Thread: Feedback on paint graphics?

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Unless you were there, unless you were at the funerals, unless you were near ground zero weeks later, you and "the vet" will never understand just how distasteful the artwork really is.

Do you want to show patriotism and support of our troopers and service men and women in the artwork, if so, you missed that message 100%. No matter who wants to pat you on the back, I sorry to say, they don't get it either as they were not there.

Bill S.

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

If this is too upsetting for the forum, I don't object to taking it down.

I had sent the question out to many of my car buddies, and I posted it on two forums. I found that about 80% who responded liked it... mostly for the patriotism involved... and some saw it as a tribute to those who died. The other 20% disliked it either because it was not traditional car art... or they critiqued the concept on the details chosen... or for some of the negative feelings about the attack that were voiced here.

The owner, being a Vet, chose it for the patriotic impact, and as a tribute. At least I can give him some input on what to expect from enthusiasts. Thanks guys. I've been doing this for others for over 40 years... but I am still learning about the public's perceptions. {:-)

Being of strong Christian principals (a little condescending on your part to think that only Christian principals are above all others), would you airbrush a bloody Jesus nailed to a cross on the hood of that Corvette?

There are reasons for everything in life, yet at the same time, there are reasons why I used to refuse to do certain custom paint work due to my own morals. Did I lose customers because of it, sure, but I'll bet I gained far more by not doing it.

In this case, repaint the hood, explain to your client that this is in such poor taste (as the strong Christian that you are) that you cannot sleep with yourself at night by allowing it out of your shop.

A strong christian would never have painted what you have, so perhaps your christian faith is not as strong as you make it out to be.

Bill S.

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

I can understand that for people close to the disaster it would have been a traumatizing event!

I realized decades ago that my job is to help others take a concept that they decided on, and get it onto their project.

I do have limits to what I will do for an owner. I have always drawn the line at total nudity, and demonic subjects. An example would be skulls. I've done them a lot. If they are symbols for death or even comedy, no problem. I would however refuse if they wanted horns or fangs, or if they displayed evil in other ways.

One thing I did appreciate about his concept was that, following such a horrific happening, it told a story of the actions taken as a result of the attack. America might be built on loving and understanding Christian principles... but we also will not allow others to brutalize our country without paying a substantial price. I agreed to do this for that patriotic reason. (I lost a nephew over there to a roadside bomb.)

"Cars as art" ...it is sometimes personal.

I'll post the following article from Forbe (2012) that has yet to be torn apart or refuted by any group to date:

Was America Founded As A Christian Nation? - Forbes

Regardless of your religious upbringing (some are staunch in their beliefs, based on their upbringing, others can sit back and read this with an open mind, regardless of their upbringing), it's well researched, and well written, and has not been torn apart by any of the religious groups, both conservative or ultra radical.

Bill S.

Originally Posted by mrmustang

I'll post the following article from Forbe (2012) that has yet to be torn apart or refuted by any group to date:

Was America Founded As A Christian Nation? - Forbes

Regardless of your religious upbringing (some are staunch in their beliefs, based on their upbringing, others can sit back and read this with an open mind, regardless of their upbringing), it's well researched, and well written, and has not been torn apart by any of the religious groups, both conservative or ultra radical.

Bill S.

Wow, using an internet link (and from Forbes no less) to substantiate your claim, the United States was not founded on Christian principles. Really? I could flood this thread with Christian quotes taken from the founding fathers where God & Jesus Christ specifically where spoken of regularly. And, many times where they took quotes directly from the Bible to make their point. But, that's an argument for another time.

I don't know how a thread about a paint job could have degraded so fast to downplaying the importance of God and bashing personal beliefs, just because they may differ from your own.
I've been a member here for over 10 years and always thought this type of bashing was strictly forbidden, especially when it comes to religion or politics, you managed to get 'em both in record time. I've also had a pretty high respect for you over those years, I guess I was miss guided. I guess the easiest way to attempt to discredit a Christian is to take unsubstantiated jabs at them?
As you can probably tell I'm a Christian too, so feel free to take a jab at me too, won't be the first time that's happened strangely enough.

I very very rarely get involved in this type of discussion anymore & I'll apologize now for my knee-jerk reaction. I must admit my blood pressure rose when I read your history revisionist post, and I may regret (later) letting it get me worked up. I'm on the internet way too much anyway.
Merry CHRISTmas to all.

One thing I really like about this place is typically if you ask for advice or opinions the answers are honest and well thought out, or they just dont answer. Seldom do you just get the nod of approval for posting like so many other forums. I honestly dont find this up setting, 9/11 was upsetting. Just honest asked for opinions...

I think the issue was hit square on the head when the word art was broached.

Art will never be appreciated equally.

The owner needs to be cognizant that he is inviting comment.

Some will love it, some will hate it. There are a lot of differing views on what that day meant, how it was caused. Many unanswered questions, and the governments accounts don't add up.

Personally, as a vet myself, I like it. Anyone whom doesn't, can just sit on it.

Enough memorials? Hogwash. Some just don't want to be reminded of the horror unleashed upon this country. To be reminded of the incident is to be reminded that official accounts don't add up, eyewitness accounts discredited, and the whole thing stinks to high hell.

He had best be prepared to take the good with the bad.

Not being there or attending funerals of those who lost their lives because of the cowardly act just doesn't cut it as a means of denying others of how they want to depict their sense of remembrance and it has nothing to do with morals or christian values.
I wasn't on Iwo Jima in Feb of 1945 but there is a rather large memorial of those who gave their all outside of Arlington and that image is depicted on many vehicles of those in the brotherhood and if I was in to murals, which I'm not, I wouldn't hesitate to have Jay paint that depiction on the hood on my Vette.
I wasn't on Saipan in June of 1944 when my uncle was cut down by a Japanese sniper, but I was at his funeral in 1947.
So by your analogy only those that were present can honor the sacrifice of others, not hardly.

