Thread: Oppose Federal Vehicle Scrappage Program

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Originally Posted by drec

This bill (S 3737) is just (add your own modifier) incredible. So if you have a car that you couldn't sell for $500 on Craigslist, but it will run and drive, our government will give you $10,000 for it toward a new car.

GREAT!

I feel so much better knowing that these idiots are taking care of us.

Here is the bill:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.3737:

Sounds great to me!!!!!! Looks like my old '93 Escort wagon could be worth big bucks!!!! I'm gonna just give 'em the Escort and take the $10k in cash!!!!! Don't need another car anyhow!!!!! 'Bout time I got me some of that free govment bail-me-out $$$$$$$$!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Yeah, go pick one out!!!! Just tell them you're from Illinois and you know the Governor!!!!!

I don't wanna' open that can O' worms. I'll just pay for the truck.

Originally Posted by pro70z28

I don't wanna' open that can O' worms. I'll just pay for the truck.

Oops, yeah, I forgot.... Might not want to wind up on that "known associates" list, huh?????

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Oops, yeah, I forgot.... Might not want to wind up on that "known associates" list, huh?????

Nope, I see a lot O' people scramblin' to stay off that list. Something about a sinking ship...

OK I have read the proposal and while I dont like it, It is not a strait cash for clunker program. There are some requirements and conditions and not everyone qualifies for participation. The premis is to help baill out the auto industry but forces them to sell cars instead of just recieving a handout. So basically you get a $10,000 voucher to buy a new car with if you scrap and older one you are currently driving.

For the record I am not in support of bailout programs but if it gets passed and I qualify I may take advantage of it and get a new minivan. If I have to pay for the program with my tax dollars I may as well get something out of it ..... we'll see

It's probably another slight of hand trick, like the gun contol talk. It gets everyone buzzing and hopping around while they are pulling tacking something they want rid of to the bill.
It would be interesting to see the whole package, House bills rarely travel alone.

now we need i huge infusion of cash to the tv converter program its running out of money they spent almost 900 million on media advertising to educate the people with 40 year old tvs they need a converter coulda given everybody with a tube type tv a voucher to go to wally world and trade it in on a new tv for probably 50k but the media wouldn't have all that cash to donate to you guessed it the politicians I think everybody in the world is crazy except me and you and sometimes Iam not too sure about you L.O.L. ted

Originally Posted by ted dehaan

I think everybody in the world is crazy except me and you and sometimes Iam not too sure about you L.O.L. ted

Don't worry about it Ted...... Sanity is terribly overrated anyway!!!!

In regaurds to the comment about me participating in this - don't worry it's not going to happen !!

Here is the text of the proposed bill. It is very much a part of the stimus package being proposed. It is not just about removing old cars from the road but creating an artificial market funded by the tax payers for the benifit of companies producing vehicles in the USA. The conditions are very specific about who and what is eligible. At it's core this is about providing revinue to the automaker's with tax dollars. A $10,000 credit is a HUGE amount of tax money and it can only go to a product produced in the US. They are in effect expanding the potential customer base by offering this large sum of incentive money to those who would not normally be in a position to purchase a new vehicle (look at the income requirements). Giving someone $2000 to take their $500 beater off the road is one thing, giving someone $10,000 to purchase a brand new car from a company that is asking for help is another, ... read carefully (3)(A)(l) this not about getting older cars off the road this is a bailout to protect the manufactures from failure.
Reguardless of whether or not you support bailout programs , can you imagine how much this is going to cost ?

S 3737 IS

To require the Secretary of the Treasury to carry out a program to enable certain individuals to trade certain old automobiles for certain new automobiles, and for other purposes.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

December 11 (legislative day, December 10), 2008
Mr. HARKIN (for himself and Mr. DURBIN) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To require the Secretary of the Treasury to carry out a program to enable certain individuals to trade certain old automobiles for certain new automobiles, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Sell Fuel Efficient Cars Act of 2008'.

SEC. 2. PASSENGER AUTOMOBILE TRADE-IN PROGRAM.

(a) Definitions- In this section:

(1) AUTOMOBILE , FUEL, MANUFACTURER, PASSENGER AUTOMOBILE - The terms `automobile' , `fuel', `manufacturer', and `passenger automobile' have the meaning given such terms in section 32901 of title 49, United States Code.

