, all this rear end needs is something to keep it centered.:confused: Like I did on the front end, I chose to use a panhard bar. I began by fabricating the bracket for the rear axle housing. I rough-cut this piece with a torch and then spent some time with the grinder to finish it. Again, I am using 2 1/2" x 1/4" wall angle. The shape I cut is self-gusseting so that I don't need to make two separate pieces and weld them together. Notice, also, that it is bent slightly near the top so I could offset it slightly toward the rear. I did it this way partly so that it would not hit the top of the rear axle housing and also so it would align more closely to where I needed to put the opposite end bracket on the frame.
The frame mounted bracket is also made from the same angle iron stock. It is welded to the little vertical member in the frame rail and self-gusseted to the top rail.:cool:
-
4 Attachment(s)
To fabricate the link (or bar), I centered the frame and measured the distance between the holes. It measured 21 inches. I then threaded the lock nuts and bungs (These are made from coupling nuts modified on a lathe; described in an earlier posting) onto the rod ends and laid them on the floor with the holes 21 inches apart. Without moving the rod ends, I measured the distance between the shoulders on the bungs (17 7/8"). I cut a piece of 3/4" O.D. tubing, cross drilled the ends, and welded the bungs into the tubing (this process was also described in an earlier posting). After grinding the plug-welds smooth and cleaning up the threads with a 1/2-20 tap, I installed the rod ends and bolted the bar in place. The rear suspension is finished...:D :D
-
You've got yourself a roller, Bud. :) Hard to believe you started this build just in April. Love that you are doing such different suspension too.
Don
-
I really admire your knack for homemade bracketry, there`s a ton of people that would spend days searching catalogs looking for a piece to use, the car is looking great. How do you estimate spring rate when using that setup? do you just buy a spring with twice the rate you need, then cut it in halve ?
-
The irony of springs is that when you shorten them they get stiffer!:eek: This is true of both leaf springs and coils. Think of it this way - if you have two pieces of steel rod the same diameter, but one is twce the length of the other, which one is easier to bend? Same principle. Whether it's a leaf, coil, or torsion bar, we are just flexing a piece of steel. The longer it is, the easier it flexes.:)
The springs I used here were chosen more for their length; I bought the longest thin-leaf ones that ACE had because I knew they would get stiffer when I cut them. The advantage to leaf springs is, if they have multiple leaves (in this case 4), the stiffness can be increased or decreased by adding or removing leaves.:3dSMILE:
-
Ok i got you, i totally did not think of it that way, but your right.
-
I just brought a pile of receipts in from the garage, so I thought this would be a good time to update the cost of the project so far.:rolleyes: I haven't had to buy any major components recently, so the cost has not taken a major jump. I have made numerous trips to buy Bolts and nuts, however, so I added them all together instead of listing them separately. Anyway, here's where I am so far:
Previous total: $1520.18
Nuts & bolts: 32.70
Tubing: 48.64
Pinto shocks: 35.38
Rubber hose (for bushings): 2.72
Springs & shackle bolts: 55.17
Perch plates & shackles & bolts: 27.56
Total: $1722.35
I have the engine and trans sitting here, but I traded labor for them. As I have said before, "Labor is free when you're workin' for yourself.":D
-
5 Attachment(s)
I am getting ready to leave for a week, but I wanted to set the engine & tranny in the frame before I left, so...
This job is much easier to accomplish with the body removed, but how do I know where to set the engine?:confused: I began by making a mockup of the firewall from a piece of masonite (In the pictures it looks like cardboard). Any thin, relatively stiff material can be used for this purpose. After notching the bottom edge to fit over the frame, I used a sharpie to trace the shape of the transmission tunnel onto the masonite and then cut it out. This piece was not the full size and shape of the actual firewall; I just needed something to get the location of the firewall and shape of the tunnel opening.
Next I removed the body, slung the engine into the frame, and then positioned the dummy firewall using my welder's magnets. Now I was able to position the engine in reference to the firewall and still have complete access to the transmission area.:rolleyes:
I lucked out here. After wrestling with wood blocks and shims for a while I discovered that a couple of pieces of pipe inserted through the frame rails held the engine and trans at the perfect height! I used a short piece of 4x4 between the engine and front crossmember to hold it back in the correct location.;)
I ran out of time and won't get to fabricate the engine mounts until I get back, but, after removing the shifter, I set the body and nose back in place just to verify the fit. Proportions look good so far...:3dSMILE:
-
The engine fits perfectly in there and also fits the image of a track car well. I think you mentioned the engine runs and all, so that should put you way ahead.
