Thread: 385 fast burn crate engine 350ci

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yes i did update on the gear it will be a 373.i know im frustating you guys with too many questions. but i do appreciate your help thats for sure. i am no pro in combos nor will i ever be lol. i am just a parts replacer with the correct info i can but anything together but with the help of pros like you.
i feel that no one can accomplish so much by himeslf, unless he has torn that puppy down several times to get it right.if you have on the first shot and with no ones help then good for you. i know i cant so im sorry to fustrate you guys.and i will be using a 6spd tranny the only thing i changed was the gear. i thought it was a 4:56 i was wrong after swaping it out last week.its been a while since ive toyed around with my old monte carlo.

Junior,

What we've been trying to say is that first time builders think the way to go is to find the biggest cam they can fit. Often that doesn't give the best horsepower in the range you want to drive. A fairly heavy car on the street that only pulls hard from 3500 - 7000 RPM isn't much fun to drive and it eats gas. You get the lumpy idle, but you can't get away from the light as fast as one of our little rice-burner friends. If you try to get "up on the cam" you just fry the tires.

My advice would be to use the FB engine with the Hot Cam. You'll have excellent performance with reasonable street manners. Think about the early muscle cars. Very few of them could compete with a 440 HP engine.

Again, I'm not bagging on your choice. It's just that I've been there and done that - and so have a lot of my friends.

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Junior,

What we've been trying to say is that first time builders think the way to go is to find the biggest cam they can fit. Often that doesn't give the best horsepower in the range you want to drive. A fairly heavy car on the street that only pulls hard from 3500 - 7000 RPM isn't much fun to drive and it eats gas. You get the lumpy idle, but you can't get away from the light as fast as one of our little rice-burner friends. If you try to get "up on the cam" you just fry the tires.

My advice would be to use the FB engine with the Hot Cam. You'll have excellent performance with reasonable street manners. Think about the early muscle cars. Very few of them could compete with a 440 HP engine.

Again, I'm not bagging on your choice. It's just that I've been there and done that - and so have a lot of my friends.

If he does install a larger cam he may be able to "hook-up" the car better because he has moved the torque band up the rpm scale.
With his manual tranny this might work better.

Originally Posted by erik erikson

If he does install a larger cam he may be able to "hook-up" the car better because he has moved the torque band up the rpm scale.
With his manual tranny this might work better.

[QUOTE=Henry Rifle ]Good catch. I just think a .600 lift / 300+ deg cam in a Monte on the street is going to be "interesting" to drive.

ok guys your brains have all the calculations in mind with these two responses. im very slow but when you elaborate a little more ill catch up quick. you wont even know if its the sam idiot that was asking the questions.
ok guys im going to refresh my brain, and refresh your brain with what i have.
and give you two options that im looking at nothing else.this is what i got. which one would the pros choose?
what would HENRY RIFLE AND ERIK ERIKSON choose for there street toy (daily driver)some what daily driver.
put it this way if your other car broke down would this be your back up for the week.

385 create engine 385hp/385tq
1987 montecarlo ss weight 3600-pound
3:73 rear gear / with a 6spd out of a camaro

what im looking at are two cams
hot cam durration I: 2 18 E : 2 28 lift I: 5 25 E : 5 25/w "1.6 Rocker" 112

other cam
12370847 = durration I: 2 34 E : 2 4 2 lift I: 539" E : 558"/w1.5 rockers 112
please read carefully i want to add the 1.6 rockers to this cam which will give me a higher lift
being max lift with 1.6 rockers added instead of 1.5 rockers will be 0.575" / 0.595 (w/1.6 ratio rocker

which out of these two are yall recomending because i got confused on the (.600 lift / 300+ deg cam) stated by henry.. thanks guys for putting up with me

[QUOTE=junior2]

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Good catch. I just think a .600 lift / 300+ deg cam in a Monte on the street is going to be "interesting" to drive.

ok guys your brains have all the calculations in mind with these two responses. im very slow but when you elaborate a little more ill catch up quick. you wont even know if its the sam idiot that was asking the questions.
ok guys im going to refresh my brain, and refresh your brain with what i have.
and give you two options that im looking at nothing else.this is what i got. which one would the pros choose?
what would HENRY RIFLE AND ERIK ERIKSON choose for there street toy (daily driver)some what daily driver.
put it this way if your other car broke down would this be your back up for the week.

385 create engine 385hp/385tq
1987 montecarlo ss weight 3600-pound
3:73 rear gear / with a 6spd out of a camaro

what im looking at are two cams
hot cam durration I: 2 18 E : 2 28 lift I: 5 25 E : 5 25/w "1.6 Rocker" 112

other cam
12370847 = durration I: 2 34 E : 2 4 2 lift I: 539" E : 558"/w1.5 rockers 112
please read carefully i want to add the 1.6 rockers to this cam which will give me a higher lift
being max lift with 1.6 rockers added instead of 1.5 rockers will be 0.575" / 0.595 (w/1.6 ratio rocker

which out of these two are yall recomending because i got confused on the (.600 lift / 300+ deg cam) stated by henry.. thanks guys for putting up with me

You remind me of myself about 15+ years ago.
It is very difficult to put "daily driver" and "street toy" together in the same sentence.
I do this for a living so it makes it even worse for me.
I think the second cam is to large to think you might have to drive for a week.
Also your gear ratio really is a little weak for the cam, in other you need a 4.10 or more gear to make it work correctly.
I would go with the smaller cam in your combo.
With the smaller cam everything sould work together very well.

