EPA approves more ethanol in gas

It’s a whole different set of circumstances out here Dave.

For instance we don’t see a really big difference in E85 vs regular grade gas. In Tucson right now $2.57 for regular and $2.47 for E85 (remember the E85 has to be shipped here from the mid west). Reduction in fuel mileage on a non-high compression engine far outweighs any fuel cost savings.

Then we also have extreme temperatures in the summer with days of over 100 degree temps (low pressure fuel systems and E anything fuel does not really like that too much). On top of that we are also at 4500 feet above sea level which also contributes to the summertime heat issues with ethanol. Then in the winter time it’s nothing for me to go out and start the car in 15 degree temperatures (E10 doesn’t start as well but not enough to really complain about).

Then add to that I try to set the cars up to also be capable of going from here to the mid west (home town is 200 foot above sea level) with carburetor(s) and a distributor and it can be interesting.

That’s pretty much my reality,, I don't like all of it, but it is what it is and we deal with it.

I do understand what you are saying about the ethanol fuels. A few years back I took my 57 Dodge (iron head 10:1 compression 440) back for a visit. Seems like the Ethanol hi grade was 92-93 octane, that combined with the heavier air with a bit of moisturein it and cooler temperatures made the car seem like it had 50 more HP.

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Wow, almost sounds like the problem would be with the base fuel before the ethanol is added, Mike.... All the weird problems you're encountering with carbs has never been an issue around here with E-10--and as I stated been running it in a very wide variety of cars for better then 20 years!!!! Any of the problems with ethanol came when the stations were dumping ethanol fuel into their old tanks, and the ethanol loosened the crud inside the tanks.......

Shame on no E-85 around there, sure is a blast running a bunch of compression again in a street toy!!!! There's an ethanol plant about 15 miles from here...rumor has it that occasionally a drum or two of 100% disappears.... Our "home brew" E-90 does better then 106 octane!!!!

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Dave, I'm curious what you mean by "home brew". Can you explain? I have a 12.5 to 1 big block chevy I aquired a while ago and would love to run it on the street. Also I have been reading on E15 and the discussions on how corrosive it is and how it eats into the resin in poly tanks. What are your thoughts on this?...Thanks CR

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Originally Posted by CR55

Dave, I'm curious what you mean by "home brew". Can you explain? I have a 12.5 to 1 big block chevy I aquired a while ago and would love to run it on the street. Also I have been reading on E15 and the discussions on how corrosive it is and how it eats into the resin in poly tanks. What are your thoughts on this?...Thanks CR

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Dave,
That statement piqued my curiosity, too, and I hope you will explain a bit about what you guys are doing to squeeze more btu's out of the fuel.

For me the key is not what can be done to make things work, it is that the average Joe/Jane out there is buying a pig in a poke. Sure, you can buy E85 for $0.50 less per gallon, but in that average car, even one set up for E85 like the wife's Jeep is, will take a 15-20% mileage hit which equalizes or often more than offsets the "savings" of buying the E85. Costs less, but you buy more of it more often and in the long run the average Joe/Jane is spending more money for every mile but they never check mileage, or don't understand the math:confused:. Now, if a person has compelling reasons for running E85, like they believe it is better for the environment, better for their local economy, or perhaps they have found ways to offset some or all of the mileage hit by boosting compression, etc then that is a personal choice. One question that comes to my mind is what a person does if they have that modified engine and they travel across the country, hitting states/areas where their "home" fuel is not available? I would think that the engine modified to maximize power output on E85 is going to detonate like crazy on 100% pump gas, even 91 octane which slows the burn to inhibit detonation/allow more compression.

So now, about "home brew"????

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Originally Posted by CR55

Dave, I'm curious what you mean by "home brew". Can you explain? I have a 12.5 to 1 big block chevy I aquired a while ago and would love to run it on the street. Also I have been reading on E15 and the discussions on how corrosive it is and how it eats into the resin in poly tanks. What are your thoughts on this?...Thanks CR

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Strictly high compression stuff, figured if 85% was 104 octane, 90% would be higher octane, don't give a rip about Joe average travelling state to state, btu's, efficiency or anything else, we do it for just pure old horsepower!!!!

First, you need access to 100% ethanol, then some pump E85 and a fuel check hydrometer to get your percentage correct...We had help with a Professor from SDSU who's big on ethanol research to get the initial mix correct...but with the product we have available here we can "home brew" pump E85 to E90, load in all the compression we want, then either a top end timing retard or some water-alcohol injection and do, as I said 500 horse at the wheels on a 460 with good heads, roller cam, and (on mine) 12.5 CR....and do it for around $2.00 a gallon.

Never have tried a poly tank, we use aluminum fuel cells, though the plastic RCI tank in the Comet has been there since day one, come to think of it! When the car is going to be parked for more then a couple days, I drain the tank and dump in a gallon of premium gas, run it long enough to get it through all the carb passages, then shut it off. When it's time to go drive the car again, by the time the engine is up to temp, the gas is gone and I'm back on E90. Same procedure worked great years ago when I ran stuff on methanol.... All the cars have aluminum lines and braided hose for the fuel system, carbs are done by Andy (see the link for the shop in Watertown). No idea about fuel mileage or anything like that, no reason to check it for my purposes!!!!

