Thread: BG 6 Shooter vs Edelbrock Dual Quad?

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I currently have a Street & Performance TPI unit on my 383 stroker. After too many years of trying to get this to run right, I think I am done with fuel injection. The cam is big because I wont have a hot rod without one...In my opinion they arent hot rods unless they sound like one! But it always run rich and the exhaust is very hot due to the long lobe of the cam.
Even after spending lots of money, having many chips burnt, and experimenting with an ALDL diagnostic/programmer...it still seems to be more pain than its worth.

So here is my question...does anyone have any personal experience with either a Barry Grant 6 Shooter or an Edelbrock Dual Quad on their SBC? I am curious which would be the better choice for a stroker motor? Hopefully someone has installed one of these and can speak from first hand knowledge.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer!

Oh...and if anyone is interested in fuel injection...I know where there is a TPI unit for sale (lol).

I think they both will work well for hot street applications, BG makes a good carb system. one of the mag's did an article on that system. Oh and I am looking for a tpi unit, how much is it? and how much would shipping be to dayton ohio 45414. thanks

Originally Posted by troy_cryer

I currently have a Street & Performance TPI unit on my 383 stroker. After too many years of trying to get this to run right, I think I am done with fuel injection. The cam is big because I wont have a hot rod without one...In my opinion they arent hot rods unless they sound like one! But it always run rich and the exhaust is very hot due to the long lobe of the cam.
Even after spending lots of money, having many chips burnt, and experimenting with an ALDL diagnostic/programmer...it still seems to be more pain than its worth.

So here is my question...does anyone have any personal experience with either a Barry Grant 6 Shooter or an Edelbrock Dual Quad on their SBC? I am curious which would be the better choice for a stroker motor? Hopefully someone has installed one of these and can speak from first hand knowledge.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer!

Oh...and if anyone is interested in fuel injection...I know where there is a TPI unit for sale (lol).

You say it always runs rich and the exhaust is very hot.
If it where running to rich at idle the exhaust temp. would be very cold, not hot.
You have a very good carb guy down there in Texas by the name of Chuck Nuytten.
My advice is to buy one good carb from a shop like Nuytten's.

I have to agree with Eric on the sensible level. One good carb will outperform and be more suited to an engine that two or three carbs.

Now, that being said, I tend to run 2 or 3 carbs because I simply like the hot rod look, and put up with some premature plug replacement, black exhaust, etc. As soon as Edelbrock comes out with the proposed tripower manifold for the Vortec heads, my T will have one and the single four setup will be on Ebay. I also ran two 500 CFM Edelbrocks on an Offenhuaser manifold on my 302 for years. About twice the required flow, but I loved the look and the comments.

But if that is not your reasons for wanting one, your engine will perform better with one well matched carb, no question about it. I'm with you on the fuel injection..........I know it is the modern thing and much better, but I am too old to try to learn them now.


Don

I on the other hand haven't owned a hotrod with out 2 4s on it in a lot of years. People are always telling me get just One and run it that way My first set of 2x4 was on my 57 Desoto hemi(which I wish I still had) that was in 63 so its been awhile since any of my hotrods ran anything but 2 4s. My curent 53 ford with 350+ runs real good on them

You knew I'd have to chime in here too

".....I have to agree with Eric on the sensible level. One good carb will outperform and be more suited to an engine that two or three carbs......"

Nor could I agree more...........That being said what fun is just one carb or FI

I can't speak from first hand knowlege on the BG 6 shooter but I've run both Tri-Power and Dual Quads on an engine or two . Running a big cam and getting a clean idle can be a bit of a challenge anyway and a real pain on a tri-power set up.

While I tend to go for the Tri-power setups, I think that in the long run you might be happier and get closer to what you want running a dual quad setup.

With the stroker and big cam, I'd suggest that you go with an Edelbrock intake, progressive linkage and 600 CFM carbs. I think you will find that they are a bit more responsive than the 500s would be and a bit more forgiving on getting a good idle. The secondaries are controlled by an air valve so they will only provide the amount of air/fuel that the engine can take. (Experience from running dual quads on a 383 stroker in a 58 Chevy prior to going to Tri-power)

Thanks for the input!

From a logical point of view...I agree about the thoughts of the the temps would be lower if it were too rich. In fact that caused me to invest more time and money because I thought I new better. Actually due to the long duration of the cam, ignition is actually carrying over into the exhaust...which dramatically raises the exhaust temps. I have adjusted timing until my fingers cant feel the heat any longer...but the large cam still causes the exhaust to be too hot (ranging from 500 - 650 at the port).

So...again, I am just so done with FI. This car has served us very well. It has always been reliable and ran strong...until I installed the FI. Now I am ready to bring it back to simplicity. So far the comments lean towards dual quads. Could that be because no one has installed a Barry Grant 6-Shooter?

Thanks again!
Troy

Originally Posted by troy_cryer

Thanks for the input!

