To-Qwk, you're FUNNY.:LOL: :LOL:
I can't even remember when my hormones did any raging! Is that old or what? ;) ;) :o
Perley
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To-Qwk, you're FUNNY.:LOL: :LOL:
I can't even remember when my hormones did any raging! Is that old or what? ;) ;) :o
Perley
Hey Truckenstien, I got friends up there in Moncton! IT Cycle shop. And others! Yep, do have some friends! **) :3dSMILE:
OK friends, back from Daughter's after a week, good to be home!:)
Here is next chapter of build. Thanks for all of the support. The Model A spring I had was too long for the front axle, as I mentioned before. So a friend gave me a spring from a Mobile Home. It was 26" eye to eye, perfect. I stripped it down, painted it, shifted some leaves around, left one out, then put it back together. I then cut the eyes off the Model A spring to make ends for the newer spring, but after a fashion I decided to order some pre-made ones from Speedway. I also got shackles and such, as well as some clevis' and heim joint rod ends etc.. Like Christmas come early, gift to myself. haaa:p
Then the batwings, thanks Mentor for the pics, advice, etc.!!!
Here is a trial fit of parts.
Man, what a job to get 'thinking outside the box'. I was a plumber/tradesman for many years, did well at fabricating in that line, but this is an all new trick. Hard to get my brain heading in other directions! Enjoy! Perley:)
Here are a few more pics of the spring issue. :D
And a few more---------for those who love photos!!!!:HMMM:
As you might notice, In the end I made my own spring shackles for various reasons, even though I had nice new ones from Speedway. Some of the reasons: holes didn't fit bolts, bolts didn't fit spring eyes, spring eyes too difficult to rebush, new shackles bolts too small. UGH. Steep learning curve. :rolleyes:
Here are more pics from the frame build, interior crossmembers (K members) whatever---And more pics of moving from work 'garage' to shop where welder is (was)! :whacked:
Man, am I glad that is in the past. Most of this stuff causes me a lot of head scratching. Just feel my way along! Sometimes right (good) sometimes wrong (take it apart, redo it). All part of the learning curve, I guess:rolleyes:
And at the 'weld' shop! Here is a pic of the combo steering box brackett/clamp, plate. Lots of the things I come up with I've seen on other builds throughout the interim. This plate (3/8" thick) came from the one that Don (I told you so) did on his Dodge Rat. The cradle affair came from another build I found. I save pics of things I think I can use in my document file, then use them as needed! I'm a wicked pirate! :toocool: :p
And more pics of our welding the previously fitted frame parts together, and the rest of the front (model A frame) boxing plates. I welded a spot here, a spot there, skipped around, until at last I had them completely welded. I know, I know you purists (perfectionists) better builders, etc., will shudder to see me flop this frame back and forth, welding without any hold-down clamps, frame tables, etc. But --------- we do what we have to do. I am pretty careful to measure, eyeball, triangulate, etc., to try to keep things aligned etc. But if I waited until I had the perfect setup, I'd never NEVER get it done, so -------- be it as it may. I may not live long enough to see it on the road anyways, I may junk it all before I get it that far, I may get discouraged - I may - I may!!!!! :whacked:
But I am keeping it safe (IMHO) regardless.
Here is a pic of one of the motor mounts in. I will show more pics of making the mounts in another segment. And in general, welding in previously cut, fitted, tacked parts. **) :cool:
I Like pictures only because it 's easier than reading.......lol
BradC
I made the motor mounts from 2 x 3 box tube frame side and 2 x 1 channel for the motor side. I cut 1/4" triangular flat plate to fit the bolt pattern on the motor block then welded the channel to these at right angles, bored holes in both parts to match and to fit the rubber isolators (from Speedway). In the pics you probably notice I had two sections of 2 x 2 box tube cut on a long angle, these were made for the motor side mounts first, but I was concerned about the thin sections of the box so changed to the channel. The bolt 'nubs' on the side of the engine block were even on the passenger side, but the driver side had the top one slightly shorter than the other two, so I cut a piece of pipe to use on over the bolt as a bushing or standoff. You might notice that in one of the pictures if you are looking.:whacked:
43 frame is coming along and some good work . I dont think i would ever challenge this degree of building but to modify that i would attempt . I'm like you i store ideas to help me in the future also.