Don't know what's available in other parts of the country, we just took what we could get hold of locally and modified it to work for us.... I'm just out to go fast, not resolve political issues, world hunger, or reinvent some formula for BTU's that has little, if any, significance on how fast I can get to the end of the quarter, or whoop up on the boys Saturday night on the street... I'm just a dumb old Hot Rodder, guess I'll leave the rest of it to the scientist's and politicians!!!!

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Originally Posted by rspears

Dave,
That statement piqued my curiosity, too, and I hope you will explain a bit about what you guys are doing to squeeze more btu's out of the fuel.

For me the key is not what can be done to make things work, it is that the average Joe/Jane out there is buying a pig in a poke. Sure, you can buy E85 for $0.50 less per gallon, but in that average car, even one set up for E85 like the wife's Jeep is, will take a 15-20% mileage hit which equalizes or often more than offsets the "savings" of buying the E85. Costs less, but you buy more of it more often and in the long run the average Joe/Jane is spending more money for every mile but they never check mileage, or don't understand the math:confused:. Now, if a person has compelling reasons for running E85, like they believe it is better for the environment, better for their local economy, or perhaps they have found ways to offset some or all of the mileage hit by boosting compression, etc then that is a personal choice. One question that comes to my mind is what a person does if they have that modified engine and they travel across the country, hitting states/areas where their "home" fuel is not available? I would think that the engine modified to maximize power output on E85 is going to detonate like crazy on 100% pump gas, even 91 octane which slows the burn to inhibit detonation/allow more compression.

So now, about "home brew"????

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Nothing personal Rog, but I just don't give a rip about Joe average travelling across the states and getting whatever he gets for fuel... Just what works right here in beautiful downtown Madison, SD. As mentioned in the previous post, had a Professor from SDSU dial us in on getting the fuel to 90% ethanol, pump 85 blened with 100% direct from an ethanol plant....

When I travel across country, the car is in the trailer and the toter is a diesel, no problems. We take our fuel with us for racing. I'm not suggesting that what we do will work in every locale or every situation, just that if it's high octane, costs considerably less then race gas, a good Hot Rodder or racer will, perhaps with some help, figure out how to make it work for him!!!

For those who want to travel cross country and brag about their fuel mileage or cost per gallon, I don't have a clue what would work, and to be quite honest don't even care!!! My diesel does just fine and I have a 2 year old Featherlight trailer for travelling.

My personal experience with 10% ethanol fuels on the street for daily drivers is great, been running it for 20 years in a whole host of different cars with nothing more then normal maintenance... Suppose I'm just lucky....

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Nothing personal Rog, but I just don't give a rip about Joe average travelling across the states and getting whatever he gets for fuel... Just what works right here in beautiful downtown Madison, SD. As mentioned in the previous post, had a Professor from SDSU dial us in on getting the fuel to 90% ethanol, pump 85 blened with 100% direct from an ethanol plant....

When I travel across country, the car is in the trailer and the toter is a diesel, no problems. We take our fuel with us for racing. I'm not suggesting that what we do will work in every locale or every situation, just that if it's high octane, costs considerably less then race gas, a good Hot Rodder or racer will, perhaps with some help, figure out how to make it work for him!!!

For those who want to travel cross country and brag about their fuel mileage or cost per gallon, I don't have a clue what would work, and to be quite honest don't even care!!! My diesel does just fine and I have a 2 year old Featherlight trailer for travelling.

My personal experience with 10% ethanol fuels on the street for daily drivers is great, been running it for 20 years in a whole host of different cars with nothing more then normal maintenance... Suppose I'm just lucky....

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Nothing personal taken, Dave. My response is directed at the original post that started this thread, which related that our politicians are looking at approving even more of an ethanol dose in our day to day fuel. You are looking at a pure racing application, which is apples and oranges to me. In my mind this ethanol blend fuel is not a good thing, but truth is not being communicated. I do not like to look through wool - it clouds my outlook. ;)

As I've previously mentioned when this subject came up on earlier threads, I am NOT a fan of ethanol in gas..................I saw too many fuel related problems in the boating industry I came out of as ethanol became introduced into customers fuel systems. Problems like eating up fuel tanks (both aluminum and poly), and components in the rest of the system deteriorating prematurely or clogging up.

Just the other night I bought a car from a guy who sells motorcycles for a living, high end pocket rocket type bikes. He was telling me they are having fits with ethanol warping the tanks on their bikes, and some of the tanks cost $ 2500.00 to replace. :eek: These bikes are made in other countries where ethanol is not used, and as a concession the manufacturers are offering a $1200.00 rebate on new tanks to help out........but that still leaves $ 1300.00 the bike owner must absorb. He said he knows of one gas station in the area that sells straight gas and he drives 30 miles each way to fill up for that reason.

Just found that interesting and thought I'd pass this along.


Don

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Originally Posted by Mike P

I knew it was coming, just didn't know when. It will be interesting to see how it actually plays out.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/EPA-ap...95536.html?x=0

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I went to this website and was able to leave my 2 cents, this stuff is destroying everything I own with an engine.

The EPA monster must be stopped.

--and in 2011 all 3 NASCAR Divisions will be running 15% ethanol.....

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

--and in 2011 all 3 NASCAR Divisions will be running 15% ethanol.....

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...and they'll be making more pit stops...