I'm done here.

To every one of you... thanks for the feedback. It will help the owner, and also me in the future.

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

I'm done here.

To every one of you... thanks for the feedback. It will help the owner, and also me in the future.

I'm hoping you just mean this subject and not the forum as a whole. As you can tell, this particular subject is a very emotional thing for me, even after all these years. I've seen plenty of tributes, some good, some bad. When asked for my opinion on them, I always tell it like it is, and from my heart.Whether you choose to agree with me or not is strictly up to you, as is your right.

Again, here is wishing you a very Merry Christmas, and a happy and a healthy new year.


Sincerely,

Bill S.

Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT

I'm done here.

To every one of you... thanks for the feedback. It will help the owner, and also me in the future.

I probably am too, keep your head up high

Well after reading this over agaian, I am 1000%(I mean thousand percent) in favor of this guy having this art work depicted on HIS car which is a part of him-----------I fully appreciate the words ---DON'T FORGET---vs sometimes used --ALWAYS REMEMBER-- as it seems too often these days that folks don't remember anything past the day of taking the test------------


Every time I see a sky line photo of NY I miss seeing the Towers--hell, I miss seeing the Statue of Liberty, the
Empire State Building, Chrysler ? -----approaches up the river to Newark and LGA plus of course the flights into and out of JFK--------Hundreds of times the view of NYC has been a welcome home to me and my crew members plus I always liked pointing out scenes on the PA before they made us sterile below 10,000-------------


The day of the first bombing of the towers I was going to take the train over and visit them but got up and looking out the hotel window saw smoke coming from the one tower----------bummer---------well I could always do it later-----never came----------


I can't go on and on except one thing I will say-------thank that guy for his service, and I'm extremely proud of the fact that he would use an AMERICAN car as his personal tribute to a day in history that many have already forgotten----------


Bummer also is that under todays climate????? that this Dec 7 was the last year of an USS Arizona tribute reunion??????


There is a difference between DON'T FORGET and ALWAYS REMEMBER------------one is for when your kid gets his first tooth and the other means something else----------

Interesting thread. Everyone has posted great thoughts and opinions. I must admit until I read those not in favor of the mural and their reasoning, I would have said it's fine. Afterward I'm not so sure now?
Every year our Veteran's Day parade has a POW hot rod. Every year I see it and feel my guts tighten for those who were POW's/MIA and those who never came back. It's a good reminder, but sad at the same time.
I guess at the parade I'm already in this mindset, that may be different, vs. just going to lunch and seeing something upsetting. Lots of good things said on this post. here is a shot of the POW car and the POW trailer(probably very upsetting to lots of folks..but also a reminder of our Vets and what they've sacraficed for this country.)

his car, his choice, your job. i see nothing wrong with it. maybe some who just forget things as if they never happened need a reminder . the exact reason the pow-mia flag is proudly flown .

jay , i would not blame you at all if you never posted here again but if you dont they win . keep the faith brother .

Bill S, I was partially with you on your response until your second paragraph, which got way too personal with respect to Jay's faith. Moderators on this forum have emphasized the need to "not get personal" in their posts, and I am sincerely disappointed that you did so.

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Bill S, I was partially with you on your response until your second paragraph, which got way too personal with respect to Jay's faith. Moderators on this forum have emphasized the need to "not get personal" in their posts, and I am sincerely disappointed that you did so.

The play "on christian faith" was his card, not mine, whenever I see someone add his/her faith as "the superior to all others" (regardless of what faith that it), I get very defensive. Contrary to popular belief, this country was not built on a "Christian value", in fact the founding fathers distinctly and eloquently placed a separation between church and state, even though they do have "in god we trust", they did not spell out who's god, or what god (and I could care less what race or religion someone is, I like them as the person they are, or I do not. Same reason why I married for love, and not the religion my wife is), just "in God", which can be taken 1,000 different ways.......You can argue the point until we are all blue in the face, but the facts remain.


Back to the subject at hand, if it was not for the plane flying towards the picture of the twin towers (it is poor judgement and taste), I would not have been so critical. But since it's there, and it set the hair on the back of my neck straight up, I was, and I still am, hyper critical of the art piece as a whole. My opinion of it will not change, you all have the right to agree, or disagree with my statements, in part, or as a whole. That my friends is the beauty of being a US citizen.

Bill S.


PS: Even a moderator has his right to an opinion when asked for it..........

Originally Posted by mrmustang

The play "on christian faith" was his card, not mine, whenever I see someone add his/her faith as "the superior to all others" (regardless of what faith that it), I get very defensive. Contrary to popular belief, this country was not built on a "Christian value", in fact the founding fathers distinctly and eloquently placed a separation between church and state, even though they do have "in god we trust".....


Bill S.


PS: Even a moderator has his right to an opinion when asked for it..........

Bill, you need to go back and study your American History. We hear too often the term "separation of church and state", but those words are not found in any of the documents forming our basic tenets of the Republic. What the First Amendment says is this :

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

If you study history, and specifically pay attention to Thomas Jefferson, the concern was keeping the state out of church, not vice versa. Having just declared independence from England, where the Anglican Church was the State Church, Jefferson was determined that this situation not be repeated, and had already addressed it in the forming papers of Virginia. Take time to read some of the basic history from the 1770's and you'll find a strong overtone of religion in the direction of our founding fathers when they wrote the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence, and that's a fact that cannot be refuted if one takes time to examine the history.

I expect that now you'll choose to close the thread, even though you are the one who drug religion into the discussion (read Post 11 carefully, especially the "but...") and brought us down this path.