Another build thread? Yep, my track-style T

[J. Robinson]

I debated whether to do a thread on this, but Don (Itoldyouso) encouraged me to go ahead with it, so...

For as long as I can remember, I have been infatuated by the old track roadsters that raced on the short tracks of this country in the 40's and early 50's. They were the forerunner of today's sprint cars. I have read both of Don Radbruch's books on the subject which only increased my interest in that type of car. Also, my first ride in a hotrod (about 1960) was in a bobtailed T roadster. So, when my coupe was nearing completion last summer, I decided I wanted to build a roadster. I have had several street rods or hotrods over the years, but never a roadster.

Back in November, I bought a Dave Koorey '23 T-bucket body while I was at the Daytona Turkey Run. I had my choice of the standard T-bucket or, for a few more $$, the one with 6" extended cowl. After sitting in both of them, I opted to go with the extended cowl. I really like Koorey's bodies because they come with a reinforced floor and tunnel already molded in. This seems to add a lot of strength to the body so it holds its shape nicely. Also, assuming I don't have to make any major modifications to the floor, it could save me a lot of work and some time.

[J. Robinson]

Here is a pic of the first hotrod I ever rode in, still owned by the same guy 47 years later. This is Ron Ennis of Bargersville, Indiana and the car that started it all for me. Back in 1960 it had an Oldsmobile engine and was painted red. It has different rear suspension now, a Chevy engine, and is black with flames, but it's still got the original interior it had when Ron and twin brother Don finished it in 1957!

[NTFDAY]

Are you going to do a build similar to Don's (Itoldyouso)? That would be way kewl.

[Hotrod46]

Glad to see another T build project. Don's post is why I posted pics of mine.

That's a good looking body. I can see where an extra 6" would be a good thing. Even with the modifications that have been done to mine, it's still plenty tight in the cockpit. Could be I'm not as thin as I used to be!

Keep us posted and good luck!

Mike

[Itoldyouso]

Fantastic Jim, so glad to see you not only doing the thread, but getting started on the rod. That's a really good looking body.......and IT HAS A TUNNEL
That extra length is going to make a real difference in comfort and I like the looks of it too.

With good friends like we have on this forum, I know your building/posting experience will be as much fun for you as it has been for me. These guys will keep you moving and smiling as you go.

Have fun.


Don

[J. Robinson]

I waffled on what to do ever since I bought the body back in November; should I go with the bobtailed "lakes modified" theme or build a more traditional track roadster. Finally, a couple of weeks ago I decided to go the track roadster route. I e-mailed Dave Koorey and asked him to bring a turtle deck to the spring meet at Daytona. I went up to get it and, while there, I also found a sprint car nose just a few booths away. The following Tuesday, while we were on Spring Break (I'm a school teacher), I finally began construction.

I have built numerous street rod chassis over the last 40 years including at least a dozen T-bucket frames, but they have all been constructed from rectangular tubing. This time I am building the frame completely from round tubing. I am doing this partly because I wanted to do something different, and also partly because this car will be a sort of crossbreed of old track roadster style and more current sprint car technology with a little bit of old altered drag car influence thrown in. As we go along, it will become apparent that I rarely buy anything that I can fabricate myself. I grew up broke and had to learn to do things for myself because I couldn't afford to pay someone else to do it for me. Consequently, I have become a "Jack of all trades". Now I continue to build things because I enjoy doing it. I built my coupe from scratch completely by myself including fabricating the frame, building the walnut-maple-mahogany dash, and wiring; the only thing I didn't do myself was stitch the seat covers (bought them online). This car will be the same - I will build it completely myself and, hopefully, pass on some of the things I do to some of you.

I started by turning the body upside-down so I could get some dimensions off the bottom. Dave Koorey puts some recesses in the floor for his frames to fit into, so I needed to make my frame conform to the recesses. After some sketching on graph paper and determining what I needed, it was off to Lowe's to buy a bunch of black iron pipe in various sizes. Why black iron pipe? It's commonly available everywhere, it's made of mild steel, it has substantial wall thickness, and it welds beautifully. I'll get into some more detail later, but here are a couple of pics to get started. First the frame is upside down on the garage floor where I built it. Next is the frame, body, rearend, and front axle mocked up to check proportions.

