Thread: 2nd Amendment Affirmed

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Originally Posted by Ken Thurm

I'm so happy there seems to be some common sense left. I wish the vote would of been 9-0, instead of 5-4. I personally think if everyone had a gun we all would be much safer and if you are over 60 (I'm 61) you should be authorized to carry full automatic weapons, our eye sight isn't as good as it used to be!!
Ken
By the way Barb, sounds like you have the perfect marriage!

Ken I whole heartedly agree. Taking guns away from people who use them for home or personal protection is crazy. In highschool one of my class mates and his girlfriend were shot and killed by a psycho in a national park. Now days it's legal to take guns camping with you for protection. Let's face it, the creeps who are going to try and kill people, will always find ways either thru illegal gun sales, or just become more creative, like 9-11-2001. I like to even the playing field a little. I also taught my wife how to use the pump shot gun, when we were married, and feel safer at night, while I'm at work that she knows how to use it, and that Teva the new dog, is very house protective!

I also thought that people who are into engineering and mechanics, also generaly appreciate the craftmanship of guns. I too, colect ww2 rifles, and love the tooling. Barb I also like western rifles, and have inherited my Uncles pump action 1909 22 rifle! (has a western look to it, but not lever action!)

my hubby is looking for a pump browning. like the one in bullitt. so if you ever come across one let me know.

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

So how would things have been different if the homeowner had a gun??? A big shootout---probably the same outcome.....

So this incident means everyone should carry a concealed weapon, and have a loaded weapon in bed with them???

If the entire country gets that bad---I'm leaving.....

All I am saying is that the two thugs (who raped and murdered his wife and daughters) were only armed with a bat. If he had a gun, things might have been different.

Do guns really cause crime???
Finally scientific proof to the contrary -

http://montego.roughwheelers.com/gun_cam.html

Like I said, I choose to avoid the places and situations where carrying a gun would be necessary.... But at the same time I like my guns.... If you choose to carry a gun and live in or visit these high crime or otherwise less then safe areas, don't be surprised at the results... One of the big problems is most good people think they can just pull a gun out and the confrontation ends....sorry to say that's not how it works.... Pull a gun on the wrong person in the wrong situation and if you hesitate, your dead.... And some of these "cannons" disguised as handguns that people carry....make sure there is nobody within range when you shoot, some of these loads will go through a person, through a wall or two, and kill the person next door. IMO the best gun for self protection in the home, is a sawed off double barrell shotgun.. Should there be an intruder in the middle of the night and the adrenalin pump kicks in all you have to do is be close and the walls will stop any stry rounds.... Using a 9mm, 44 mag or other type of handgun in the home is not a good plan, maybe one round misses and it goes through a wall and kills somebody else????

I just flat don't go places that I would only feel safe if I were carrying a gun...... why in the world would I want to go there in the first place....that's nuts!!!!! Carrying a concealed weapon in public and having one at home to protect yourself and your family is not the same thing....Don't pretend it is... I'll just say this, are you carrying a gun to avoid trouble, or do you feel safe looking for trouble when you're carrying a gun????

I would imagine a lot of the "I'd kill them if,,,," talk is just a bit of macho coming out, or at least I hope it is.... killing someone for whatever reason is not as great as it's cracked up to be.... Sure you want to live with that memory??? Guns will create as many problems as they will solve... In the wrong hands, used for the wrong reasons, or used in anger it creates problems for all of us gun owners who keep our guns at home..... Think about it..... Was the Supreme Court ruling really a victory, or is this going to make a lot of people with less then the best in the common sense and judgement department going to read into it that vigilante justice is ok???? A few bad shootings on the part of well intentioned individuals is going to threaten gun ownership for all of us.... (I know, they'll have to take it out of your cold, dead hand.... )

Originally Posted by T42

No, it is a RIGHT....not a privilege....thats the whole point of this post....

To Quote Dave Severson in an earlier post...... "It's a right guaranteed to us by the Constitution and just re-affirmed by the Supreme Court..."

So please understand that this was a very important decision to all of us who demand the RIGHT to self defence.

Linguistics, many arguments ensue with both people saying the same thing. The right to defend yourself is NOT the same thing as the privilege to carry a concealed weapon imo. I personally still view it as a privilege and would treat it as such, labels aside.

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

IMO the best gun for self protection in the home, is a sawed off double barrell shotgun.

I would disagree here.....Shotgun, yes....sawed off, no use one and you end up in jail. Shorter than 18" is a felony, I'd use an 18.5" factory barrel. A double barrel, no way, a pump is the way to go. Everybody knows what one sounds like, and no intruder wants to be on the wrong end of one

sawed off, no use one and you end up in jail. Shorter than 18" is a felony, I'd use an 18.5" factory barrel.

I pretty sure Dave meant (sawed off) to a legal length -

Can't you saw it off yourself to 18.5 inches?