Looks good.
Don
-
Yes, the engine was running just a couple of days before it was removed from the S-10. The exhaust pipe is clean as a whistle inside which shows there was little or no oil consumption.:3dSMILE: I don't know the history of the truck, so I have no idea if this engine is original. My plan is to clean it up, paint it, adapt a carburetor in place of the injector body, and use it as-is.:rolleyes: I also intend to change the water pump and pulleys so I can get rid of the serpentine belt and idlers. Then I can move the alternator to the other side and down low. If I run it like it is, the alternator and idler will be sticking out of the body.:HMMM:
-
Should be a very dependable engine............those things are running around with a zillion miles on them. Peppy little buggers, too. My Sons both owned a few S10's, all four cylinder models, and they ran great. In a light T it should be really good.
Don
-
I'll share an alternator idea I have: I'm planning to use a high amperage motorcycle alternator on my 36. Gonna put it directly on the harmonic balancer. That plus an electric water pump, and VOILIA! NO BELTS.
-
Jim here i am trying to get a single belt and your getting rid of it . Mines costing a medium piggy back of silver .
-
EG - I like the alternator idea, but I drive the wheels off my cars and I like things that are easy to find/fix/replace if I break down in an obscure area.:o All of the electric water pumps that I have seen are made for short-term occasional usage like drag racing or mud bogs. Also, I've not looked to see if there is one that fits this engine...:confused:
Bobby - You can have this belt if you can make it work...:LOL: Seriously, the serpentine belt would be OK if it didn't stick out everywhere. I eventually will run a full hood on this car, so I need to move everything inboard. Right now, the alternator is hanging out on the passenger side and the idler pulley is on a bracket on the left. Both of them are completely outside the contour of the nose.:HMMM:
-
Jim the cars looking good and the engine looks right at home . Looks like it needs a pillow and blanket it sits so nice.
Jim thats a problem i hope doesnt happen here . If it does like you i'll have to change for the hood also. I dug out the 84 a/c brkt and held it up and it was allmost in line with right tire .
-
5 Attachment(s)
I had the engine and transmission sitting in place on a couple of pipes stuck through the frame and it fit nicely, so it's time to make some permanent mounts.:rolleyes:
After considerable thought, I decided to use the S-10 mounts. I could have fabricated a saddle mount, but there aren't any easily useable bolt-holes in the front of the 4-banger block like a V-8 Chevy. I could have built solid mounts, but I have seen them cause cracked blocks.:eek: So, here's what I did.
First, I cut two pieces of 3/16" x 3" flat stock (4 5/8" long) to fit the back of the S-10 mounts and drilled 13/32" holes to match. At this point I discovered that the mounts are not exactly identical;:confused: they are labeled "R" and "L" and the holes are reversed from one side to the other (upside down). After bolting the plates to the mounts, I tack-welded the nuts in place.
Next step was to bolt the mounts to the stock brackets on the engine and make sure the engine is centered in the frame. Interestingly, I discovered that the engine is not symetrical. I centered the crankshaft pulley between the frame rails, of course, and discovered that the left mount plate is 1 1/4" from the frame rail while the right one is only 5/8" away!:HMMM: I cut the appropriate size spacers form the 3/16" x 3" flat stock and tacked them in place. (Left side shown in picture)
Lastly, I cut and notched a short piece of 3/4" tubing to support the bottom of the mount plate. This piece is installed forward of center so it would clear the nut on the back side of the mount plate. After everything was welded securely (some final welding will be done when I blow the car apart for finishing), I removed the pipe from under the oil pan; the front of the engine is now sitting on its own permanent mounts.:3dSMILE:
-
Looking good, JR. I like the idea of using stock mounts...........you can replace them at any auto parts store. Plus, the factory spent a ton of money developing them, so they are engineered to do the job correctly.
It's amazing what you get done each session. :D :D
Don
-
Thanks, Don.:o Yeah, I like using commonly available stuff. I've always reasoned that if my car breaks down in Ballzitch, Iowa at 2:00 AM Sunday morning, I dont want to be stuck waiting several days to have some high-zoot oddball part delivered. Everything on my cars is either commonly available or something I made myself that I can repair or duplicate. Specialty equipment manufacturers hate people like me...:LOL:
I'd be moving a little faster on this project, but with school out of session I am involved in some household projects that are interrupting my progress.:CRY: Next on the list is the transmission mount crossmember...