(2) ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL- The term `eligible individual' means an individual--

(A) who does not have more than 3 passenger automobiles registered under his or her name;

(B) who filed a return of Federal income tax for a taxable year beginning in 2007, and, if married for such taxable year (as determined under section 7703 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986), filed a joint return;

(C) who is not an individual with respect to whom a deduction under section 151 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is allowable to another taxpayer for a taxable year beginning in the calendar year in which the individual's taxable year begins;

(D) whose adjusted gross income reported in such return was not more than $25,000 ($40,000 in the case of a joint tax return or a return filed by a head of household (as defined in section 2(b) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986));

(E) who has not acquired an automobile under the Program; and

(F) who did not file such return jointly with another individual who has acquired an automobile under the Program.

(3) ELIGIBLE NEW AUTOMOBILE -

(A) IN GENERAL- The term `eligible new automobile' , with respect to a trade of an eligible old automobile by an eligible individual under the Program, means a passenger automobile that--

(i) has never been registered in any jurisdiction;

(ii) was manufactured by an automobile manufacturer that has--

(I) operations in the United States, the failure of which would have a systemic adverse effect on the overall economy of the United States or a significant loss of United States jobs, as determined by the Secretary; and

(II) operated a manufacturing facility that produced automobiles or automobile components in the United States throughout the 20-year period ending on the date of the enactment of this Act;

(iii) was assembled in the United States; and

(iv) has a fuel economy that--

(I) is not less than 25 miles per gallon, as determined by the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency using the 5-cycle fuel economy measurement methodology of such Agency; and

(II) has a fuel economy that is more than 4.9 miles per gallon greater than the fuel economy of such eligible old automobile , as determined by the Administrator using the 2-cycle fuel economy measurement methodology of such Agency for both automobiles.

(B) FUEL ECONOMY TESTING METHODOLOGIES- If a passenger automobile described in subclause (I) or (II) of subparagraph (A)(iv) has not been measured using the respective methodologies described such subclauses, the Administrator may estimate what such measurement would be if the Administrator were to use the respective methodology for purposes of determining the fuel economy under such subclauses.

(4) ELIGIBLE OLD AUTOMOBILE - The term `eligible old automobile' , with respect to a trade for an eligible new automobile by an eligible individual under the Program, means a passenger automobile that--

(A) is operable;

(B) was first registered in any jurisdiction by any person not less than 10 years before the date on which such trade is initiated;

(C) is registered under such eligible individual's name on the date on which such trade is initiated; and

(D) was registered under such eligible individual's name before December 1, 2008.

(5) FUEL ECONOMY- The term `fuel economy' means the average number of miles traveled by an automobile for each gallon of gasoline (or equivalent amount of other fuel) used, as determined by the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency.

(6) PROGRAM- The term `Program' means the Passenger Automobile Trade-In Program established under subsection (b).

(7) SECRETARY- The term `Secretary' means the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Secretary's designee.

(b) Program Established- The Secretary shall establish the Passenger Automobile Trade-In Program to provide eligible individuals with subsidies to purchase eligible new automobiles in exchange for eligible old automobiles.

(c) Duration of Program- The Program shall commence on the date on which the Secretary prescribes regulations under subsection (g) and shall terminate on December 31, 2009.

(d) Trades-

(1) IN GENERAL- Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, if an eligible individual and a seller of an eligible new automobile initiate a trade as described in subsection (e) for such new automobile with an eligible old automobile of the eligible individual, the Secretary shall provide to the seller of such new automobile $10,000.

(2) LIMITATION ON PURCHASE PRICE OF ELIGIBLE NEW AUTOMOBILES- The Secretary may not make any payment under this subsection for a trade for an eligible new automobile under the Program if the purchase price of such new automobile exceeds the manufacturer's suggested retail price for such new automobile .

(3) COMPENSATION FOR DELAYED PAYMENTS- In the case that a payment under this subsection to a seller for a trade under the Program is delayed, the Secretary shall provide to such seller the amount otherwise determined under this subsection plus interest at the overpayment rate established under section 6621 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.