Definately a pistol grip without a shoulder stock is illegal.
Its then classified as a pistol with bore greater than .5 inches.

Well - except for a .410 which is OK.

Several years ago, after the Florida police caught a pair of perps who killed a tourist in a robbery in Florida, the police asked why they had picked tourist to rob. The response they got was that they (the perps) knew tourist didn't carry guns, but since Florida had a concealed carry law, they had no idea if a Florida resident would or would not be carrying. So robbing tourist was considered safer than robbing a resident.

Partially as a result of this and other incidences, in 2005 Florida became a "stand your ground" state allowing residents and non residents to use deadly force, if necessary, in self-defense and self-protection.

In nearly all states, where the state has carrying laws, concealed or open, the crime statistics for many crimes have dropped. Despite what the gun grabbers might think or say, neither crimes involving guns nor deaths by guns, went up following the passage of those laws.

Oh, did I mention that me and my guns will be retiring to Florida?? Ft. Myers is looking good.

Originally Posted by ceh383

I would disagree here.....Shotgun, yes....sawed off, no use one and you end up in jail. Shorter than 18" is a felony, I'd use an 18.5" factory barrel. A double barrel, no way, a pump is the way to go. Everybody knows what one sounds like, and no intruder wants to be on the wrong end of one

I totally agree, I carried my Mossberg slugster with rifle sights for many years, didn't feel I needed anymore when I moved to east Texas and got rid of it. regretfully.

Originally Posted by ceh383

I would disagree here.....Shotgun, yes....sawed off, no use one and you end up in jail. Shorter than 18" is a felony, I'd use an 18.5" factory barrel. A double barrel, no way, a pump is the way to go. Everybody knows what one sounds like, and no intruder wants to be on the wrong end of one

True. No mistaking a pump action shot gun in low light conditions. Same can be said for my double barrel coach gun. No mistaking its a double barrel. Then I would yell....."My aim might not be the best....but I can hit just about anything with my 12." My eyes just arent as good as they use to be. Especially when I ran a nail through my left eye while building my house. Yes. Lacerated the cornea, lifted it, and it fell back to place. Doctors said my eyesight now is a total miracle in itself. If the 12 doesnt scare them, the Automatic 10ga (goose gun) will. You have to try this. Replace the shotshell with coarse rock salt. But dont use anything but a smooth bore and one you care little about. Instant fire ball!

I love my shotguns.

If it is the gun's fault that someone is shot and needs to be banned. Then it is the automobile's fault that there are collisions on the highway. Of course is a pencil's fault sometimes words get misspelled and kids fail school. And I won't even get into all the problems a computer keyboard causes.

19" is legal in South Dakota. by sawed off, I meant not using a 30" full choke barrell....

Guess my point is that I just hate to see this country go to the extreme that everybody is carrying a pistol, and feels they have the right to shoot anyone that threatens them.... Do you really want to kill someone instead of giving up a few bucks out of your wallet and a cheap watch from WalMart???

Talk to a cop, or an FBI agent, or anyone in law enforcement. Ask them their opinion of citizens carrying a concealed weapon....

Is it really necessary? Hunting, target shooting, self defense in your home, got no problem with any of that... But do you really want to think that everyone you see on the street, on the sidewalk, in the mall, or anywhere else is carrying a gun??? There's plenty of nuts in this world...and we all know how worthless the background checks are, and how easy it is to by a gun other then in a retail store... So some guy has an argument with his wife, puts his gun in his shoulder holster, goes to the bar and has a few and is now out in the public domain just begging someone to pick a fight or cross his path..... One life wasted because someone is exercising their alleged right to carry a concealed weapon is one too many........

Originally Posted by ceh383

I would disagree here.....Shotgun, yes....sawed off, no use one and you end up in jail. Shorter than 18" is a felony, I'd use an 18.5" factory barrel. A double barrel, no way, a pump is the way to go. Everybody knows what one sounds like, and no intruder wants to be on the wrong end of one

No single barrel, maybe a double barrel!!!!!.... I had to use mine, single shot, and I tell you it was scary having to reload in the middle of it. If this guy had decided to return fire I would of been out of luck.But for your house a shot gun is best , it will take out everything down a hall way and probably hit every square inch of your front door. Another good reason is the bird shot does not pass through walls as easily and hit other family memebers. Using a AK or some thing like that you will hit your neighbors house and their neighbors also...

And for those that say " I CHOOSE TO STAY AWAY FROM THOSE PLACES SO I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT LIKE YALL DO" . I wonder if those students and teachers said the same thing when the crap hit the fan on school campus. Truth is you dont know when it will happen or where ,and yes it could even happen in your nice little town......

When they say 19" barrel , does this include the shot chamber? 12 gauge for instance, does the 19" start after the shell area or is the shell area included?