Thread: Lethal Weapon, Project A-Bucket

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Update, Did all the finish welding on the chassis. Got all the ends capped and joints plated. I do think I will add some braces to the trans cross member a K towards the front, but will hold off on that till I'm sure of placement. Modified some F1 shock mounts and mounted to frame horns. I drilled frame and welded in some tubes for 7/16" bolts. I welded some bungs on the axle, made from some 1" DOM thick wall tapped to 5/8-18 threads and then cut a small plate from some 3/16", cut a 1" hole and welded that on for some additional support on the outer end of the bung. There is alot of stress on shock mounts and I have seen alot that have cracked with age. Also mostly got the gas tank mounted it's an 8 or 9 gal air tank I saved for such a use. I rarely put more than $20 bucks in one at a time, and that's when gas was below $3 a gal. I want the tank below the bed, and have room for a battery carrier on the pass side next to the tank. I'll put the filler neck in the top with some sort of cover in the bed to access it. Same for the battery, although I may go for a drop out type carrier, but still like to have access in case I need to jump it or whatever. Here's a few pic's. there hasn't been much interest so I haven't shown the step by step, type posts I had intended. But if someone has the interest I will be glad to show and describe in more detail any of the aspects of the build so far.

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The shocks should give you great control in that position. What would we rodders have done if Ford didn't use those mounts on their early pickups? Looks great so far.

Don

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

The shocks should give you great control in that position. What would we rodders have done if Ford didn't use those mounts on their early pickups? Looks great so far.

Don

Thanks Don, I used a similar setup on my other one, although I made the shock towers, but very similar angle.. That axle had shock stud holes in the axle. That one drives straight as an arrow, at all speeds.......

Very Nice work and what a brilliant idea to use the old air tank for the fuel,it certainly looks good under there.

Originally Posted by Whiplash23T

Very Nice work and what a brilliant idea to use the old air tank for the fuel,it certainly looks good under there.

Well it works. Used a 13 gal air tank on my other one. It would be nice to pick up the catalog and order one. But sometimes they don't have what I want, and mostly I can't afford to buy everything. I try to buy only what I can't make. Or splurge for that goodie, like the moon tank........ This is a low buck build.............. meaning somewhere in the 8000 to 10000 range. Man when you say it......... it seams like a fortune but you can't buy much for that anymore.......

If the top of the F1 mount was curved over towards the wheel the shocks would work much more effectively, Coming on well.

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

The shocks should give you great control in that position. What would we rodders have done if Ford didn't use those mounts on their early pickups? Looks great so far.

Don

Originally Posted by roadster32

If the top of the F1 mount was curved over towards the wheel the shocks would work much more effectively, Coming on well.

I don't know, Steve, sometimes they work TOO well in more of an upright position. One member on another forum posted that his hot rod rode like a truck, too firm. When I looked at his pictures everything looked very well done, good components and installed correctly. Then I noticed he had put the lower shock mounts on the wrong sides, and it was moving his shocks in at the bottom, making them more upright. I posted the picture of my front end and how they were intended to be mounted, and he changed them.

I have had people comment that mine are laid over too far, but they have been on there for over 20 years and the car has literally thousands of miles on it and handles like a sportscar. I also feel the shocks in this position give a little more lateral control, sort of acting as antisway bars. So, I guess there is more than one opinion on this subject.

Don

Don shocks are designed to be upright, The reason a lot of cars seem to handle fairly well is that usually the springs are too stiff, Its all a comprimise really as ideally the springs and shocks should be matched, something difficult to do with whats available. That setup will undoubtably be ok but the tube shocks available really are not very good unless you buy the rather spendy Bilsteins, These will make a vast difference over the P&J tube shocks

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

I don't know, Steve, sometimes they work TOO well in more of an upright position. One member on another forum posted that his hot rod rode like a truck, too firm. When I looked at his pictures everything looked very well done, good components and installed correctly. Then I noticed he had put the lower shock mounts on the wrong sides, and it was moving his shocks in at the bottom, making them more upright. I posted the picture of my front end and how they were intended to be mounted, and he changed them.

I have had people comment that mine are laid over too far, but they have been on there for over 20 years and the car has literally thousands of miles on it and handles like a sportscar. I also feel the shocks in this position give a little more lateral control, sort of acting as antisway bars. So, I guess there is more than one opinion on this subject.