(e) Initiation of Trade- An eligible individual and the seller of an eligible new automobile initiate a trade under the Program for such eligible new automobile with an eligible old automobile of such individual if--

(1) the eligible individual, or the eligible individual's designee, drives such old automobile to the location of such seller;

(2) the eligible individual provides to the seller--

(A) such old automobile ; and

(B) an amount (if any) equal to the difference between--

(i) the purchase price of such new automobile ; and

(ii) the amount the Secretary is required to provide to the seller under subsection (d); and

(3) the eligible individual and the seller notify the Secretary of such trade at such time and in such manner as the Secretary considers appropriate.

(f) Disposal of Eligible Old Automobiles-

(1) IN GENERAL- A seller who receives an eligible old automobile in exchange for an eligible new automobile under the Program shall deliver such old automobile to an appropriate location for proper destruction and disposal as determined by the Secretary.

(2) COMPENSATION- The Secretary shall compensate a seller described in paragraph (1) for costs incurred by such seller under such paragraph in such amounts or at such rates as the Secretary considers appropriate.

(g) Regulations-

(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 30 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall prescribe rules to carry out the Program.

(2) EXPEDITED PROCEDURES FOR RULEMAKING- The provisions of chapter 5 of title 5, United States Code, shall not apply to regulations prescribed under paragraph (1).

(h) Direct Spending Authority-

(1) IN GENERAL- There is authorized to be appropriated and is appropriated to the Secretary such sums as may be necessary to carry out the Program.

(2) EMERGENCY DESIGNATION- Amounts appropriated pursuant to paragraph (1) are designated as an emergency requirement and necessary to meet emergency needs pursuant to section 204(a) of S. Con. Res. 21 (110th Congress) and section 301(b)(2) of S. Con. Res. 70 (110th Congress), the concurrent resolutions on the budget for fiscal years 2008 and 2009.

What a laugher of a bill!!!!!

Another fine example of your government at work!!!!! Hmmm. do ya suppose an '09 Mustang GT would meet the fuel mileage requirement????? I guess for $10K discount, plus the rebates or whatever that Ford will give away I could just by a V-6 Mustang and swap in the 5.4, huh????

Who in the heck do these idiots in DC think is going to pay all these flippin' bills, anyway?????

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

What a laugher of a bill!!!!!

Another fine example of your government at work!!!!! Hmmm. do ya suppose an '09 Mustang GT would meet the fuel mileage requirement????? I guess for $10K discount, plus the rebates or whatever that Ford will give away I could just by a V-6 Mustang and swap in the 5.4, huh????

Who in the heck do these idiots in DC think is going to pay all these flippin' bills, anyway?????

Maybe we should all buy 250.00 buck beaters, swap them for 10k vouchers and put the cash down on one of those 09 cameros that are billed to get 26-27mpg on the highway!

Reading through this deal I'm not eligible but I'd say if they are going to give the automakers billions now and who knows how much more in the months to come, I would rather see this program as opposed to just throwing unaccounted for money at the big 3 the way they did the financial institutions. I don't like any of this government socialism junk, but if it has to be done, at least this program will keep auto maker employees and supporting businesses working and will give them back some market share.
The big question is, will the big 3 use this golden opportunity to prove they can build a high quality, competitively priced product, so they can become solvent in the future? (That includes creating a new business model that makes sense, this one is a tall order I know).
As with all these bailouts, if they work we all will benefit directly or indirectly. If it fails we will all be in deep doo doo.

If they really wanted stimulus, they would have just given out to each taxpayer their share, then enough people would have trotted out and bought new cars to save the whole auto industry, killed 2 birds with one stone.

We need to create the Detroit Valley Authority. Get unemployed and welfare recipients to make Gm cars, in exchange for a living wage, Also create US Transit Authority and train the rest of the unemployed to maintain our roadways, Finally Health Care and Education Groups to eliminate the uninsured and uneducated, when we are done, we can make them co-oped, and start all over again!

Originally Posted by stovens

We need to create the Detroit Valley Authority. Get unemployed and welfare recipients to make Gm cars, in exchange for a living wage, Also create US Transit Authority and train the rest of the unemployed to maintain our roadways, Finally Health Care and Education Groups to eliminate the uninsured and uneducated, when we are done, we can make them co-oped, and start all over again!

Well, you know that just makes way too much sense to ever get considered.