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While the rest of you are suffering from global warming, thus the need for the proposed Carbon Cap and Trade scheme working it's way out of Congress right now, here's what it looks like in the People's Republic of Seattle today. Those unfamiliar with our weather up here should know that what little snow we get in a typical winter usually falls in Dec and Jan, rarely in Feb. Mid March? .....not so much!:rolleyes:
I dont believe any of this "global warming propaganda". I've read that the eruption of Mt Krakatoa in the 1800s put more carbon emissions into the atmosphere than the entire industrial age of man. Here's a good article on it:
MYTH: The actions of mankind are causing global warming.
REALITY: According to Professor William M. Gray, Colorado State University: "This small warming is likely a result of the natural alterations in global ocean currents which are driven by ocean salinity variations. Ocean circulation variations are as yet little understood. Human kind has little or nothing to do with the recent temperature changes. We are not that influential." Mr. Gray, who has worked in the field for 50 years, has labeled global warming "one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on the American people."
Additionally, Dr. Tim Patterson, paleoclimatologist and Professor of Geology at Carleton University in Canada states, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this geologic time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years. On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"
Professor Emeritus Jan Veizer, University of Ottawa, writes: "The alternative model argues for celestial phenomena as the principal climate driver ... Models and empirical observations are both indispensable tools of science, yet when discrepancies arise, observations should carry greater weight than theory. If so, the multitude of empirical observations favours celestial phenomena as the most important driver of terrestrial climate on most time scales."
here`s your global warming ;)
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...g?t=1236623319
Yeah Bob, and now many of those idiots are calling it 'Climate Chaos'. :LOL:
Kitz
Whew! When I read your thread title, Uncle Bob, I thought that you had lost your marbles and believed the "Pelosi" that the government was spewing out.
My belief: 1. Yes the climate is warming 2. Yes it has warmed before and will again 3. Looking at a sample of temperatures taken over a small range can be skewed to any answer that is needed. 4. Global warming is not a "climate issue"; instead, it is a "power issue" as in how can government claim more power over the population and economy.
The common man should be outraged over what is being done and what the affect will be on their lives. Of course, look at what the common man has done so far...rolled over and complied.
I knew I liked you guys. And BTW, Bob, did you know the number one contributer to "global warming" in the Pacific Northwest? You guessed it - Mount St Helens. Go figure. Saint Helens contributed more in one minute than man will contribute in a lifetime!
The earth has long endured cyclic patterns. yes, things change - but to think man can influence the big picture is well, a bit egotistical..
My 2 cents,
Glenn
I understand the polar caps are melting on Mars too. Coincidence? I suppose somehow that is our fault too? :confused:
Pat
Must be that overcarburated small block in the Mars rover.:LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Cool
Gravitational pull of the sun, we'll all be crispy in a 1000 years or so.
besides, aren't you supposed to live fast, die young leave a beautiful corpse??
WE ARE ALL ENVIRONMENALISTS!!! Yes, the members of the hot rod community are true GREENIES.....we are recycling! If it were not for us, those old, rusty cars would require the planet to dig more iron ore, use more oil for plastics for interiors, melt more bauxite for aluminum, etc. WE ARE HELPING! We should get huge carbon credits that we can sell to the Dems so we can buy more parts!! Call your representative today! Demand your entitlement credits.
mike in tucson
Here's my message to those wackos. LFE
global warming my butt it was -27 c or 7 below zero this morning and its supposed of get colder here tonight !!. Ive had enough of winter and up here that is a long time.
It teased us about 3 weeks ago melted most of out snow right here and i was able to move the bucket outside to clean out the shop but its gone back again to this deepfreeze. I want summer or at least something near it.
I like your way of thinking!More parts! more parts! We must be getting all that global warming down here in fla Bob, cause its been hot!!Quote:
Originally Posted by robot
I've been in Florida for the past 5 days and it has been great, great, great. And I'm further south than Hotroddaddy.:D
I will soon regret going home to the cold, cold, cold north where all evidence of global warming has yet to appear. I believe in global warming, about every 10,000 years it happens. In the off years, it's global freezing.:LOL:
Personally, I think it is a bit arrogant and egotistic to believe that man has NO effect on global warming. But to say that we are a primary cause, or even that we can change it, is beyond arrogant or egotistic. Only 40 years ago, Popular Science covered with the story that we were entering a global ice age, and needed to make CO2 and lots of it!!!