-
Guess I haven't been checking this one for awhile.... Don't take this wrong, but I'm a bit nervous about all the suspension components, especially the hairpins on the axle end, being mounted in single shear..... Hate to see a big pothole snap something crucial some day.... Maybe either a double bracket, or even a clevis end instead of a heim end might build in a bit of a safety margin?????
-
Hi Dave. Certainly no offense taken; actually I appreciate your concern.:o The bottom line is, the radius rod itself would either bend or snap long before those grade 8 bolts give way. If the rod end breaks, double brackets would have no effect either way. Clevises are a viable alternative, but they are really no stronger than good quality rod ends. I guess it comes down to personal preference; anyone building a car should do whatever makes them feel confident and secure...
-
I agree with J, I think it's called shear strength and it's incredible how much force it takes to shear off a grade 8 bolt that size.
-
4 Attachment(s)
I left off with the front motor mounts done; next comes the transmission mount crossmember. I like for the transmission crossmember to be removable so that the transmission can be removed/replaced without pulling the engine out of the car. I have made a number of these, over the past 30 years, in the method I am describing here. It is simple and easy to do.;)
I am using the stock Chevy S-10 rubber trans mount. First, I have the tailshaft of the transmission propped up at the desired height and centered between the framerails (actually, this was done prior to building the front mounts) and the rubber mount bolted in place on the trans. I begin fabricating the crossmember by making a plate to fit under the rubber mount. In this instance, it is a piece of 1/4" x 3" flat stock cut 3" long, two of its four corners rounded off, and drilled in the center. I bolted this plate, finger tight, to the rubber mount. Next, I cut a piece of 1" OD tubing so that it would fit between the framerails and put a slight bend in the center. How much of a bend, if any, depends on your application and it is a matter of trial & error. I bent this one so it would fit under the back (straight) edge of the mount plate. Once satisfied with the general shape of the tube, I removed the plate from the rubber mount and welded it to the tube. It is positioned so it is centered from side to side and the rounded corners stick out from the tube.
After the crossmember cooled off from being welded, I bolted the whole thing to the trans mount so I see where to put the frame mount brackets. At this point I discovered that the bend was a little too deep and I needed to bend the ends back down slightly. With the mount plate welded in place, it wouldn't fit back in my bender, so I notched each end on the chop saw, bent them down, and welded them in position.
The frame mount brackets are made from a piece of 1 1/4" OD tubing cut 3" long and split down the center so that the 1" OD crossmember will fit into it. (I have also made these brackets from angle iron on some previous jobs, including the ones on my coupe.) Now, with the crossmember bolted to the rubber mount once again, I vise-gripped the brackets in position and tack-welded them to the frame. I lucked out here because the brackets are positioned so that they weld to the lower frame rail and to the back side of the rear radius rod bracket. This makes the crossmember brackets "self-gusseting", so no additional gussets or braces aer necessary.:3dSMILE:
After tack-welding the brackets, I removed the crossmember again and welded the brackets solidly in place (More welding will be done on the bottom when I disassemble the car for finishing.).
-
2 Attachment(s)
The final step to completing the transmission crossmember is to put it back in position and drill the bolt holes through each end. I use 3/8" bolts. When I do final assembly on the car, I will use grade 8 bolts with self-locking nuts. Finally, the engine is sitting on its permanent mounts.:D
-
1 Attachment(s)
Look at that last picture............you've pretty much got a car there !! :) :) You got serious about this project in April, and have gotten this far in such a short amount of time. Very impressive. It takes me that long to figure out how to make the next bracket. :o
Regarding the hairpins, I was just looking at the ones on my '27 the other day, and realized how spindly they are. The threaded studs for the rod ends are only like 1/2 inch, compared to the normal 5/8 like on my T and most other cars. Yet they were driven very hard on all kinds of conditions and roads for lots of years, and never were any problem. I think we rodders tend to over engineer stuff, and if you look at some of the thin bracketry on production cars, or on aftermarket hot rod components, you wonder how they hold up.........but they do.
Tell the Mrs you have 20,000 people looking over your shoulder here waiting for the next update. Maybe she will let you put off those honeydo's until the car is done. :rolleyes: :) (Oh yeah, that might really happen :LOL: )
The picture below shows how skinny the front hairpins on the '27 are.
