Thread: And more questions: Front suspension & clearance

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My roadster is stiff as hell.

Now I am about to tackle my front suspension, and have a few problems and questions. I'll go over each problem with photo to illustrate

PROBLEM 1: FRONT SHOCK ANGLE



Several people pointed out that my front shock may not be sitting at the proper angle. They are almost at a 45 degree angle! Seems they need to be a bit more upright. I do not want to change my top mounts so I am looking into shorter lower shock mounts, so to reduce the distance between top point and lower point.

Here is an exemple of what So Cal speed shop tech referred to as: 'shorties' I saw them on a car at a show - WHERE CAN I FIND THESE FOR SALE? So Cal does not carry them... I have called around and googled and so far nothing.



Notice how short the lower mount is here? It helps get the shock in a more 'upright" position - AND NO flipping my current mounts around will NOT work because then the shocks would be sitting in a 100% upright position - not right either.

To illustrate, here are the shock mounts I currently have:



PROBLEM 2: SHOCK LENGTH

I also believe the shocks I have are too long. To fit in they are almost collapsed all the way in and so there is nothing more to give when I hit a hole I go down in it, there is no travel left. I was told shocks need to sit at the halfway point of travel when resting. Looks to me I am right now sitting about 80% in I measured the length of my shocks when completely collapsed and it is about 10 inches. I see Pete & jake's makes some that are only 7 7/8 (maybe would work better for me?). Remember that decreasing the angle (problem 1) will also mean the shocks will need to be even shorter now.

PROBLEM 3: CLEARANCE

One of you did point out a while back, when I posted some photos, that I have a clearance problem. Yes I do, not very serious, but there is some rubbing / scrapping at the very surface of the rod caused by the crank wheel. This probably only happens when I hit some huge hole or at high speed. for all I know it might have happened before I got the car. Here is photo to illustrate:



I showed the problem to my hot rod specialist and he said that if it was his car he would leave it alone, the scrapping is too mild to worry about it. Yes, but it is my mission to WORRY about EVERYTHING , I am afterall, a woman LOL. Actually, i owuld not worry about it as is right now, except that I am now thinking, if I make my front suspension ride better, this probably means more travel? Would that then means also MORE SCRAPPING? (Or I am wrong about this?) How can I fix this problem? What are my options.

Oh boy are you sorry I found this forum yet? I sure keep you guys busy hehe

PS: I LOVE YOU GUYS - I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO WITHOUT YOU

Most manufacturers recomend that the shock angle not exceed 30 degrees. The shock should be near the center of it's travel with the car at ride height.

.The lower shock mounts on you roadster are identical to the ones on my roadster,,,,my top mounts look like to other photo,,,,

I think the shocks are too long to do a good job,,,would appear to bottom out,,,,,

Have you taken one off and found the center of travel,,,that is ,,,,half way compressed and measured the distance between the two shock mounts?

I would think SoCal my have a different lower mount,,,I believe they make the top mount like the one on your car. Danny

Okay Faith, I notice Mr highboy is riding nice an low.

Next thing I notice in your photo of the Harmonic balancer of your engine, (engine wheel), that directly under your spring you have 2 steel packer pieces.

Now 3rd photo the first leaf on your transverse spring, the eyes, that is the shackle end of the spring are reversed.

Now the combination of these to things lowers the the whole front of Mr Highboy, and that consequently you run out of "Suspension travel".

OPTIONS.

My first recommendation, would be To :

Flip the bottom spring leaf so that this raises the front suspension. Only the bottom leaf, so you have to pull your spring apart. Put it all in and back together.

This should give you at the very least another 2 inches in height, so therefor more suspension travel.

This will also by triangulation decrease your shock angle.

Adjust heights by placing packer pieces on either the top or bottom of the spring.

Before doing all this measure from the ground to the bottom of the chassis rail front and back inbetween the wheels. What you are doing is a preadjustment check.

