Thread: One Way To Build A 12 Cylinder Ardun or not

Tweet

Originally Posted by robot

Pat, the problem that Ken is facing regarding the rocker arm is the layout ends up with one rocker arm that is rather short and one really long....because one valve stem axis is laid towards the centerline of the engine and one valve towards the outside. The Brazilian V8-60 hemis had this problem....was not friendly to revs.

mike in tucson

well then throw some bucks over the top of the valves and set a cam over them .over head v12 or ?? stick some JAG heads on it

http://home.comcast.net/~fairlane2k/Emi ... m-Test.wmv

Here is the problem, but I have a solution. I will get back on here later and show you.
Ken
It didn't work, if you do a search for V8 60 Ardun, the fifth site down it says The Hemi.com View topic - Brazilian V8 Hemi Video, you can see what is going on in the valve train.

Don- You are underestimating yourself, there isn't any difference in building a motor or a car. It's just different information, and you need different tools.

Pat-You are right, we can and are going to make the valve train. JE makes our pistons.

BradC- The head would be split threw the intake and exhaust ports, so we could completely machine the ports.

Mike- I think we have a way of fixing that, see below.

Pat- It's funny you should suggest that. When people find out you are doing something like this you get to see some pretty strange pieces. A guy came over to show me his V8 60 motor he put Suzuki 4 cylinder heads on.


This is what we are thinking. The valves on the flathead are 5 degrees tilted toward the piston. I'm going to move it 10 degrees toward the intake manifold. So now the push rod (taking the place of the valve) will be at 5 degrees the other way. This will allow more room for the rocker arm to get longer which is what we need. Because now the valves will be put in horizontally to the block just like they are in the block This will eliminate that long exhaust rocker arm that Ardun heads had because they put the valves in there heads vertically to the head. Now both rockers will be the same length. The rockers I made for the EVO motor looks like they will work. I made them out of billet first than after testing we had the tooling made and cast them out of stainless to decrease there size, it eliminated a lot of the bulkiness of the aluminum.
We are dealing with a 2 7/8 bore dia. Things get tight really fast.
Ken

it would be alot of work but can you bore out the valve pocket and make up sleeves and press them down on a step like this L then the sleeves has a floor and a wall to seal up on this is how i put a sleeve in a block and if i am in water it seals up on the step

looks like a fun job you can fly me out and i will help the one thing that will take alot of time is getting them head studs out

Ken I have to agree with Don. I can't manage to properly seat a front seal, let alone design and build an engine. As always, thanks for sharing this process with us. It
s great to watch your ideas become realities.

Pat-What if you run into porosity pockets when you bore the hole? Do you have any suggestions on the studs if we do run into some tight ones? I'm going to finish taking it apart soon and get it cleaned, I would like to remove them first.

Steve- You just learn from every problem, you know how to put a seal in properly now, I bet you won't forget.
Ken

Ken, the stud can be burned out with an EDM...if you can find a machine big enough to hold the block. Same as burning out broken taps. You can use a copper-tungsten
electrode....on the corroded studs, the threads may not be in good shape.

mike in tucson

Originally Posted by Ken Thurm

Pat-What if you run into porosity pockets when you bore the hole? Do you have any suggestions on the studs if we do run into some tight ones? I'm going to finish taking it apart soon and get it cleaned, I would like to remove them first.

Steve- You just learn from every problem, you know how to put a seal in properly now, I bet you won't forget.
Ken

try bees wax on the block heat up the deck and let the bees wax wick in you my have to do it more then one time to bad you did not live close i would like check it out if you lived by me i have a 500 gal hot tank with the good stuff in it will eat some rust . any one has one out were you are or buy some of that rust eater flip the block upside down in a tray and let the rust eater work from the deck and the under side to .on the porosity it would be nice to have a junk block to cut on .i think if you cut the seat s out and use a bowl hog that tapper will help or just get the block up on a mill and go in on the angle with a end like a 7/16 mill and take what you just need if you use a bowl hog you should center up on a pilot that plug in the guide hole

Pat-Thanks for all the suggestions and help, please keep them coming.

Ted- Yes the valve diameters are the same, I'm going to change that. I think they did that just to do everything they could to get it to breath.






We have got a lot done, I know the valve angle we are going to use, valve diameter and the geometry for the rocker arms.
We wanted to make sure that our drawings so far were accurate. So we took the drawing to our lazier cutter and had him cut us what looks like a very thick head gasket. Now we know we have everything in the right place, water passages, head studs and bore centers.
The next thing is the drawings for the valve train and intake and exhaust ports.
Just a side note on this, usually when you draw something like this you just draw a center line down the middle and draw one side then make a mirror image for the other side. Not the case with this engine!!
Ken

hi ken is it just the way the picture look or did these engines have the same size valves both intake and exaust kinda looks like that in the photo....ted

That's certainly some very nice work Ken, ain't them laser cutters just the neatest thing since sliced bread????

Been awhile since I worked on a V-12, but I sure do remember what a booger it is to do work on the distributor while it's still installed!!!! Just looking at the surface and layout of the block shows that their is no room for error in designing any of the components for an OHV conversion..... I'll bet a CNC man could start a whole new career writing the program to make a billett head for it!!!!!!!!

Another outstanding project Ken, maybe this is the one to plan ahead for an entry in the GNRS. Just a thought.

Mike

Ken, given your history with bikes this might be some inspiration............

That is one double throw down super kewl scooter you found a pic of Uncle Bob!!!!! Some day I'm going to get caught up and start me a trike project with some sort of outlandish engine, the V-12 would sure do it!!!!!