Good catch. I just think a .600 lift / 300+ deg cam in a Monte on the street is going to be "interesting" to drive.

Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Good catch. I just think a .600 lift / 300+ deg cam in a Monte on the street is going to be "interesting" to drive.

intresting meaning to much for what i want. or intresting as in bad boy in the streets but cant be streetable? im spining my little brain here lol

I would do the hot cam with the FB385, 1.6 rockers. "Interesting" ( with respect to the big cam) means I wouldn't want to drive it regularly on the street.

thanks henry i respect your choice. i have never had anything obove 400hp on the street so i dont really know what it feels like. i ran the 385 with a 350 tranny and a regular torque convertor and 3:73 gear and it felt really good.
havent ran a 6spd tranny at all on the street on the mc. ive droven stick but not with 385hp. so at this point any info is very appreciated. im in no hurry to jump into something i wont like but i do want to be able to out run my oponent in the street if it came to it. i am going to start building the engine
hopefully in feb.there wont be much to do to it other than the heads and cam. and assemble together. and depending on the cam i might do a jr intake?
questionable at this point.my decission is in the hands of the pros. now i wait for ERIK ERIKSON choice. i will take both in consideration. its going to be a hard choice for me unless it comes down to one cam. thanks guys

and depending on the cam i might do a jr intake?

Junior,

If you're referencing the Edelbrock Victor Jr there, I'd re-think that one also. That manifold works from 3500 RPM up - a mismatch unless you're going with the big cam. With the FB385 and the Hot Cam, the Performer RPM Air Gap is a better fit.

Remember that an engine (and in a larger sense the whole car) is a system - not just a collection of parts. They need to fit together, or they start working against each other.

Henry is right,a motor that runs well is built for a purpose and all of the parts go together for that purpose.A massive carb on a stock engine ....performance goes down,high rpm manifold{single plane} on a stock motor...performance goes down.Huge cam ,stock motor performance goes down.......now take those parts and use the proper heads and short block ,with the proper gearing,etc..and you have a good motor.

High rpm and big cam durations are for the track or some one who likes to fiddle with the engine ALL the time,if you want the car to pull hard and be fun to drive on the street and idle,leave the big cams and the high rpm intakes on the shelf.Compression ratio and head flow make horsepower,the rest of the parts have to match those 2 figures.

Take what you have now ,find the compression ratio and head flow numbers and let that tell you what cam you need,then you take the cam spec,which tells you the operating range or rpm range and dynamic compression and then select a intake that matches those specs.Then use max rpm and cubic inches to figure size of carb,since you are building a street ride,you should use a vac secondary carb.

If that seems like alot to figure, then do exactly what henry said and get the hot cam ,any larger of a cam and the rpm that the motor starts to pull at goes up.{example} From a dead stop the smaller cam pulls harder and sooner in the rpm range of 1000 rpm to 6000 rpm,the smaller cam will pull hard from about 1500-2000 rpm up,the large cam will not start to pull until well above 3800-4200 rpm.That gives you 4500 rpm of pull before you have to shift with the small cam and about 2000 rpm of pull before you have to shift with the big cam.
Soo what does this all mean...?
It means the motor with the small cam will pull away from the same motor with the big cam off the line and the big cam motor will have to play catch up when it hits about 3800 and starts to pull,meanwhile the motor with the small cam is starting to lose some power to the big cam as the rpm approches 6000 .Keep in mind the small cam motor will achieve this rpm faster since it starts pulling sooner in the rpm range and therefore reaches max rpm faster than a big cam motor,Repeat for second gear and by this time you are well above any posted speed limit and will have to or need to shut it down.
The track only deal is alot different story,this is where you can use high rpms and a big cam by taking advantage of a large stall speed or manual tranny and big gears 4.88 or larger to keep the motor in its rpm band of 4000 to 6000 and now with the matching parts the big cam starts to show its stuff and get with it,while the motor with the small gears 3.73 and smaller cam,will show its weakness of small rear gear and lower rpm range in this high rpm enviroment,but will be way way better on the street than the big gear big cam motor.

This is not the only way to look at it and there are definatly exceptions to any rule ,but this should help you better understand the technical advice you are recieving and how motors and parts are working in unison to accomplish the same goal by being built for the same purpose.You just cant bolt on a nascar intake and be the fastest ......the rest of the parts have to match or...... you have done the opposite of what you bought the intake for ,which was more power.Same thing with the rest of the parts they need to match existing parts or they will do you no good at all ,infact they will actually lower current performance.

thanks guys for the info. i have a friend that has a trans am running 550hp at flywheel. its 85hp more than what i want and his car is streetable.its a daily driver to his job.man this car has no traction without the slicks. he took me for a test run just around the block and its very fast.here is a link to a camaro running the 12370847 cam in it. its sounds good but i think his exhaust seem to be to small. i dont know camaros always sound funny at the tail pipes.here is the link http://www.madz28.com/chris847.mpg . does anyone have a sound clip of the hot cam. and at what hp?

Originally Posted by junior2

I have a friend that has a trans am running 550hp at flywheel.

You're confused,... that is a Z28, now why don't you telling a TA owner that. It even says, Mad Z 28.

Originally Posted by TyphoonZR

You're a f'in idiot, Str**ts,... that is a Z28, now why don't you fly away! It even says, Mad Z 28.
Yeah, I have a sound clip, email me at.... wetdreamscumtrue@hotcams.cum

whats this all about all i did was post a link to the z28 ok so i called it a camaro sorry. i was just letting some peeps know what it sounds like with the
12370847 cam in it thats all.

Everything you need is somewhere in this thread. Good luck.