Thread: Lethal Weapon, Project A-Bucket

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Keep posting the pics mate as we love to see pics

Originally Posted by dlotraf33

Well I'm kinda new to this, computer thing, and I have glanced at the views but it never really registered with me, I guess. And I personally don't do much posts of the "atta boy" type post, unless I am really amazed. Like most anything Roadster32 does. So I'll just keep posting the pics, maybe go back and add more from earlier. I'll just look at the visits so I'll know you all are still watching. Just grunt every now and then so I know you haven't fallen asleep...............

Originally Posted by roadster32

If the top of the F1 mount was curved over towards the wheel the shocks would work much more effectively, Coming on well.

I don't know, Steve, sometimes they work TOO well in more of an upright position. One member on another forum posted that his hot rod rode like a truck, too firm. When I looked at his pictures everything looked very well done, good components and installed correctly. Then I noticed he had put the lower shock mounts on the wrong sides, and it was moving his shocks in at the bottom, making them more upright. I posted the picture of my front end and how they were intended to be mounted, and he changed them.

I have had people comment that mine are laid over too far, but they have been on there for over 20 years and the car has literally thousands of miles on it and handles like a sportscar. I also feel the shocks in this position give a little more lateral control, sort of acting as antisway bars. So, I guess there is more than one opinion on this subject.

Don

On the shock deal, they are rated at 100% at verticle, then diminish in effectiveness as angled. There are some charts floating around out there that show the numbers, but I don't have it handy right now. That being said, on these old transverse setups the angle can be less of a "negative" because the suspension tends to pivot on the spring center in most highway/real world use, only occasionally will the axle move evenly at both ends (such as driving across a swale). The possible additional problem on the example Pops mentioned of the shocks being mounted with the bottoms more toward the center of the chassis is a comparative lack of leverage for the rate of the shock.

BTW, Mopar had a similar shock bracket to the Ford F1.

Originally Posted by roadster32

If the top of the F1 mount was curved over towards the wheel the shocks would work much more effectively, Coming on well.

Ideally you are correct. The best location would be so the shock would be in a straight line intersecting the arc the wheel travels. So this is a compromise. Although with a solid axle the arc does not remain constant. Now mind you this is only my opinion from building and racing stock cars. Sometimes I have to remind myself I need to turn right as well..... This location was based on shock length, so there would be proper travel. The length of shock tower, adequate clearance for the steering arm on drivers side, and maintaining some angle, relative to the arc that the axle pivots around. I have found also that even rod shocks are really designed for heavier vehicles, not the lighter cars that they are installed on. The angle serves a couple of purposes. First it softens the shock some, second it offers better roll control, body roll in a turn, and third as Don pointed out is offers some lateral stability, chassis in relation to axle. And then there is ascetics. And sometimes we trade function for form, at least a little.

One of the things that I do on the transverse spring setup is to preload the spring slightly. What I mean by this is when the spring pivots are tightened they actually pull on the spring. For a 26" spring I use 31" inside to inside between pivot mounts. So when I tighten up pivot bolts it pulls the spring about 1/4" to 3/8". I hope that makes sense. Now I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but when I hear talk of a panard bar on a transverse spring setup, even with cross steer, I feel that the front end is not properly set up. I feel too much slop in spring shackles is the real cause. A preload on the spring acts to center the chassis to the axle and offer some amount of force to uncenter it. The normal force of cross steering action should not want to move the axle laterally in relation to the chassis. As stated before, just my opinion. Now coil on front, ie the way Roth used them on many of his rods is entirely different.

Opps........ One small clarification on the previous post. As for the cross steer statement, that was relative to radius rod or wishbone setup. I don't like the way 4 link looks and as such have no experience with that setup, it may very well need a panard bar. I just realized I had not taken that setup into account. Didn't want to get anybodys panties in a bunch this morning............

I'm here too. I'm a newb so I like to sit back and soak it all in most of the time. I am interested in this build because on my next one I want to do more in the selection of parts and fabrication of the chassis instead of buying a pre-engineered kit for a certain model. Keep it comin'!

I too am watching this post, as well as others. I am learning much about front and rear suspensions.

Jack.

Don shocks are designed to be upright, The reason a lot of cars seem to handle fairly well is that usually the springs are too stiff, Its all a comprimise really as ideally the springs and shocks should be matched, something difficult to do with whats available. That setup will undoubtably be ok but the tube shocks available really are not very good unless you buy the rather spendy Bilsteins, These will make a vast difference over the P&J tube shocks

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

I don't know, Steve, sometimes they work TOO well in more of an upright position. One member on another forum posted that his hot rod rode like a truck, too firm. When I looked at his pictures everything looked very well done, good components and installed correctly. Then I noticed he had put the lower shock mounts on the wrong sides, and it was moving his shocks in at the bottom, making them more upright. I posted the picture of my front end and how they were intended to be mounted, and he changed them.

I have had people comment that mine are laid over too far, but they have been on there for over 20 years and the car has literally thousands of miles on it and handles like a sportscar. I also feel the shocks in this position give a little more lateral control, sort of acting as antisway bars. So, I guess there is more than one opinion on this subject.

Don

I agree about the quality of the Bilsteins, and those were what Dan was going to use on his rpu but we ran out of time (and money) I think the Bilsteins go for about $ 150 per shock, and at some point after he recovers he wants to go to them. But in the meantime, the P and J ones work fine.

As for the shocks needing to be upright, I still feel that the way straight axled cars axles arc when going over a bump the shock should be laid over somewhat to mirror that arc. The exact degree needed is open to personal opinion, I guess, so we will agree to disagree on this one.

Don

dlo hhmm no pics show up , just the pic numbers .

Originally Posted by bluestang67

dlo hhmm no pics show up , just the pic numbers .

Well Hmmmmmmmmmmm......... I see them, and others I guess do, as they have commented on them............ Puzzler............

I shook my monitor and it didn't help must just be a glitch here .

Originally Posted by bluestang67

I shook my monitor and it didn't help must just be a glitch here .

No pics here either! Can I put the monitor down now?

Originally Posted by 34_40

No pics here either! Can I put the monitor down now?

Try logging out, deleting your cookies, and then logging back in. If I am logged out I do not see any pics either. If that doesn't work then I'm lost.......

Originally Posted by roadster32

Don shocks are designed to be upright, The reason a lot of cars seem to handle fairly well is that usually the springs are too stiff, Its all a comprimise really as ideally the springs and shocks should be matched, something difficult to do with whats available. That setup will undoubtably be ok but the tube shocks available really are not very good unless you buy the rather spendy Bilsteins, These will make a vast difference over the P&J tube shocks

I'm in agreement here, Steve!!! Anything beyond 20 degrees on the mounting angle of a shock negates the valving action of the shock and it becomes little more then a cushioning device for the (normally) too stiff spring(s). I tend to ask questions at car shows and other get togethers, it's always surprising to me just how few people know what the rating is on their springs, or the dampening values of the shocks....