Don

I agree about the quality of the Bilsteins, and those were what Dan was going to use on his rpu but we ran out of time (and money) I think the Bilsteins go for about $ 150 per shock, and at some point after he recovers he wants to go to them. But in the meantime, the P and J ones work fine.

As for the shocks needing to be upright, I still feel that the way straight axled cars axles arc when going over a bump the shock should be laid over somewhat to mirror that arc. The exact degree needed is open to personal opinion, I guess, so we will agree to disagree on this one.

Don

dlo hhmm no pics show up , just the pic numbers .

Originally Posted by roadster32

Don shocks are designed to be upright, The reason a lot of cars seem to handle fairly well is that usually the springs are too stiff, Its all a comprimise really as ideally the springs and shocks should be matched, something difficult to do with whats available. That setup will undoubtably be ok but the tube shocks available really are not very good unless you buy the rather spendy Bilsteins, These will make a vast difference over the P&J tube shocks

I'm in agreement here, Steve!!! Anything beyond 20 degrees on the mounting angle of a shock negates the valving action of the shock and it becomes little more then a cushioning device for the (normally) too stiff spring(s). I tend to ask questions at car shows and other get togethers, it's always surprising to me just how few people know what the rating is on their springs, or the dampening values of the shocks....

It's like we've talked about before, there are things that we do to our cars that others swear will not work, and yet somehow they go down the road and do it quite well. Personally, I think we overthink this stuff sometimes, very few of us are mechanical engineers, so we just do what makes sense to us and what has worked for us for a bunch of years.

I've had that same shock setup on the 27 for over 20 years and the car has been to Daytona 5 times and driven almost daily for 7 years and it could not ride or handle better.As for me knowing the rating or dampening value of my shocks, I buy them because they are pretty chromed ones and the right length.

Don

Originally Posted by roadster32

If the top of the F1 mount was curved over towards the wheel the shocks would work much more effectively, Coming on well.

Ideally you are correct. The best location would be so the shock would be in a straight line intersecting the arc the wheel travels. So this is a compromise. Although with a solid axle the arc does not remain constant. Now mind you this is only my opinion from building and racing stock cars. Sometimes I have to remind myself I need to turn right as well..... This location was based on shock length, so there would be proper travel. The length of shock tower, adequate clearance for the steering arm on drivers side, and maintaining some angle, relative to the arc that the axle pivots around. I have found also that even rod shocks are really designed for heavier vehicles, not the lighter cars that they are installed on. The angle serves a couple of purposes. First it softens the shock some, second it offers better roll control, body roll in a turn, and third as Don pointed out is offers some lateral stability, chassis in relation to axle. And then there is ascetics. And sometimes we trade function for form, at least a little.

One of the things that I do on the transverse spring setup is to preload the spring slightly. What I mean by this is when the spring pivots are tightened they actually pull on the spring. For a 26" spring I use 31" inside to inside between pivot mounts. So when I tighten up pivot bolts it pulls the spring about 1/4" to 3/8". I hope that makes sense. Now I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but when I hear talk of a panard bar on a transverse spring setup, even with cross steer, I feel that the front end is not properly set up. I feel too much slop in spring shackles is the real cause. A preload on the spring acts to center the chassis to the axle and offer some amount of force to uncenter it. The normal force of cross steering action should not want to move the axle laterally in relation to the chassis. As stated before, just my opinion. Now coil on front, ie the way Roth used them on many of his rods is entirely different.

Opps........ One small clarification on the previous post. As for the cross steer statement, that was relative to radius rod or wishbone setup. I don't like the way 4 link looks and as such have no experience with that setup, it may very well need a panard bar. I just realized I had not taken that setup into account. Didn't want to get anybodys panties in a bunch this morning............

Originally Posted by dlotraf33

Here's a few pic's. there hasn't been much interest so I haven't shown the step by step, type posts I had intended. But if someone has the interest I will be glad to show and describe in more detail any of the aspects of the build so far.

I hope you don't let the number of replys make you think there is little interest in this build. You have had over 2300 visits and probably most of them are like me. I usually prefer just to watch, learn and enjoy without making a response. You have shown an amazing amount of ingenuity in the build and I really love that. So many builds are done with a credit card and a Summit catalog....the low buck approach you are using is very refreshing and educational. I have seen the same in your other builds. Keep the pics coming.