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Thread: Sleeving a Block
          
   
   

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  1. #1
    Capecreations21's Avatar
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    Sleeving a Block

     



    So I've heard this term before and have done some really basic research about what it is and how it works, my question however is how do you measure the distance between each cylinder so you know how far you can sleeve the block? Also can you do this to any block or only certain and specific applications? Sorry if these are foolish questions, I am no engine builder lol, just very interested in the process and would like to learn a little more about it. Thank you for your time.

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    jerry clayton's Avatar
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    A dial caliper will let you measure the distance, divide by 2----------but that really doesn't answer the question-------

    there are methods to sleeve about anything-----however lots of things will limit you on size-bolt or cooling holes close to sleeve will crack out and if bolt holes in deck you will probably lose clamping force at that spot-----cooling holes can be filled with plugs and redrilled-in fact , back in the days of 392 on nitro we filled those holes with plugs to reinforce deck, but of course had to resurface decks

    Was there any specific type of block that you wanted to do?????

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry clayton View Post
    A dial caliper will let you measure the distance, divide by 2----------but that really doesn't answer the question-------

    there are methods to sleeve about anything-----however lots of things will limit you on size-bolt or cooling holes close to sleeve will crack out and if bolt holes in deck you will probably lose clamping force at that spot-----cooling holes can be filled with plugs and redrilled-in fact , back in the days of 392 on nitro we filled those holes with plugs to reinforce deck, but of course had to resurface decks

    Was there any specific type of block that you wanted to do?????
    Thanks for the reply! And yes there is in fact but I'm sure it will get flamed on here as it is no hot rod lol. It is a continuing conflict about a non turbo vg30de motor never being able to produce the same amount of power as the twin turbo motor.. However one outlet few people have gone is sleeping the an block and producing excellent numbers but little information on how it was done and how much it was sleeved.

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    rspears's Avatar
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    I'm not your source for information on sleeving a block, but the VG30DE is a Nissan V6 produced in mass from ~'83 through '03 or maybe '04 and came in a lot of versions through the years, right? Are you looking at sleeving the block for a repair, or are you considering sleeving all six holes to be able to over bore for more volume? Just curious.
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    Roger
    Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rspears View Post
    I'm not your source for information on sleeving a block, but the VG30DE is a Nissan V6 produced in mass from ~'83 through '03 or maybe '04 and came in a lot of versions through the years, right? Are you looking at sleeving the block for a repair, or are you considering sleeving all six holes to be able to over bore for more volume? Just curious.
    You certainly are correct, shoot I am surprised it is that well known even in the hot rod community, that's cool to know. And yeah it was produced in America up until 1996 which is the first year they introduced obd2... Which is another battle I am facing but I think I am gunna go the halted standalone ecu route... Anyway it was produced in Japan until 03 I believe and the jdm motors are much sought after. I have two blocks one from my non turbo motor and I have a twin turbo block as well. They are very similar except for a couple of oil squirters. Whichever is in better condition I would like to sleeve all six holes for a much larger bore. I've heard it can be done and read some posts and seem some videos in the mid 400s for horsepower and the response is silly and they rev out to 10-12k. Seems like it would be unique to do as well. "you may as well sleeve it and put in Q45 pistons from the VH45 in there. A .040 over VH piston is 94mm so that would put you somewhere around 3.5l. It's been done in a VG30E before." This is the original post on a different forum that got me thinking about it.
    Last edited by Capecreations21; 10-16-2016 at 06:50 PM.

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    Another thing to consider with sleeving all of the holes, is to have the mains align bored or honed. There can be some block/main distortion from all of the added stresses (sleeve interference fit). If you did this in my shop, with or without the sleeving, I would be recommending the align hone anyway. Sleeve first, then align hone to establish main bore roundness and alignment, then square (deck) the block. Once that is done, bore the sleeves so that the holes are perpendicular to the deck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Bee View Post
    Another thing to consider with sleeving all of the holes, is to have the mains align bored or honed. There can be some block/main distortion from all of the added stresses (sleeve interference fit). If you did this in my shop, with or without the sleeving, I would be recommending the align hone anyway. Sleeve first, then align hone to establish main bore roundness and alignment, then square (deck) the block. Once that is done, bore the sleeves so that the holes are perpendicular to the deck.

    Now that sounds like the ticket. Seems like you may have done this once or twice lol. Is there any information that I need myself before bringing it to a shop like yourself, or can I bring it to a shop with the idea in mind that I want it to spin 10k and sleeve it and they will know how far they can go in terms of bigger bore and stroke or not so much? In all reality I would like to learn to do the machine work myself but for one the equipment is all kind of expensive and I'm not sure how many blocks I can ruin before I am broke lol. Thank you much for the informative answer tho, best description I have seen of how to do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capecreations21 View Post
    .... Is there any information that I need myself before bringing it to a shop like yourself, or can I bring it to a shop with the idea in mind that I want it to spin 10k and sleeve it and they will know how far they can go in terms of bigger bore and stroke or not so much?
    You definitely CANNOT just carry your block to any machine shop and expect to get back what you want. There are tons of old posts here about guys spending big $$$ and being disappointed with what they got back. And just because a shop tells you "...we sleeve blocks all the time" doesn't mean they know beans about sleeving all the bores, punching it to the max while keeping it reliable, and balancing it to spin. You need a good "performance machine shop" that understands building race engines where the guy is smarter than you about how it's done, but still listens to you for what you want, and explains why it'll work or why not - the shop that can point to a proven track record of successful builds. My $0.02 on it.
    Last edited by rspears; 10-17-2016 at 06:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rspears View Post
    You definitely CANNOT just carry your block to any machine shop and expect to get back what you want. There are tons of old posts here about guys spending big $$$ and being disappointed with what they got back. And just because a shop tells you "...we sleeve blocks all the time" doesn't mean they know beans about sleeving all the bores, punching it to the max while keeping it reliable, and balancing it to spin. You need a good "performance machine shop" that understands building race engines where the guy is smarter than you about how it's done, but still listens to you for what you want, and explains why it'll work or why not - the shop that can point to a proven track record of successful builds. My $0.02 on it.