Let's try some pics again.* Couldn't get them to upload before. HOORAY! Its works again. Thanks Big Guys! :o:)
Thanks for the kind words and the support BobbyD. I am glad you are enjoying the build. I am too, twice, once doing it and again in putting on the posts. Regards, Perley
It's great to have this Forum Site, is it not? Thanks Mr. Mustang and any helpers you have. :):):)
Here are shots of the bell housing I bought on ebay. Pics show the crack that came with it, no charge!!!! :(:CRY:
I emailed the seller and he/she got beligerant, said it must have happened in shipping! Yeah, RIGHT. And the break got grease in it from the nasty Postal Workers too............. Well, not too bad, it'll work for me. I can get it fixed of course, just money. :eek::LOL:
And a TEASER here, a BIG jump ahead to a view of the body sitting on the frame. Still got to do a lot inside and make the tranny mount solid, but it's great to get a look at it this far along! I won't say more at this point, spoil Christmas-----haahaaaa:LOL:
And last shot here a picture of the front radius rod mounts.
Here are shots of fabricating the rear bat wings and coil spring mounts. Again, thanks to BrianAngus for the design as shown earlier in posts. He has posted an excellent thread on building a hot rod frame, do a search and you'll find it. If not let me know and I'll find the link.
I gave up on the 'gas axe' (oxy-acyt) and have been using my sabre saw with metal blades. I use a LOT of them. Thanks Home Depot. haaahaa:LOL:
I made a poster board pattern to fit the design and all then traced around it onto the 1/4" plate steel. Then used a hole saw in my electric drill to do the cut that fits around the rear axle. Then I sawed out the rest with sabre saw (and several blades). They do well until you pinch them going around corners, then they get hot and lose their temper! Me?? Well, I lose mine too, but I'm mellowing with age.........like fine wine:whacked:
Enjoy. Perley
More pics of the rear batwings and coil spring mounts. The springs came from an ebay buy, from a Geo Metro. Seem to be plenty strong. And a pic of the batwings ready to weld on the axle. I had previously ground off the old leaf spring mounts and ground the rust off the axle. I used a piece of 2 x 2 box tubing for spacers for where the rear radius rods will go afterwards. And a shot of them welded on. Perley
Whoops, first mistake I've made all month-year! haahaaaa. Yeah, RIGHT. :p
I got a shot in there of a front axle bat wing welded on without explanation. And the 2 x 2 box tubing was not a spacer for the radius rods, but rather for the coil spring mounts to sit on and weld to.:HMMM:
haahaa. I've got PLENTY of pictures folks, hope you don't get sore about so many. I looked at LOTS of others' pictures (and still do) and I loved it, learned much more than just text (talk). **)
Pics of the front batwings welded on (one of which was in last post). A shot of my rather primitive conditions where the welder is (was)! But it works! and the coil spring cups. These were made from pieces of (big) truck exhaust pipe that I bought at a local Auto Parts Store. Sliced sections 2 inches long with my Chop Saw. I won't show how I did it and I don't advocate that anyone else do it. As they say, you only get one set of fingers. :o And a shot of the front axle in place with the spring (from a mobile home) mounted to the home made bat wings. These were made based on a photo of some from parts books and refined to fit the I beam axle. Again, thanks to my Mentor for the help. :)
The next group of pictures shows fabricating the radius rods, thanks to my Mentor again for the design and such (pirated from his build thread) that is shown and described on J. Robinson's EXCELLENT build thread on his Track Style T. Here is a link http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30400
I got a lot of Inspiration, Instruction, Ideas, and Confidence from this build and from Don Itoldyouso's build on his T bucket. Also a top notch build thread. Don and Son Dan are top drawer builders, and Son Don Jr. does pretty well too. Dan is just a tad fussy about things!!:rolleyes::LOL::LOL:
Here is a link to his build thread. http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23618
First shot is of the end of one of the radius rods prepared for the threaded end. I cross drilled holes to enable me to plug weld the inserts. The ends were modified Rod Coupling Nuts that I found at a local Building Supply firm. Caution here!! At first I bought some from Home Depot (cheap too), but then (just in time) found out from my Mentor that the thread pitch was wrong for the Rod Ends I would use. These coupling nuts were 3/8" x 18 T.P.I. when in fact I needed 3/8" x 20 tpi. These cost me considerably more from a Hardware type Building Supply Store. sigh :(