If anybody has heard of John Coleman from Chicago, weather man from 70’s and 80’s ABC he went on to Good morning America for a while. He has a lot to say why Global warming is a bunch of bull. He said recently in an interview, which I only caught the tail end of, that out of about 20 thousand Scientist 500 or less are convince there is global warming. I’ve heard people saying for years that it is a natural thing that occurs with nature every so often. I’ll have to see if I can do some research on his theory. Look what happened to recycling, that was going to help but only cause a big mess. Big ideas end up costing the taxpayers lots of money, and make a few people rich. Global warming has opened up a lot of opportunities for some, and made it very difficult for a lot of us.
Richard
Saturday and Sunday here in the normally frozen tundra of way Upstate NY it was in the mid fifties - and yesterday we had 2-3 inches of snow. February was several degrees lower then average and it's supposed to be between the mid 20's to the mid 30's through all of next week. It snowed a week after Thanksgiving and this past Saturday was the first that I saw of the ground since - and no January thaw. Global warming - my fanny!!!:)
Apparently we're so odious that we're also affecting the climate on Jupiter: http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/200903...potisshrinkingQuote:
Originally Posted by ford2custom
Richard, what's been little reported is the pending costs of the Cap and Trade scheme. Anybody who uses energy or buys products that have energy use as part of bringing that product to market (in other words everybody and everything, not just the so called rich) is going to be slapped with significant increases in cost. Estimates run as high as 40% increases for home heating, lighting (including powering the computer you're looking at right now), and auto fuel to every user. When your budget has to be adjusted for that you're going to have to give up other things you spend on. Who's going to lose their job when you cut back on whatever you choose? What will others cut back on that you provide? All in the name of climate change that is rightfully disputed? And the masses of sheeple in this country just blythely watch it all unfold without protest. When the price of gasoline goes up because of this we'll hear the ignorant blame the "greedy" oil companies. We'll hear the laments of various groups who claim to care about the "poor", without any examination of what causes this huge displacement. The pols will try to buy off these groups by blaming "greedy corporations" who provide these necessities of life while lining their own pockets with money, and more importantly to themselves, power. And most, many included in our hobby, just stand by siliently as is all goes down. Sigh!!!!!!
I cannot believe that billions of people can pump out daily emissions with no effect on the environment. That would seem illogical.
They are reporting that livestock emissions add to it. Hello! Who is breeding the millions of animals?
I also read that the warming would cause temperature and weather extremes...higher highs, like our recent record temperatures....and lower lows. (Hello! That's you guys complaining about the cold).
There is much talk about major volcanic erruptions, and such, in the past. As I recall there were accompanying climate changes that wiped out species. They may have been natural occurences, but they were also catastophic for many life forms!
My position would be to assume it has merit, and act on that assumption. Better safe than sorry.
Jay, whether it's your intent or not, you've rolled out the same false choice that is often used. In essense you're projecting on us the "do nothing to keep the environment clean" position. Of course that's bogus, but it is a current theme in many national "arguments". The others can speak for themselves, but where I stand is we should do as much as we can to keep our environment as clean as possible, but realize there's no way to have humans exist without some level of impact. The real protest here is what's real and what's conjured up by those who would try to capitalize by empowering themselves. CO2 is less than .039% of our atmosphere, water vapor is somewhere around 20%. Which is the greater greenhouse gas? I'm all for keeping trash out of water systems, trash off the road sides, sewage out of aquafers. Those are legitimate and proven perils. Excessive CO2 on the other hand is not proven...........it's a scam. However it is a significant exhaust product of human beings who breathe (everyone in other words). What better way to enslave those people than by controlling what is a biological necessity?
I doubt that this debate will end in our lifetimes. It will take longer than that to find out which position was closer to the truth.
