Another build thread? Yep, my track-style T

I didn't get as far as I wanted today:mad: , but I did get one hood side cut out.:rolleyes: As I stated somewhere above, I am making the hood from reclaimed steel industrial shelving. During some renovations at the school where I teach, some old shelving was replaced. I salvaged five pieces of the old stuff that was in pretty pristine condition. The finish is somewhat worn (who cares?), but there are no dents or gouges; that's why I grabbed these pieces. The one in the first picture is typical of all.

The second picture shows the "tools of the trade". I used a metal yardstick, a framing square, a tape rule, a Sharpie pen, and some aviator snips. (I would have used my air-powered metal shears, but they decided to die before I made the first cut!) In this picture I have already removed one lip off the shelf and trimmed the edge (closest to the camera) straight.

In the third pic you can see some of the layout lines. I just measured from the firewall to the nose piece with the tape rule, transferred the dimensions to the steel with the metal yardstick and framing square, marked the lines with the Sharpie, and cut out the shape with the snips. It was almost a perfect rectangle, but the top edge is 1/4" longer than the bottom.

Once the rectangular piece was cut out, I held it in place on the car to determine where I needed to cut the bottom out for frame clearance. Then, back to the table one more time for a quick trim and this step is done. The fourth pic shows it taped on the car. Before I quit for the day, I tried this piece on the opposite side of the car; it fit fine but is 1/8" too long. It will be simple to make the second piece; I will use this first one as a pattern and just shorten it 1/8".;) :3dSMILE:

WOW, that firewall is excellent. You're a genius, I would never have thought of that, nor how to accomplish it. Doesn't the drill/brush want to 'run away' and just spin all over the place. That's what would happen to me, and when it was 98% done so all that time and effort would be wasted! Perley

I didn't get as far as I wanted the last time, but it worked out OK. As it is, it gave me time to study what I had done and I decided to cut 2 1/2 inches off the top of the hood sides. I did this so that it will simplify building the exhaust system later.:HMMM: So.., after trimming the top off the side that I already made, I used it as a pattern to make the opposite side.

On the right side I encountered a little clearance problem with the outer water jacket on the intake manifold, so I made short work of it with my Sawzall. I'll complete this modification later...

With the hood sides cut to fit, the next step is to reinforce the top edge. The reinforcement is added there to stabilize the edges where the hood tops will meet and latch to them. I made the reinforcement pieces from 1/8 x 1 1/4 flat stock. After cutting the flat stock to length, I drilled 1/4" holes along the top edge of the hood sides, 4" apart.

With the reinforcement strip situated half under the hood side and half exposed, I welded through the holes to attach the reinforcement to the flat stock. After welding, I dressed the spots flat with a grinder. There are some small dimples left in the welds, but rather than risk warping the panels with more welding, I will fill these little imperfections with glazing putty later when I'm doing paint prep.;)

With the reinforcement welded in place, I drilled a 17/64 hole through the hood side and reinforcement in each end, clamped the hood sides in place, and drilled matching holes in the hood support lips on the firewall and nose. I attached the panels with 1/4" stainless steel button head allen bolts. I will add mounting holes at the bottoms of these panels later; I still have more work to do on them first.:rolleyes:

Meantime, with the panels temporarily in place, I was able to begin making the patterns for the hood top pieces. The top will be made in two halves with a piano hinge down the center. Using good ol' trusty poster board again, I cut and fit the left half. That was as far as I got today...:3dSMILE:

Looks awesome. That hood and sides are going to be smooth and clean. Going to run any louvers?

Perley - Yes, the drill tries to run away; you need a strong grip on it. Once you get the hang of it, though, it's pretty easy. If you make a mistake, just go over it again.:o

FMX- Funny you should ask... As it happens, the guy who gave me my first ever ride in a hotrod (in 1960 or '61) has a louver press. I have a call in to a mutual friend to see if he will punch my side panels...:cool:

Wow Jim, that hood is going to be terrific when done. Starting to look like a real track car.:) BTW, if your Buddy doesn't come through on the louvers, let me know. We used a guy in Orlando for Dan's tonneau cover and he was really good, and a super nice guy. Price was only $ 2.00 each, and he even offered us a rebate because not all the louvers would fit the way we prepaid him for. We told him to keep the $ as a tip, but he insisted we had a credit on his books. I would recommend him in a heartbeat, and he is right in your back yard.