    That's some good advice for sure, and yes I did see a couple of posts involving people having bad luck with block builds in my quick search for wherei should post this.. Anyway, I couldn't agree more a performance shop is definitely the way to go, I guess I asked if I could just explain what I want because I don't know how to calculate the specs myself, that would I imagine be the easiest way is if I knew exactly what I wanted the dimensions to be?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capecreations21 View Post
    That's some good advice for sure, and yes I did see a couple of posts involving people having bad luck with block builds in my quick search for wherei should post this.. Anyway, I couldn't agree more a performance shop is definitely the way to go, I guess I asked if I could just explain what I want because I don't know how to calculate the specs myself, that would I imagine be the easiest way is if I knew exactly what I wanted the dimensions to be?
    That's where the "...guy (that) is smarter than you about how it's done, but still listens to you for what you want" part plays in. You don't need to be able to give a good guy all of the measurements. That's what you're paying him for. I'd point you to a shop that I would trust for that kind of a build, but you'd be traveling about 1700 miles one way
    Roger
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  11. #11
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    I've got a complete machine shop with equipment for doing engines to national/world record levels----If you brought that engine to me -I would listen until you got up to the point of wanting it to turn 10-12,000 rpm and make more power than a twin turbo set up---------

    Why don't you just swap in an LS7, Coyote Hell Cat, etc ??????

    Your engine doesn't have the material strength to hold together in one assembly something that turns 10-12k and makes hp that you are looking for-------

    Further-----to have a vehicle that turns those rpm's at those power levels , the clutch/flywheel and other parts SFI ratings plus containment (Scattershields) would add so much weight and difficulty to work on the car--------

    The lube system and valve train on it will be $$$$$$$$$$ of F1 levels

    Sorry but time for my 2nd cup of coffee
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry clayton View Post
    I've got a complete machine shop with equipment for doing engines to national/world record levels----If you brought that engine to me -I would listen until you got up to the point of wanting it to turn 10-12,000 rpm and make more power than a twin turbo set up---------

    Why don't you just swap in an LS7, Coyote Hell Cat, etc ??????

    Your engine doesn't have the material strength to hold together in one assembly something that turns 10-12k and makes hp that you are looking for-------

    Further-----to have a vehicle that turns those rpm's at those power levels , the clutch/flywheel and other parts SFI ratings plus containment (Scattershields) would add so much weight and difficulty to work on the car--------

    The lube system and valve train on it will be $$$$$$$$$$ of F1 levels

    Sorry but time for my 2nd cup of coffee

    Yes you are absolutely right if you get down to the actual cost to power ratio there are a hundred and one way better possibilites than getting that NA block to scream. The reason I am so intrigued is because it is not done very often so it would be a fun and mostly unique build to have a super quick NA platform for that particular car. I didn't think really 400 or so HP was more than what the internals could actually hold, I figure there are plenty of TT set ups where the clutch and flywheel hold 800-1k HP but does the fact that it is spinning at such wild RPMs change how the clutch and flywheel will engage and disengage as far as strength?

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    Its called CENTRIFICAL force----It will explode and you need a certified containment /adapter for it plus the drive shaft also------and front pullies/dampner.
    This will not be an engine combo for the streets /roads and for competition you will need many things SPI certified yearly plus roll cage/chassis/seat/safty harness as well as driver suit/helmut/gloves

    A 10-12k rpm engine has no place on the street/roads
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry clayton View Post
    Its called CENTRIFICAL force----It will explode and you need a certified containment /adapter for it plus the drive shaft also------and front pullies/dampner.
    This will not be an engine combo for the streets /roads and for competition you will need many things SPI certified yearly plus roll cage/chassis/seat/safty harness as well as driver suit/helmut/gloves

    A 10-12k rpm engine has no place on the street/roads
    Excuses me if this sounds ridiculous because I really don't know much about this topic at all as I am no engine builder, but i am just confused I suppose about how the fact that it is rotating quicker becomes an issue even though it is under the same or less power than other street cars.. Not that I am saying it should be on the street I just want a better understanding of the concept, thank you for putting up with my uneducated comments.

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    rspears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capecreations21 View Post
    Thanks for the reply! And yes there is in fact but I'm sure it will get flamed on here as it is no hot rod lol. It is a continuing conflict about a non turbo vg30de motor never being able to produce the same amount of power as the twin turbo motor.. However one outlet few people have gone is sleeving the an block and producing excellent numbers but little information on how it was done and how much it was sleeved.
    Capecreations21, you were on target about not being understood on a hot rod forum! The smaller, lighter engines in many European vehicles (especially the exotics) push their peak torque and HP way, way out on the curves compared to American Iron V8's. Heck, some of the Ferrari's hit Peak Torque above 9000rpm, and push out to 13,300rpm or higher. Now I'm not saying that your Nissan V6 is going to hit 12,000rpm, but you need to find a shop that works on the tuner crowd's engine needs vs American V-8's. There's a reason you don't take your Ferrari to a Chevy dealership for service, and the same applies to machine shops, IMO.

    I hope you'll keep posting your progress on the Nissan V-6, especially a You-Tube video of it cranking out >10,000rpm on the dyno, complete with the graph of power output!
    Roger
    Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.

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