These nuts were ground down on my bench grinder, because I didn't have a lathe to do it with. It wasn't any great chore, and not like they needed to be PRECISION or anything! :o Just a few turns on each made them fit into the pipe ends. J. Robinson shows this on his build thread and describes it very well. After that I welded them through the holes and around the projecting portion of the end. Be careful like I wasn't, because it's hell to clean up the threads after you booger them up from welding. Also, the first one I did I put a bolt in a few threads to protect the internal threads, then found that I had welded the bolt in--------------:o:o
Yah, I make a lot of mistakes!!:p
The front radius rods were done the same way as the rear, that is, holes drilled in the ends of the pipe, rod couplings ground down with bench grinder, inserted in pipe and welded. The lower member of the assembly was bent by putting the pipe end over the spring brackett on a truck with the end under a brace and putting a little of my ### pounds on it. :p Worked like a charm. Second one was done same way and held the first up beside it frequently while bending to make sure they were EXACTLY the same! Yeah, RIGHT. :whacked:
I then cut the short end off to a suitable length, ground it out to fit over the top member, then in due time, welded them on. Before this happens, on many installations, you need to ascertain that the front axle leans back the proper amount of inclination for Caster Setting Angle. On mine, the way the spring mounts are hooked to the batwings gives me the ability to tilt the axle independantly of the radius rods, so although I did adjust them some, it was not so critical. The front ends, top and bottom got clevis rod ends while the single back end got heim type rod ends. These came in my Speeway order mentioned before. I also placed jamb nuts on the shanks before threading them into their respective threaded coupling nut inserts. And a shot of the mounting pads, or bracketts that I attached the back end of these to. I calculated things so that the steering arm from the steering box would hang directly over the radius rod mount on the driver side. This is supposed to stop bump steer somewhat. :HMMM: Again, the plate for the steering box mount design was based loosely on the Dodge Rat that (itoldyouso) Don (donsrods) is building. :D It is made from 3/8" plate. Perley
BradC, yuk yuk yuk. I know, I still remember the baby books I used to 'read' to my Children, the ones that didn't have words, JUST PICTURES. Perley
Keep it comin' Perley, I'm really enjoying your build.:D:D Aren't your rod ends 1/2" instead of 3/8"?:HMMM:
For those who don't know, common rod ends are available ONLY in fine threads.;)
This is the last one for tonight folks. Old and tired. Riding that old truck all day makes me weary and lame (and very sleepy).
Here are shots of the cut pieces of truck exhaust pipe used as coil spring cups for the rear suspension. A picture of my little desk area where I draw and cut poster board (file folder) patterns for my parts. Mock up of parts for front radius rods. A shot of the bat wings, radius rods, spring, and all for the front axle, suspension, etc. Notice too the tight fit of the tie rod to the spring shackles, bolts, etc., which I should have corrected before, but didn't. I have moments when I'm like a bull. CHARGE! heeeheee:o
Perley;)
Hello Jim. It do get confusing at times, say what?? haahaa.
Yep, the rear radius rod heim joint rod ends are 5/8", you are right, in 3/4" pipe!
But the front ones are all 3/8" in 1/2" pipe, same as your T. clevis on the front (bat wing connections) and heim type on the rear. hmmmmm, I THINK I got that right! RIGHT? Perley
Hey Perley,
Me thinks the right front tire is wearing just a bit on the inside....:HMMM::D:D:D
Nice work, stick with it, I am having fun just cruising along with ya :)
Wow, here is another mistake, all in one week. UGH. I gotta pay more attention (it's all I can afford)!
Anyways, my Mentor pointed out that the front radius rod ends are NOT
3/8", but rather 1/2". As he says, 3/8" ain't heavy enough to be safe. Please take note of this. Front radius rod ends are indeed 1/2 inch x 20 T.P.I. and are inserted in the same size rod couplings inside 1/2" black pipe.