You are cooking right along there. :D

Don

Thanks, Don. I really like the look of it with the hood so far. Louvers will be the finishing touch. If I don't hear from my old friend soon I'll be wanting the address or phone number of the guy in Orlando.:o

It won't be long now until I blow this thing apart for finishing...:3dSMILE:

Jim,
It's really getting close, and really looks good. Have you decided on things sticking out of your hood, velocity stacks, headers? I know I should just wait and see but I was just wondering. Are you going to do any of the engine turning in the dash?
Ken

Thanks Ken.

Yes, the carburetor(s?) will be sticking up through the passenger side and the exhaust will come out the driver's side. I am actually going to make two right side hood half pieces. That way, if I change induction later, I will already have a hood piece that I can trim to fit the new system.;)

The dash will be engine-turned to match the firewall. When I paint the body I will give them both a generous coating of clear urethane.:D

Jim,
Sometimes I should keep my mouth shut, but the theme you have I think that will look great. I was hoping you would do that. Maybe 2 extra hood sides :D fuel injection would look nice.
Ken

That will look awesome, the louvers will look great too. If I had a louver press, holy crap, I think every piece of metal around my house would have louvers in it whether it looked good or not. :D Cabinets, cars, trucks, tables, electrical boxes.... haha
Also, did you say you are using a poster board like cardboard for the shaping of things? It looks like it from the pictures but not sure if it is as thin as I am thinking.

FMX - Yes, just ordinary poster board. In the past I have used all sorts of things (corrugated paste board boxes, notepad backs, manila folders, pizza boxes, shoe boxes:HMMM: ). Thin and stiff is the key. Corrugated box material and pizza boxes were the worst - too thick to cut accurately and doesn't bend well. The others are OK, but don't come in big enough pieces for making body panel templates... So, poster board is my usual choice. It's stiff enough for most things yet easy to draw on and cut...:)

OK, this will be pretty short. I left off last time with the pattern made for the left hood half. The next logical step, of course, was to make the pattern for the right half. Making these patterns is mostly a matter of "cut & try" until you get them to fit properly. A little extra time spent here can save a lot of time later...:rolleyes:

After getting both patterns fit so I was satisfied, it was simply a matter of transferring the patters to the steel I am using and cut them out. Notice that I labeled them so that I would not confuse which was which or how they go later. I did this because the two pieces are not 100% identical (differences in the nose/ cowl from side to side).:HMMM:

Lastly, I cut them out. The good news is I got my air shears working again, so I don't have any blisters on my hands.;) Now all I have to do is form them to fit...:3dSMILE:

I like how you're doing the build with what's on hand. Really gave me idea's for my '27 project roadster for rear springs. Your ideas of using "common" parts on hand or local (for breakdown repair) is great. I have drove my '29AA all over the west and agree that breakdowns will occur and there is not "next day air" service to be had at all locations.

I will be keeping a eye on your build. If you want I will post a pic of the '23 dirt track style roadster I built a few years ago. Used the Chevy II 153" four with dual 45DCOE Webers and other go fast goodies (like it only got 9 mpg) It was a blast.

Keep your four banger stock for the best in mph. Which I could not do, just not in me LOL.

Earl

Thanks Earl. Yes, I would like to see the pics of your T. Sounds like you and I think somewhat alike.:cool:

OK. I have my hood panels cut out, but the apparatus I was planning to use for forming them didn't work out, so I will have to put them on hold for a few days. I will explain more in detail when I finally get back to them. For now, I am going to move on to another little job that I need to finish...