My own theory is that mankind will eventually bring about it's own demise. We have honorable intent as a group, but cannot overcome our individual selfishness. Somehow I think that will translate to the inability to act as a group....even for our overall good as individuals.
As with most issues these days, the extreme ends of the debate get all the attention, when the best solution to the problem is probably a middle of the road, common sense approach.... Maybe if we all just made a more conscious effort to be better stewards of the land and quit trying to change everything to fit our needs.... When people's houses slide into the ocean, get burnt down by forest fires, and all the other malady's, maybe many of them are caused because we're messing with things in nature we can't control and building houses where there shouldn't be houses. Trees are the natural air cleaners, go plant a few, doesn't cost much. Walk more, live closer to your job, car pool, use public transportation....they all would help, and even save you a buck or two. Has common sense and a reasonable approach to solving problems completely gone????? The radicals on either extreme side of an issue are the minority...yet most of the time it's the only voice we hear.....
Well said Dave.
For those of you who weren't around in the '50's, the big thing then was the coming of the next Ice Age.
Some in the scientific community proclaimed that in a very short period of time that ice would spread almost to the Ohio river. Most people with enough common sense to come in out of the rain dismissed this theory as pure folly and it lived a short life. Unfortunately this time around we have a so called distinguished Pied Piper and a lot of people that don't have enough common sense to come in out of the rain.
I don't think it's a lot of people....More of a very vocal minority that only gains credibility because of media hype.... There is no such thing as fair and unbiased reporting of the news anymore, everything on the air is from one extreme or the other and seems to thrive on an "us against them" mentality.....Quote:
Originally Posted by NTFDAY
You must watch not Fox. Their people are mostly moderate to conservative but it sure beats the heck out the major networks who are in the liberal tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Lots of the stuff on Fox is way out Conservative stuff....and still treat Limbaugh like some kind of hero--instead of just another doper.....and he hopes ALL the presidents programs fail??? What the heck will that accomplish???? Then the Fox Loudmouth Hannity gets off on one of his rants and turns more people off to conservative issues then he could ever hope to promote....
I'll stand by my statement that there is seldom any fair and unbiased reporting on any network......Oh well, maybe if there was a network that actually did news reporting in an unbiased manner few would watch or listen.... Maybe they like to be told what to think, or just prefer taking an extreme and join in the worthless "blame game" that never has or never will accomplish anything?????
Though BBC is very liberal biased on a lot of subjects - and me being a card carrying conservative:eek:, they do tend to spend a bit more time on real news rather then totally political crap. They tend to subscribe to the adage that if it "bleeds it leads" and show bodies lying in the street in countries seldom heard from until the red stuff flows.
I can stand Rush .... for about 10 minutes. Hannity - he often has good subject matter and good guests, but how about a more rational discussion. He's good for ..... maybe 15 minutes. Did you ever try listening to Michael Savage? Now that's a piece of work!! I wont give his diatribe more then the time it takes to push the button to change the station:LOL::LOL:.
Hmmmm, being a previous "doper" devalues a private citizen from expressing his opinion? I seem to recall that President Obama is also a self professed "doper". Limbaugh can't force anyone to do anything, but the President can...............I'd say that gives many of us the right to challenge his proposals/programs, especially when they are in direct contradiction of our Constitution and our operating as a free market society.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Here's a surprising (to me anyway) apparent supporter of the rights of those in opposition to Obamunism;
Or could it be there's a double standard.......................:3dSMILE:
You mean like stating on the campaign trail that "Earmarks" will not be allowed in my administration and then signing a spending bill after elected that contains over 8000 of them? Is that lying or just being a hypocrite? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
Heck yeah, let's not discriminate against dopers!!!! Doesn't matter if you fessed up to prior use a decade ago, or just got busted recently....
Isn't money spent on anything technically an earmark???? Oh well, the free enterprise system, the economy, and health care are all in great shape.... Let's just keep things going the way they have been for the last 3 decades..... It'll fix itself, right???
I don't think the Obama administration, or any other individual or group has the answer......what I do know is we sure as heck better do something different besides blaming those in another party, or hoping that everything the current party in power tries is a failure.....