After your "fun weekend", of parts adjustment, remeasure your ride heights again, they should increase on the front and slightly decrease on the back.

You are doing this to check how Mr Roadster sits on the road and the look of his "attitude". It will be easier to step back 20 feet and see how he looks.

If he looks good go for a slow Test drive and see how he handles, you are checking for bump steer, braking, handling. Then go for a wheel alignment.

If he looks bad, like he is down in the rear. Still go for your test drive. If satisfied, then start doing some engineering to raise up his rear, I we will tell you later when you give us some photos of the rear suspension. Once you get that right. Then go for the wheel alignment.

You have the wrong length shocks, damper hitting the tie rod and a hard ride. The spring on the front almost flat, therefore there is no or very little sideways movement on the shackles.
In my opinion, there has been a lot of things sacrificed to get a lower riding car, there usually are, mines no different, thats why i'm increasing the ride height on my roadster.
Rather than change the shocks or mounts, why not get a new spring with more arch built in it? this will cure most things in one go? and hopefully the roadster's stance will not be affected too much.
I wouldn't flip the front spring and certainly not without getting the profile altered and retempering. Cheaper to get a new spring.

[QUOTE=Mel Chave].
I wouldn't flip the front spring and certainly not without getting the profile altered and retempering. Cheaper to get a new spring.[/QUOTE

Just the one leaf with the eyes in it or the whole spring ?

Faith, in my opinion the first thing you should do is remove the Panhard bar and sling it as far as you can. It is the most awful mechanical abortion that was ever bolted to a car. This Panhard guy should have been suspended in mid-air with a strong cord around his privates until he came up with an acceptable design to limit lateral movement of the axle. That's as nice as I can be about that.

Next, don't fall for the "shorty" shock crap. You need shocks that have enough travel so that they neither reach their limits in extension or compression. In my opinion, you should start with shocks that have at least 4 inches total travel. Then the shocks should be mounted to the car with 55% of that travel in compression and 45% of that travel in extension. Faith, I don't know who built your car, but when I build something like this, I begin with a component that will work for the intended purpose and then fabricate mounts to bolt it or weld it to the car. You don't install something on the car like the shock mounts you have and then just throw any old shock on there. That's what someone has done on your car. Let's say you do have a 4" travel shock. Compress it all the way in and then pull the plunger out 2.200". That will be the installed length eye-to-eye of the shock and will give you 2.200" in compression and 1.800" in extension. Whatever that eye-to-eye measurement is, is how you will want to build your shock mounts.

In an ideal world, to take full advantage of the shock, you would mount it thusly. Place a string under one of the tires and hold it in the approximate position of the shock on the other side of the car. Swing it up and down in an arc. This is the ideal mounting line for the shock to use all of its capability. Realistically, follow Dave Severson's advice about the 30 degree angle limit and you'll be ok.

Faith: All of these guys are pretty much saying the same thing: Your front end was set up to get it as low as possible. and some things were done that reduced the clearances to a very minimal amount, so when you hit a pot hole. or rough surface, your front end is exceeding the space it needs to travel

Here is what I see from the pictures:

1) Your spring is a reversed eye spring. However, the reversed eye drops it an inch or so more than a regular eye, plus the spring seems to have been dearched somewhat, compounding the problem.

2) You have very little travel between the bottom of your spring perch u-bolts (in the center of the spring) and the top of the axle. Plus, they have put in some steel shims to take up threads, and further decreased the space between the two.

3) Your shocks may or may not be too long, and until you raise the front to an acceptable level, you won't know for sure. You generally want 2/3 of the shock for compression and 1/3 for upward travel. I have set them up at 1/2 and 1/2 and that is ok too.

4) Buy a new spring (Speedway has these, among others) and possibly get a regular vs reversed eye. Get rid of that spacer shim and get spring perch u bolts with a shorter length.