And to toqwk............Man, I didn't think anyone would notice that front tire! :LOL::LOL::LOL: When I get rich, I'll buy some good ones------------
Perley
Pictures of the bracketts for the radius rods and a picture of the frame showing the coil spring mounts on the frame. This is not a good picture, but I guess I didn't get a good one. They are peices of 1/4" plate with a slice of the truck exhaust pipe, like on the axle, welded to it, then welded into the rear corners of the frame. Added a small triangular gusset to the top to add strength. These locations correspond to the locations on the rear axle for the opposing sides. This idea came from the build thread of brianruppnow or Brian Angus on How to build a Hot Rod Frame that I mentioned previously and from pictures on his gallery. Told ya I'm a pirate! :rolleyes: And a couple of shots of drilling holes in the motor mounts for the rubber mount kit from Speedway. Perley
I then turned the frame upside down on my work horses (metal kind):LOL: and lifted the rear axle up onto the upside down frame. Propped it up with wood blocks and clamped it to keep it in position. After a bit I cut two pieces of 1/2" pipe at what I think to be ride height of the coil springs, inserted those between the upper and lower coil mounts, then cut pieces of 3/8" threaded rod, pushed these through holes drilled in the coil mount plates with the pipe spacers in place, then a nut on each end of each rod. I then started fabricating the rear radius rods and the mounts on the bottom of the frame members for them. I measured the engine/transmission assembly and transferred that measure to the frame from the motor mounts previously welded into the frame. That showed me where the forward universal joint would be (or close) at the transmission output end. The front R/R bracketts are pretty close to this point. I have read that the best position for the mount ends of the Radius Rods should be close together and near the universal joint. This is the approximate center of the pivot for the rear axle in riding over bumps etc. I didn't think I had the patience to cut and fit individual plate mounting pieces for the front mounts, so I cut two sections of 1 1/2 inch sqare tube (guessed/eyeballed the length) and then sliced out one side of these tube pieces. These I stood on end and held in place with welding magnets while cutting and fitting the radius rods. Notice that the rod ends are somewhat narrower than the square tube. That's ok, I'll bush the extra space with washers or something! :3dSMILE:
More photos folks!!!! :rolleyes:
And yes, the rear axle was very heavy! I managed it by lifting first one side then the other side, kind of levering it up onto the frame. Since my Grandson turned 18 his interest (in hot rods) has waned some, leaving me to do most of these things alone. I truly miss his involvement and tell him so too.:(
Here are more photos of the rear radius rod assembly and fabrication. One thing I should mention is that during previous mock-ups of various parts and wholes, I determined the angle of the rear pinion that would match the transmission output shaft. I measured this with an inclinometer that I got at Sears. Not a very expensive tool I may add. For now the lower portions of the radius rod sets are only tack welded to produce this pinion angle. Later on, after permanently mounting the axle and the engine tranny combo on their respective mounts, I will measure everything again, make any needed adjustments, then weld these radius rod parts together for good. CLEAR??:cool: haahaaa.:LOL:
That last photo shows the end of one of the rear radius rods. For further clarification of this and the hows and whys, please see the Track T build thread of J. Robinson, mentioned earlier, along with a link to it. He has been a Godsend for me, my Mentor and new friend, even though we are on opposite ends of the map of the States. Florida -- Maine. heehee:)
He has taken time to answer innumberable (dumb) questions via email, been patient in explaining, sending email photos and the like. Excellent and knowledgeable help. Thanks again Friend Jim. :):)
More photos showing the radius rod ends and bushing material. Heavy duty 1/2" heater hose! And showing the difference between the top and bottom member (ends) of the radius rod ends. These are at the rear or axle ends. His reasoning is that on a hard launch one is put in compression while the other is put in tension. The compression end will take care of itself by only welding the end on, while the tension end needs a strap wrap and welding to insure that these don't pull apart. One thing I like particularly about my Mentor is his ingenuity about making do with what he has and invent what he needs from it. 'Fabrication Skill'. Rather than just go buy something, he prefers to engineer it and build it to fit. GREAT for keeping costs down tooooo. :toocool: Perley
And a few more. By the way, if any of this fails to make sense to anyone reading/watching, please let me know, I have hundreds more pictures and I can add more explanations if needed. Perley
Not to Hi-Jack....:HMMM: but J Robinson has already been a help to me and I have not been around here very long. He has taken the time to answer and help me with some of my questions by e-mail and truly is a big help to guy's on a budget that just want to do it themselves.....Thanks Jim....:D
Sorry Mr. Perley........ :HMMM:...... back to the story at hand......:D
Glad to have you jump in TO-QWK. Glad to share. And please------No Mr., just Perley.