Some time ago (and many postings) I fabricated a pair of matching plates with holes in diagonal corners, welded nuts to one of them, and then welded it to the frame under the floor near the firewall on the passenger side. The purpose of these plates is to provide the bracketry for attaching the removable center brace of the roll bar.

I began this episode by drilling up through the bottom plate's holes (with a bit small enough not to hurt the threads) through the fiberglass floor. After enlarging the holes slightly from the topside, I bolted the second plate in place.

Next, I made the bracket plate for the top by splitting a piece of tubing down the center, cutting it to length, and drilling a pair of 3/8" holes.

With the bottom plate bolted down and the top one C-clamped in place, I cut the brace to fit. This piece is cut from the same size tubing as the roll bar. Fitting it was just a matter of "cut & try" method. Once I was satisfied with the fit at both ends, I tack welded it to the plates. Then I removed it and welded the plates solidly to the tube.

Finally, I put it back in place, bolted down the bottom end, and then drilled through the roll bar for the top bracket. I put a pair of grade-8 bolts through the top, but this is just temporary. As soon as I get back to this, I will open these holes up and weld a small tube through each one to restore the integrity of the tubing and also to keep it from crushing when the bolts are tightened. Unfortunately, I ran out of time...:( :rolleyes: :D

My T used a home built frame based on a plan by CCR (Cali. Custom Roadsters). Ran the Chevy II 153" four with a shaved head (.55) Cilfford 280H cam, Rhodes lifters, .30 over flattop pistons. Had a T50 non-overdrive 5 speed feeding a 4:11 8" Ford Mavrick rear. Unknow body with a CCR turtle deck. Homemade nerf bars (Your right on the think along same lines, look at "our" front nerfs lol).

couple more, also notice "we" used alum. sheet (mines plain) on firewal:3dSMILE:

Nice car, Earl. Where is it now?:3dSMILE:

The split wishbones with the side-nerfs mounted to the rear ones is VERY traditional. If you like track-T's (obviously you do), take a look at "Roaring Roadsters" by Don Radbruch. If you had put a hood top and a simple roll bar in that car it would have looked like it fell out of that book.:cool:

The '23 style body with turtle deck on a custom frame was considered the "hot setup". These cars were called "California style", but were popular all over the west coast from Washington to Southern Cal and in the Indiana - Ohio areas. Most were powered by early Chevy four-bangers with Oldsmobile heads (I've never seen one; that's what the book says). The Ford flathead (surprisingly) didn't really take over until the last couple of years before the demise of the roadsters in about 1955.:HMMM:

Pic below from "Roaring Roadsters" by Don Radbruch:

Thanks,:3dSMILE:I liked the car. Sold it to a young (30's) guy in Ft. Collins couple years ago plus some other hot rods.

Agree on the roll bar-hood. Just could not fiqure out how to do it and look nice. Really like how you have done yours. Just wish I'd thought of it, or saw it before, when I was building mine.:(

I have both of the roadster books. Agree on the western style. The midwest were more of the jalopy look. And you are right. The flathead V8 was not the hot setup until the '50s. BTW I saw the races live in early-mid 50's (starting to give my age away LOL). By then the jalopy style was taking over and when SBC came out Speedway Motors '32 sedan had that and was wicked. Won almost all the races. (SE Nebr.)

Yours is really going together nice:) Keep up the good work and keep the thread updated as you can.

Earl

Well, I keep hopping back and forth, but at least something's getting done... Back to the hood! I stopped after cutting out the panels for the hood tops because I had a problem with forming them to a usable shape.:( Some time ago I made the apparatus in the first picture below. It looks a lot like an ordinary sawhorse, but the top of it is made from a piece of 2" black iron pipe welded next to a piece of 1/4" wall 3" angle iron with a 1/16th" space between them. With this I can bend sheet metal with either a gentle radius or a sharp corner.