5) Once you get the car sitting at a couple of inches higher, or at least an inch higher, you can start playing with the shocks. I got my shorter lower shock mounts from Pete and Jakes years ago, and I think they still carry them. Yes, yours are too long. Sell them on Ebay.

Once you are done with all of this, get a good front end alignment (not A Pep Boys special) and make sure your caster, camber ,etc is ok.

That is all you have going on, someone wanted a low car, and got it too low.

Don

Here, I pulled this up for you. Check out this website;

www.peteandjakes.com/parts/32/32_boltons.htm


You can buy just the lower mounts, I did. Here is a picture of the whole setup.

Don

First thing I'd try would be to move those spring spacers up between the spring and the X-member. A half an inch or so doesn't seem like much, but it can make a big difference. Next thing would be a main leaf with the eyes down, like the others say.

Looks like what you need is the SuperBell lower shock mount.

The one in the pic measures 1 3/8" from center of perch bolt bore to center of shock mount stud.

Be aware that these do not have a keyway on the perch bolt or internal protrusion on the lower shock mount proper.
I have seen them spun a few degrees, but drilling and tapping for a setscrew would take care of that problem.

The shock shown is a SoCal unit and measures 7 1/2" body length.
This is from the top of the shock body proper where the rod enters and the bottom of the shock body proper where it attaches to the lower ring and does not include the ring.

This pic shows the 32's Deuce factory stainless lower shock mount.
It measures 2 1/2" from center of perch bolt bore to center of shock mount stud.

The shock on this car measures the same as the one on the 31 in the above pic.

I would argue the point about a panhard bar on a cross-steer car.
They work very well and control shackle sway steering inputs caused by the frame swinging on the shackles when entering a turn and while in the turn.

My 32 steers very well on twisty mountain roads, tracks well on the straighaways and is a pleasure to drive.


Far as the front spring goes, place the two 'stacker blocks' on top of the spring - appropriately retained by the spring center bolt.
You may want to buy a new spring center bolt.
They're cheap and commonly available at real parts houses.

If you've not disassembled a leaf spring there are several precautions you want to take.
Let us know.

Getting the front end up a little bit will help with the crank pulley/tie rod conflict, but . . . you're still going to have conflict issues cuz the chassis still bottoms out in the same place.

To that end, it looks like you have a Hurst motor mount setup in the car and are probably running the 48 Ford style rubber biscuit mounts.

If - big word here - you have room to go up, you may be able be to raise the engine.
You may run into exhaust to frame problems, trans conflict with the body's trans tunnel and driveshaft angle problems as well as throttle rod interference with the body.

If you decide to go this route, measure how much travel you have before the front suspension bottoms out and raise the engine 1/4" - 1/2" above that figure.

You may be able to get away with a minimal engine raise and depending on how the rear axle is hung, you might be able to adjust the pinion angle without welding or other major work.

Even simpler would be to heat and bend the steering arms a reasonable amount so as to lower the tie rod thereby gaining additional clearance between crank pulley and tie rod.

I understand that some aftermarket steering arms are cast so you can't bend those, but if they are forged or original Ford forgings you can.

It appears you have aftermarket arms so you need to be careful here.

Speedway has steering arms with a fairly deep bend and that could be a good way to go.

Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Here, I pulled this up for you. Check out this website;

www.peteandjakes.com/parts/32/32_boltons.htm


You can buy just the lower mounts, I did. Here is a picture of the whole setup.

Don

I AM NOT SURE THESE MOUNTS ARE THAT MUCH SHORTER THAN MINE... I'll call and ask them to measure them...

Originally Posted by DennyW

Like this Richard ?

Thanks Denny

Originally Posted by techinspector1

Faith, in my opinion the first thing you should do is remove the Panhard bar

me no have panhard bar... And want to add one! Funny you should mention though because i just ordered one so my roadster will quit changing lanes every time I hit a hole in the road i think what you are seeing on the photo is the cross steering bar or whatever you call it... I have a half rack steering system (a newer invention that came out about a year ago).