From a logical point of view...I agree about the thoughts of the the temps would be lower if it were too rich. In fact that caused me to invest more time and money because I thought I new better. Actually due to the long duration of the cam, ignition is actually carrying over into the exhaust...which dramatically raises the exhaust temps. I have adjusted timing until my fingers cant feel the heat any longer...but the large cam still causes the exhaust to be too hot (ranging from 500 - 650 at the port).

So...again, I am just so done with FI. This car has served us very well. It has always been reliable and ran strong...until I installed the FI. Now I am ready to bring it back to simplicity. So far the comments lean towards dual quads. Could that be because no one has installed a Barry Grant 6-Shooter?

Thanks again!
Troy

Troy,if you have an exhaust temp. of 500 to 650 your engine is "pig rich".
Is this just a wild guess or do you have a pyrometer installed on the engine?
On a performance engine engine it is very common to hit 1,250 to 1,350 degree's F when taken at the start of the exhaust tube.
In fact before the wide band O20 sensor came along every endurance engine I built was set to run at 1,250 F or more depending on the piston material.
In a drag engine that was torn down every 20 or so pass's we would run it close to 1,500 degree's F.
"Acutually due to the long duration of the cam,ignition is carrying over into the exhaust...which dramatically rasies the exhaust temps."
I am un-sure what you are trying to say.

exhaust temp isn't anywhere close to be as cool as coolant temp.... exhaust temp is supposed to be the direct cause of an explosion..... thats why header paint is designed for 1200+ degrees..... you should lean that baby out a ton and she should run pretty nice

Whether you have carb, carbs, or fuel injection, IMO it would be a better car if it were cammed correctly, wouldn't it? I don't understand why you would want to trade off the sound for performance???? Might become a great car if you were to get on the phone with one of the cam companies and get one built to match your car....

In the case of my recommendation, it is based on the long duration of the camming you are using and that Tri-power setups can be a bit touchy to get dialed in correctly and may still not be optimum for your set up.

BG has a reputation for making good parts and I suspect this set up will be same. I'm just not sure it will cure your complaints. Your basically seeing what I have seen with Tri-Power on this type of engine.

Your basically trying cure a symptom....not the problem and I believe you will have better luck with the dual quads.

In the case of my old Plymouth I'm running into a bit of a simular situation, but can live with the idle that's a bit rich rather than stepping the cam down a step like I possibly should (or going to a 4 BBL or 2) .

Great point. And I agree 100%.

Thus the reason I insisted and made a 4-way conference call with the engine builder, Street & Performance (FI), Comp Cams, and myself when designing the engine. All three of them agreed on the components on that date. But you would be surprised how they all started running for the hills when the combination didnt work out. They all made the recommendation on the cam until it didnt work out. Then they all claimed I installed the wrong cam!!!

As we all know...too much cam is wrong for any combination. But this cam isnt too much. It just seems too much for FI.

I stand by my original thoughts that a hot rod must sound like a hot rod...not a late model camaro or mustang (no offense meant...I know they too can be a hot rod...especially compared to a rice burner). But there is something special (in my opinion!!!) about a Henry Ford car which sounds like it wants to let loose on the asphault. So I am simply wanting to search out experience from anyone who has ran a BG 6-Shooter or Edelbrock Dual Quad so I can learn which one would work the best in this combination.

Thanks again!
Troy

It may well be too much for FI, I'm certainly no EFI expert... I've always been very satisfied with the Tech guys at Comp, guess I must be lucky.... I would be curious to know the cam specs for the engine.

Guess I'd agree with what Mike said on the dual fours and vacuum secondaries with progressive linkage. A big cam has a tough time idling on a tri-power setup. Bleed holes in the throttle blades on the center carb seems to help a bunch. As for the Barry Grant set up, doubt if it is much different in theory and operation then the old tri-power set ups, just better carbs that are more tuneable. I've ran a couple of Ford FE's with Tri-Powers and one with dual fours. Both at an equal state of tune, IMO the dual fours gave better performance.

No offense meant, but I guess I will continue to place my emphasis on the results on the chassis dyno. I'd much rather go fast then sound fast!!!!!

I think we are only hearing part of this story.
I have a customer that has a full -on 565 pro street BBC with a very stout mech. roller cam 275 at .050.
He runs a Force fuel injection unit and the car will start very well and has a fair idle at 1,250 rpm's.
He switched from a flowed 1,050 dominator to the Force fuel injection and picked up a lower idle speed and better driveabilty along with better throttle responce.

I think I understand 100 percent what Troy is talking about with the cam situation. When we build a street driven hot rod, sometimes performance takes a backseat to image. If we were building these things to run down the quarter, we would go for as much efficiency as possible, but when we build them for the street, we give up some of that for the red light idle and cool factor.

The 460 Ford I will use for a future project has a roller cam that comes in at 4500, and needs a convertor that is extremely loose. Crane cams told me this cam should never be on the street, but that is where it will probably end up. I know all the things about how a smaller cam would be more sensible, and probably faster, but I am willing to sacrifice that for the idle and image I am after. Besides, a race built 460 will give me more than enough HP regardless of the efficiency level.

We all do this, and put stuff on our rods that compromise HP for image, otherwise we would be building strictly race engines. Who was it, Hernando who said "it is better to look good than to feel good."


Don