Doubt seriously anything will get fixed, just more fighting, arguing, and finger pointing until the entire country collapses.... The politicians broke it, why in the heck would they want to fix it??? Wouldn't that be a lot like admitting that they were wrong before???? Rather then a representative government, IMO what we have now is the best politicians money can buy!!!!!!!
Global warming? Today it was the coldest here than it has ever been since they have been recording temps 125 years ago it was -45 c over 40 below :eek:with the wind chill this morning. I like were i live ,but man give me a break ,im getting cabin fever.
I realise we are affecting our envirorment with co2 emissions but i gots to burn something to keep warm!:LOL:
Found this on the internet, written by an anonymous person:
I am tired of politicians, scientists, and socialists who call me a global warming denier, because I know the Medieval Warm Period really existed, and that the temperatures were 1-2 degrees warmer than now, for a 450 year period between 900 and 1350, and the Greenland ice caps did not melt. I also know that the Roman Climate Optimum existed 2500 years ago, that it also lasted several hundred years, was 2-3 degrees warmer than the present, and the Greenland ice caps did not melt then either.
I am very tired of our politicians corrupting our scientists and destroying public faith in both science and our government, by only providing funding to those people who will do research to support a pre-determined outcome.
I am tired of major news outlets hyping every story about a slightly warmer-than-normal day or week, but ignoring the real climate science, and any data that refutes their new religion of global warming, such as - the climate has actually been cooling for the past decade.
I am tired of politicians, activists, and the main stream media putting all their faith in the IPCC, a political, self-serving body at the UN, where their report summary is written before the science is done, by political staff, and cannot be changed by the 250 or so actual scientists on the panel, yet at the same time, ignore the over 32,000 scientists and Nobel Prize winners who have signed the Oregon Initiative, discounting any man-made effect on global climate as minor.
I am tired of being told I must lower my standard of living to fight global warming, which no one is allowed to debate.
I am tired of the hysterical lies spouted by those people who want to control every aspect of our lives and tax our vital energy sources to achieve their utopia. They shout. "This is the warmest _____ (insert day, week, month, year, take your pick) ever!" Or "The CO2 levels have never been this high before!"
I am tired of politicians and environmental activists lying about how man-made CO2 is causing global warming, so they can control where we set our home thermostats, what light bulbs we are allowed to use, what kind of a car we can drive, and how many squares of toilet paper we can use at a sitting, while they jet around the world and live in 20 room mansions, using more energy in a month than most families use in 10 years
Amen, brother and I stand by what I posted in post 25 of this thread.
Sadly the "global warming" crowd has the bigger megaphone, and the more active propaganda machine. Here's further evidence against their "argument"; http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm but then, "The debate is over" isn't it?
I've been in sales most of my adult life. Those of you that have done likewise know that most sales people are honest folk providing a service. We also know that there are some disreputable types who employ deceptive tactics. Two of the most frequently used are the "buy it now before it's too late" close, and the what I like to call the "hey!!! look at this shiny thing over here" distraction. This "human caused climate change" employs both tactics. First it's the panic of "oh, we're destroying the earth and must act now", then when you start to point out the holes in their "argument" they divert attention elsewhere. This is a common tactic of those in politics that are trying to "sell" ideas that enhance their power. This past week we had a blatant example of their game yet the majority of people have been suckered in. Congress passes a law, the President signs it into affect, that LEGALLY authorizes bonus payments to AIG employees. Since it's the law the company pays the bonuses. Then the stuff hits the fan. What happens? The scumbag politicians, with the help of their media lapdogs dump the blame on the employees who received the bonuses. The Senator who put the article in the law draft first lies about his role in sponsoring it (yes, he was the largest political campaign donation recipient from AIG employees.....no conflict of interest there eh?). Then when called on it the next day issues a statement that he's not sure how it got in there, then the next day has to admit his roll but still tries to dump it off on someone else. Meanwhile, the President, who signed the law, and the rest of the Congress people who voted for it all claim outrage that the bonuses were paid!l So which is it? Are they liars or incompetent? Almost all of them are attornys so obviously they