I initially thought I would be able to form my hood tops on this, but soon discovered that it wasn't going to work. I ended up with a bunch of bend lines or creases running the length of the piece!:mad: (Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture!) OK, I needed something with a larger radius... I was standing in the garage alternately staring at the ruined hood piece and gazing out the door when I noticed that the light pole out by the street might be about the right size. I screwed a piece of angle iron to the light pole with a washer under each end and used this arrangement to wrap the other hood top around the pole. (I didn't take a picture of this because it's illegal to attach anything to a light pole!:eek: ) Well.., this didn't work either. The pole was too large so it didn't bend a tight enough radius. Also, light poles aren't real smooth, so this piece came out with lumps and lines too! It was all this difficulty that prompted me to go buy my English Wheel. I've been wanting one of these things forever and this looked like a good excuse to finally get one. The $239 price tag at Harbor Freight is probably less than it would cost me to have a hood custom built and I get to keep the tool...:3dSMILE:

Having never used an English Wheel before, I thought it would be prudent to use the first hood top (that I thought was ruined) as a practice piece. After rolling it lengthwise with a mildly curved wheel, I noticed that the bend marks began to disappear! I switched to a flat wheel and started wheeling the piece from side to side across the bend... Holy crap, Batman! This thing was starting to look pretty good!:eek: I followed suit with the other side (the one I wrapped around the light pole) and it came out pretty nice, too! The final pic is of both pieces taped together on the car. They'll need a little "tweaking" by hand, but I am really pleased with the results of my first wheeling experience.:D

Glad to see you getting some use out of your new English Wheel. :) I'm like you, never had real luck bending sheetmetal over poles and stuff. I watched Chip Foose form that one hood on a round support column, but I guess that's why he is Chip Foose and I'm not. :o

Hood came out good Jim, finshes off the front of the car very well.

Don

Jim, when I wake up in the morning, as I’m sleep typing now because of pain and cannot sleep. I’ll send you a link to a site where a guy reinforced his e-wheel and polished his anvils. On some of the other sites they are completely against these but if we all had unlimited funds we could buy the better ones. I have one and it was get it or not get one at all and it is at least better then primitive methods.

Richard

Check out this site he made some improvements on his.

http://www.jamesriser.com/Machinery/...l/Finally.html

JR

Your car just keeps looking better and better! It flows well and sits right.:cool: What kind of wheels are you going to use?

Glad you had good luck with the E wheel. I've been thinking about getting one.

Mike

I like how the hood top came out. Going to need to get a HF English wheel. Like the overall looks of the car. Just like hotrod46, I too wonder what the wheel/tire combo will be.

Earl

Hood looks good, did you buy a lotto ticket, being so lucky not to have scrap all that metal.
BradC

Thanks for all the compliments, guys. It's turning out like I had intended so far...:cool:

Don - You know I couldn't resist playing with a new toy. I just wish I had had this thing a couple years ago when I was making body parts for my coupe and my son's sedan.:rolleyes:

Richard - Thanks for the link. I have saved it to my computer and when I get the roadster done I may do those improvements, at least polishing the anvils. I agree, if it comes down to having this tool from Harbor Freight or not having one at all... no contest!:HMMM:

Mike - Go for it; I think you'll be pleased. I priced English Wheels at Biketoberfest a couple of years ago; major $$$$. They wanted $500+ just for the rollers and some plans. This thing is well worth the money even if I have to reinforce it later. So far, though, it's doing OK.:3dSMILE:

Earl & Mike - The wheels will be painted steel wheels. I am trying to replicate the look of the track roadsters from the late '40's - early '50's. I may add trim rings and center caps, but not sure.:confused:

Brad - Yeah, I buy Lotto tickets every week, but I ain't THAT lucky yet. I sure would like to make that phone call; you know the one that goes: "Take this job and shove it!" Seriously, I am really happy with the way this worked out; I'm out of shelving to cut up!:LOL:

OK, so I've got a couple of shaped panels. What's next? The center hinge, of course!:rolleyes:

I used an ordinary piano hinge available at ACE Hardware. To strengthen the area, I used a strip of 1/8 x 3/4 flat stock on each edge. After drilling the flat stock pieces and the edge of each hood piece to match the holes in the hinge, I riveted the pieces together with large-head 3/16 pop-rivets. The hinge is sandwiched between the hood and the flat stock. I only put in every-other rivet for now in case I need to disassemble it. When everything goes together for the final time and I do the paint prep, I will intall the remaining rivets and fill the little holes in the center of them so they will look like aircraft rivets (pop-rivets didn't exist in the '40's - '50's).:D

Ok was it your the English or Math teacher who definitly should be a shop teacher . Well im sure job security is better where your at . But you really are a well versed sheet metal man also . I keep studying the Green Machine and following this thread with all enthusiasim ( no english major ) LOL but i love cars . Jim you have done some miraculous things please keep up the good work .

Thanks, Bobby. I've been screwing around with mechanical things since I was a little kid and I'm still learning...:rolleyes:

No, I'm not an English or Math teacher. My degree is in Industrial Arts/Technology Education with additional vocational certifications in Auto Mechanics and Auto Body Repair. I have taught Woodworking, Engineering Tech, Auto Mechanics (before computers), Auto Body Repair, and now Construction. I have worked as a Mechanic, Bodyman, Welder/Fabricator, Machinist, Carpenter, Framer, Technical Writer/Illustrator, and of course, a Teacher.:HMMM:

I'm not really trying to blow my own horn; just showing that I am truly a "Jack of all trades"... Oh, by the way, my wife is the English teacher, so I BETTER get the spelling and grammar right!:LOL: :LOL:

You are my kind of teacher J! The car is looking fantastic, the hood is just right. Planning any louvers?

Thanks, Brickman. Yes, I want to put two rows of louvers in each side panel. I am waiting to hear from an old friend up in Indiana. The guy who gave me my first ever ride in a hotrod almost 50 years ago has a louver punch in his shop. I thought it would be neat if I could get him to punch the louvers for me since his roadster (which he still owns & drives [see below]) was part of the inspiration for mine.:cool: He's kind of cantankerous sometimes and picks & chooses the jobs he wants to do, so time will tell. If he doesn't come through for me, I'll get them done locally.:rolleyes:

Just don't let her read this . I have to ask my wife on the big words LOL . Car and Hotrod are very easy one's . What I am learning here is what they call a ratrod is a track T in real terms low to the ground and center of gravity changed . Looking at Moe's garage the old time pics didn't use that technology back then . So correct me if I'm wrong a Track T is a mixture of 1940's vintage racing with some midget type style built into the car .

Hmmm... Actually, rat rod is a fairly recent term and really has nothing to do with track-T's. Let's see if I can define this for you... :HMMM:

The track-style T as we know it now is usually a '23 or '27 T roadster body with turtle deck and sprint car or midget nose and a hood. In reality, probably only about a third of the post-war track-T's actually had race car noses on them. The rest often had Model-A or '32 grille shells on them. Apparently, according to the books I have, all of them had at least a hood top with the majority having fully enclosed hoods. I suppose there must have been rules that required a hood. In all the pictures I have, only one car has a pickup bed; all the rest have a rear bustle (turtle deck). I assume that the rules required that the fuel tank be enclosed inside the body, hence the use of the rear bustle. There were NO bob-tail track-T cars. Bob-tailed cars are more closely akin to the "lakes-modified" cars that ran on the dry lakes and salt flats. If you see a roadster that has a sprint car nose and a bob-tail, it's a sort of half-breed...:whacked:

The car that I am building somewhat replicates the "California style" track roadsters that were popular on the west coast and in the Indiana - Ohio region. These were the forerunners of the modern sprint car. Unfortunately, although I grew up in Indiana, a veritable hotbed of roadster racing, I never got to see them run! By the time I was old enough to go to the track with my parents, all the roadsters at the local tracks in our area had already evolved into sprint cars.:CRY:

A few postings back, when I mounted the hood sides, I said I had more work to do to the bottom edges of them. What I meant was that I needed to do some shaping for frame clearance.:rolleyes:

To accomplish this, I began by clamping the hood sides, one at a time, to my "shaping horse" (described earlier) with the inside facing up and the edge of the angle iron aligned with the top of the cutout (Look at the picture; it helps my description to make sense).:HMMM:

Next, I used the soft end of a dead-blow hammer to crease the hood side back about 7 or 8 inches. Then I held a body dolly under the bottom edge and used the dead-blow hammer between the crease and the edge to slightly curl the area outward. A few swipes of this area on the English Wheel to smooth the hammer marks and it's done. In the pictures you can see how the shape adds a little finish detail to the fit rather than cutting the hood side back further.;)

With everything fitting now, I installed the hood latches. These are ordinary draw-tight hasps (toolbox latches) available at any hardware store. I didn't take any pics of the installation; it was just a matter of locating the pieces where they needed to go and pop-riveting them in place.:D

Were your ears burning a couple of nights ago? I was telling Dan you bought an English Wheel and that you had used it to bend up your hood. He was amazed that you were able to do that because of the learning curve. I told him you are full of surprises! :LOL: :LOL: You are a very crafty guy.

Hood looks better and better all the time. :D

Don

Thanks, Don. I'm not sure how crafty I am; it was probably beginner's luck. I am having fun playing with that thing, though. You guys should get one, but wait until Dan gets his car on the road. If you get one now he'll be wanting to start over again so he can make his own body!:LOL: :LOL:

The good news is my old friend up in Indiana has agreed to do my louvers! I'll be sending these hood sides off to him soon.:3dSMILE:

The bad news is the cost of paint... I bought 3 quarts of DuPont Chromabase to paint my chassis & wheels - $373.01 !!!:eek: I haven't bought the catalyst and clearcoat yet...:HMMM:

Wow, that is a hard hit pricewise! :eek: It's amazing how much money we all put into incidentals that we never plan on when building a car. I think we have a fortune in just grinding discs and those Norton rice cake thingies.

I'm anxious to see your hood all louvered..........bet you are too. :)


Yep, you are right about keeping Dan away from any distractions. Just the other day he was asking how hard it would be to install a/c in the roadster so it wouldn't be visible. I told him his top would be good enough.
Don

Of course I had to choose the most expensive color on the chart - RED! Anything with red pigment is more expensive...:rolleyes: Too bad most of it won't show when the car is finished! I expected a hard hit (paint is a petroleum product), but it was worse than expected.:HMMM:

Yes, the louvers should add a nice finishing touch to the front end. I am having just the sides louvered and leaving the top alone.:)

Yeah, we've got to keep that boy focused. Tell him A/C is for pussies...:eek: No, that's not right; I wish I had A/C in my coupe... Uhh, tell him he can't hide the A/C unless he puts the ugly old master cylinder out on the firewall so it won't be in the way under the cowl. That should do it!:3dSMILE: Tell him he can put A/C in the '49. Ooh! Tell him there's been a change in plans and he needs to have the RPU done in time for the Daytona Dream Cruise in October.:eek: Yeah, then he won't have time to mess with A/C right now...;)

Seriously, if you look up the gallery of NVRRDUNN, he is putting A/C under the cowl of his '31 coupe. Maybe you shouldn't show that to Dan right now though...:LOL:

Yup, J. R. is a VERY crafty guy, to be sure, from what I observed on my short visit this spring! Great work too. I am taking lessons Jim. Just the other day I was ready to order some motor mounts from a catalog for my inline 6. Then, just as I punched the computer button, I thought, J. Robinson wouldn't do that, he'd BUILD them. So-----------three or four hours later I had a set. I hope they work ok. I made the frame side from 2 x 3 box tube fancied up a little. The motor side has a triangular plate with bolt holes and a piece of 2" square tube cut on a long taper and trimmed some on the end. And donut type cushion mounts from Speedway! I feel really really good about it too. Now for my Nephew welder again! Thanks for the inspiration, Jim, Don, Dan, and lots of others too. I love this site and these build threads. Whole education on hot rod builds. Perley