Don
-
Yeah, I've seen a lot of old hotrods from the 50's and 60's and skinny little radius rods were common. The problem is compounded when you see those skinny little pieces used on a tube axle. When the car leans over in a corner, something somewhere has to flex and it's usually the radius rods that do the flexing.:eek: Amazingly, after many years and many thousands of miles, there are a lot of them that have survived and are still in use...**)
I use 1/2" rod ends on the front ends of my cars and have been doing it for years, but I use 3/4" OD tubing with a thread bung welded in the end instead of that scrawny 5/8" with threads cut directly inside like the stuff you see from the old days...:whacked:
20,000 people!!?:HMMM: :rolleyes: I wonder how many people actually follow a thread like this...:confused: I think her attitude is more like,"You already have one hotrod, why the big hurry on this one?" Anyway, I need to keep her happy. You see, one of our other hobbies is shooting. She's pretty good with her military style .45 (Taurus PT-1911) and absolutely wicked with her 9mm (Taurus PT-92). Whenever we go to the range, she always puts her first two rounds in the silhouette where his family jewels would be.:eek: :LOL: :LOL: She claims it's unintentional, but I have to wonder if it's some kind of unspoken warning...:o
-
5 Attachment(s)
With the engine mounted, I have moved on to building the radiator and grille shell support. The radiator I am using is an aluminum racing radiator for a Honda Civic. It fits the grille shell with room to spare and has the mounts already on it for a Honda Civic electric fan. After mocking up the radiator at a few different angles and evaluating the pros and cons of each, I decided to push the bottom of it forward almost to the front crossmember and tilt it back slightly so that the radiator cap is accessible without removing the grille shell.:rolleyes:
The first step here was to bend a piece of 3/4" OD tubing to fit the shape of the inside of the nose (grille shell). There was no science or elaborate calculations involved here; I just cut a piece of tubing about 10" too long, started at the center, and began bending it a little at a time until I got a hoop with a pretty good fit. Then I wedged it in place between the framerails with the nose mocked up in position and marked where to cut the bottom ends off.;)
The next step was to fabricate the brackets to bolt this hoop to. I cut two 4" long pieces of old bed rail material (lightweight angle iron) and drilled a hole through the corner edge of each. Then, with the hoop lying flat on the floor, I vise-gripped the brackets in place so I could mark where to drill the bolt holes.:HMMM:
With the brackets now bolted to the hoop, I clamped the assembly in place so I could weld the brackets to the frame. Notice in the picture I had to clamp the bracket 3 directions at once to get the correct angle; to the side, to the front, and to the hoop. Everything was measured multiple times to make sure both sides are the same, the brackets tack-welded in place, clamps removed and nose and radiator checked for fit. Once satisfied, I removed the nose and radiator and welded the brackets solid.:)
-
Ah, teaching a woman to shoot a gun is like, well, like........TEACHING A WOMAN TO SHOOT A GUN !! What were you thinking , man ??????? :LOL: Didn't you learn anything from Lorraina Bobitt??? :eek: :eek: :eek: :LOL:
If I were you, I would do those chores like RIGHT NOW. :3dSMILE:
Don
-
5 Attachment(s)
With the support hoop finished, the next step is to make the appropriate bracketry for mounting the radiator. In its stock application, the Civic radiator uses a rubber insulated 3-point mounting system. Since the mounting studs are already welded in place, I decided to put them to use.;)
The first task was to find some useable rubber insulators. A trip to the local hardware store netted me some electrical grommets that, used in combination, will suit the purpose. The large diameter thin ones fit over the weld on the studs and protect the radiator tanks from rubbing the steel brackets I will make. The small diameter thick ones will keep the studs centered in the bracket "cups".
I began making the brackets by cutting 3 rings from a piece of 1" black iron pipe. The rings are 1/2" wide to match the thickness of the small grommets. Next, for the bottom brackets, I cut two pieces of 3/16" x 3" flat stock 2 1/2" long and welded a ring to one corner of each of them. Note that these two pieces are opposites of each other.:rolleyes:
I used some weatherstrip adhesive to hold the large grommets in place on the radiator. The small grommets fit perfectly in the "cups" I just made.
The final step for the lower brackets was to position them on the front crossmember and weld them in place. To do that, I mocked up the radiator in position with the brackets in place (because they are not spaced equally on the radiator), tack-welded them, removed the radiator, and welded them solid.:)