Perley you and Jim could be putting out a few cars a year easy if you were neighbors . You are doing some great tech here specially in the frame build . Keep up the good work .
Thanks for sharing your build! Those photos help brighten up a dark cold winter day here.
Well Bobby D, that sounds like it would be a great happening, BUT--We'd probably kill each other:eek: Cause he'd want to build EVERYTHING, and alll I'd think about is run to the store and buy it! :LOL:;) In truth, man would I ever love to have a chance to work with him for even a few days! I tell you, I've seen his coupe and the in progress Track T, and he is one talented man. Easy to see why he's a teacher. Wish they'd had one of him up here when I was in school. :)
And Larry H, man, I can't imagine COLD, DARK, WINTER DAYS in Kansas. Come to Maine for the winter, we'll show you COLD DARK WINTER, days and nights. And I got extra SNOW SHOVELS. haaahaaaaa**)
Thanks you guys for following along and for the support with nice words and such. Gives one a real morale boost. Perley
You folks probably think I"m some kinda WIZ-BANG or such, seeing this come together in such a few posts and so quick. BUT........we've been well over a year now on it, and at the rate I'm going now and (like everyone else) having holes in my pocket book, it'll still be awhile before it hits the streets. :CRY::o
But in the meantime, I got plenty of pics on my 'puter of what we've done so far. AND---------I got plenty of pics of our OTHER project too. :LOL:
Our in progress '47 Ford effie pick-em-up truck sitting on a chevy S10 chassis with a SBC 350 and 700R4 tranny from my old work van. I've stalled on this one, but still sits there, waiting for me to come back. Steve?? He's for whatever will hit the street the soonest. Man, wish I was eighteen again. haahaaaa:LOL:
So--------Here are some more pictures. Frame back up in garage where the welder isn't..........and axles under it with most of the suspension parts in/on and the motor/tranny sitting in place. I mentioned before that the motor was sitting kinda low, like hitting the top of an ant?????? So, I got a piece of 1 x 3 square tube, cut it to fit, drilled holes, then sat it on top of the existing mounts and tack welded them in. Gives me anther inch clearance under, and still doesn't protrude up through the floor into passenger area. I have made up a U shaped section of 2 x 2 tubing and some pieces of flat plate for hanging it from the K members and to mount the rubber vibration isolator on. The ears for the disconnect bolts are now tack welded in. Some day when we next remove the cab, pull the engine and such, I'll turn the chassis up on it's side and finish welding these ears. I don't do so good upside down welding. :o
And pics showing the tight fit of the spring shackles, nuts, and the tie rod. Like, I'd have to have a loooonnnngg straight highway, 'cause I couldn't turn the wheels but VERY little. haahaa. And a picture of my 'new' twenty dollar tires, this will please TO-QWK. :LOL:
Just need to get the old ones off and mount the new(er) ones. And a shot of the panhard bar assembly. I used a piece of 1 x 2 square tube sticking up off the axle tube with a notch cut in the top edge to allow the panhard and the rod end to sit inside and a bolt through. The other end is hung on a brackett on the inside of the frame directly over the axle. It's as long as I could make it because of the coil spring/radius rod hanger already attached to the axle. This was made just like the front radius rods. 1/2 x 20 coupling nuts ground down, inserted into the ends of a piece of 1/2 inch black pipe that had holes cross drilled, then welded through the holes (plug welded?) and around the very end. Again, better protect those threads------:whacked:
I've always called them a rosette weld, but I reckon plug weld works too. :D
Hey, that sounds like a name I've heard before! heeheee. Thanks TechInspector1. Hope you're enjoying the build and thanks for following along. Perley