[Itoldyouso]

Great idea doing the tube frame, and the mockup you have done looks right on. I have always liked the turtle deck ones too, and you see far fewer of them.


You also aren't messing around and are making progress........that's it, I gotta get to the shop and do something myself or you will be driving yours and I will be watching you go by.

Looks great.


Don

[Dreamin' Mike]

That's a real work of art. I also like the turtle deck. Which engine are you going to use?

[J. Robinson]

Thanks for the compliments, Don and Mike. The mock up pic makes it look like I'm a lot farther along than I really am...

I built some wood supports to hold the frame off the floor (visible in the pic above) at the intended ride height (5" front; 7" rear). Then I set the body in place, rolled the front and rear axles into their respective locations, and propped the nose piece up where it should go. The front axle location is pretty much dictated by circumstances. Using my coupe's engine bay as a standard, I need about 31" between the firewall and the radiator. I added 3" to that for radiator and spring clearance and made the frame so that it extends 34" from the firewall. The axle is positioned in front of the frame so it clears by about 1/2" (The tie rod passes under the frame rails). I moved the rear end back and forth until I was happy with the overall proportions and finally measured the approximate wheelbase. It will be about 97 inches.

The next step is to get the front and rear axles mounted. I suppose there are many ways to approach the problem, but I like to get the radius rods built and in place to keep things "located" before I start fabricating the spring perches. On this car, since I am after a classic track roadster look, I am going to use traditional Kurtis "hairpin" style radius rods on the front. I could buy them from Speedway for $159 each plus rod ends, but I can make them for about $25 for the pair, plus rod ends. That leaves me more $$$ to spend elsewhere and the cheaper I can do this, the quicker I can progress on the overall project.

To begin fabricating the radius rods, I cut 4 pieces of 3/4 in. OD tubing (1/2" black iron pipe) about 6" - 8" longer than the intended final length. In this case, I cut 4 pieces 40" long (one piece was longer, but I just left it for later). Next, I bent one end of each piece to about a 60 degree angle. (For the bends, I used a pipe bender I bought at Harbor Freight, but I have done this before using an old v-belt pulley clamped in a vise.)

Next, I set my nifty tubing notcher to about 22 degrees, clamped the scrap end of the tubes in the notcher (see pic), and cut them off with a 7/8" hole saw. The challenge was trying to cut them all in the same place. It's mostly a matter of "calibrated eyeball" and using the first one to gauge the others. After they were all cut off on the bent end and deburred, I lined them all up side-by-side on the floor with the bent end against the bottom of my workbench and marked them to be cut off to the desired length (35" in this case). I also cut two little pieces 4 3/4" long for the center pieces. In the pic below, you can see how they fit together before I cut the long pieces to final length. Everything fit nice, but there's more work to do before I can weld them together...

[Hotrod46]

Looks like you're off to a good start.

The tubing frame is cool. The stance looks like it's right on, too.

Looks like I've got another thread to watch every day now!

Mike

[bluestang67]

Jim just like following shop class . The frame on the coupe is awsome allmost convinced myself to try it but i stayed with the A . You think you will get any flex in the frame useing black pipe . I know very short lengths are strong but was wondering being tied together at 97 inches what it would do .

All these raw builds on this site are great may have me doing it after i get this one done .

Keep up the great work all us rookies are learning from all the masters.

[Itoldyouso]

Wow, looks like you are going to fab up lots of your own stuff. Great job. If I see you casting your own engine block, I'm going to have to bow down to you Jim.

Isn't it fun at this mockup stage, when you are propping wheels and stuff up with lumber and anything that will hold them in place? It's my very favorite part of the build, because it seems like you are really making progress, and it is also exciting.

Love this thread.

Don

[bluestang67]

Don speaking of props i have a socket holding trans in position.

[Itoldyouso]

Sure, sockets, clamps, baling wire, you name it. Then you can sit back in your pondering chair and daydream. If you have two guys there, one sometimes holds stuff up for the other one to step back and take a look. (don't ask how I know about that one )

Don

[bluestang67]

aahhh pondering chair and friends what a life LOL .