should understand what a contract is......................so I'd bet on the liar part. Then, they make a big show about ex post facto contract change and an unconstitutional penalizing tax to claw the money back, all the while inciting public mob anger over the $165 million of bonus money. That amount eqauls a mere 1/10 of 1 percent of the money "loaned" to AIG..........1/10 of 1 percent!!!!!! And for this these employees are subjected to death threats, ACORN sponsored bus loads of threatening mobs, and more! And what happens to the politicians who are really responsible for this mess? NADA! Where's the outrage over the $80 BILLION of the AIG loan money that was laundered to other financial institutions, mostly in Europe? Not a peep. Where's the priority of anger? Deflected somewhere else, away from the crooks in congress. So, is it any wonder that those same fools are so easily distracted into believing the human caused climate change story? It's all about controlling the populace. Let's just say there were some validity to the "excess" CO2 story. It's a well know fact that CO2 is plant food, essential for the production of oxygen for our environment. If there were a real problem to solve, and individual freedom and respect of personal property rights were important, should there be a "remediation" plan that included a significant planting of trees to offset the so called "carbon footprint" of each individual? Why are the only solutions offered are to limit personal freedoms, and confiscation of personal property, primarily money, under a convoluted scheme of "cap and trade". Probably the most important shorthand measure of the validity of this cap and trade scheme is that it was originally proposed by those wonderful folks at ENRON. But again, the sheeple just won't get it!
Global warming my butt!!!! For the next 7 days, the highest predicted temp is 47!!!!! C'mon, I could use about another 20 degrees of that global warmer upper!!!!! Today barely hit 30 degrees, "pleasant" other then the 30 mph wind gust out of the north......
Dave, your low temperatures are just another bit of proof of global warming....at least that's what the advocates say!
Oh gee whiz, now I understand!! It's all clear as mud!!!!!**)**)**):LOL::LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by robot
If global warming is a joke than the majority of the entire scientific community, world wide, who have gone to school to study science are all wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter
I'm tired of the reteric about democrats and republicans. People we are screwing up our planet. If you can't accept this than don't. Don't try to convince me global warming doesn't exist or that we aren't creating real problems with our use of this planet. I've got two science degrees, CO2 build up from industrialization is a problem. I'm sure most of you think Al Gore invented global warming as a political platform to run on. Wrong again! These ideas and theories have been out there for a much longer time period than he has ever even been concieved. We will continue to have extreme weather fluxes both cold and hot. And yes there have been historical patterns of ice ages prior to our own existance as a natural pattern on this planet. Global warming works much the same way.
What really bothers me with all of these discussions is that everyone blames someone else. Nobody wants to look at their own lifestyle and accept some blame for negative climatic changes on a global level for the way we choose to utilize this planets resources.
We could argue science. We could argue religion. In the end, stall tactics and bitching won't change the effects of extreme industrialization to future generations to come! Every habitat has a carrying capacity. The planet is no different. We have created so many extreme practices in developing the world that the world is fighting back. Think not? Live on the west coast? Gone salmon fishing lately? Live in a big city? Have trouble breathing on hot days? Arguments about this, are like quoting statistics, depending on who you want to sway, you just slant your survey. No single person on this forum has the knowledge base to prove to me that if we don't change our lifestyle practices that our future generations are going to suffer for our aragance.:CRY:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stovens
Now that's the most common sense approach I've heard on any of these issues....Thanks for the enlightenment.
Like you, I become dismayed when everything has to become an Us vs. Them thing with the result being the truth gets hidden and nothing happens but a bunch of arguments... Just like so many other issues--we're supposed to take a side and follow blindly whatever course of action that side percieves as correct. Unfortunately the only course of action that either side ever seems to take is to bad mouth and degrade the other side, and the real issue becomes a non-issue....
Looks to me like just one more place where people should decide for themselves, do what they can about the issue, and let the politicians argue and do absolutely nothing else.... Maybe it's time we all stood up for our own beliefs and do something that is "right" for us??????