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I am going to convert to E85 sometime. the sooner the better but what fuel system changes do i need besides the carb. i have a holley electric fuel pump,braided fuel line from front to back. So can i use any alcohol carb or does it have to be a specific E85 carb:confused:
Just curious, but why is switching to E85 sooner better than later?
Kitz
Nothing specific for E-85 on carbs, just go up in jets a couple sizes and tune it from there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitz
not that i need to do it has soon as possible i would just like to know what i may need to be compatible so i can start looking at switching it over by mid to late summer
We've got a couple drag cars and one parts truck on E-85. No problems so far, and really like the higher octane and being able to run a bit higher compression. It does scrub off some of your mpg.....
I'd better clarify on the carb, you DO NOT run an alky carb, just a gasoline carb with bigger jets and maybe a bigger shooter... Alky carbs are set for running on Methanol, not E-85....
so just bigger jets and i am on my way. i have steel braided fuel line will that be ok. is there anything that should not be on the vehicle when i do this. like rubber hoses.what about any of the gaskets in the carb will them be allright or do i need diff material.
Any of the fuel lines that are rubber should be ok. The rubber breaking down because of the ethanol issue was addressed years ago and the problem fixed by the hose manufacturers. As with any fuel, a good filter is mandatory and for safety reasons the use of rubber hose should be kept to a minimum. Same for the carb gaskets, if they're not leaking now, I doubt they will. I would recomend using an exhaust gas analyzer on the initial tune up to get your air fuel ratio correct, then check the plug reading after some miles...
thanks for the help dave!!
No problem. We have two big block Fords running E-85 in drag cars. Both run at 11:1 compression, and both are over 500 rear wheel horse on the dyno. Last year was the first full season on E-85. Both engines looked great on the winter teardown and inspection....
What about fuel pressure? Don't the factory duel fuel capable vehicles run a higher pressure fuel pump? ---Rich
Nope, on both the drag cars and a couple of my own vehicles that I converted I left the fuel pressure the same as for gas... The factory dual fuel cars are injected, which is a higher pressure pump then a carb.
Hey dave another ? can i still use gasoline jets sizes? and how do u figure a good starting point any figures or just throw them in and tune it till its right?
Yup, gas jets are what you'll use. Alcohol jets are the same, just bigger sizes. For a starting point, go up 2 sizes, if you are running 66 jets now, go to 68's. I do suggest the initial tune be done with an exhaust gas analyzer to see what the mixture is running, ideally you will want it at 14:1 throughout the RPM range. I usually check at idle, then at about 2500. The analyzer will save you a lot of time making test passes and reading plugs and IMO it is a lot more accurate. It can be done by reading the plugs, but the only accurate way to get a plug reading is to install new plugs....gets a bit spendy after awhile..
Dang! My mom was wrong.....alcohol and cars DO go together!!!!
Don't be drinking this stuff, Robot!!! I could see where it could become a problem for some folk, get to the track and put the Windsor in the car and the E-85 in their cup!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Dave where do i get one of those exhaust gas analyzers or can i use a air fuel mixture guage
Exhaust gas analyzers were generally a system within the old diagnostic machines for cars, an air fuel mixture gauge will accomplish the same thing....
I thought I read somewhere AFR for E-85 was supposed to be much lower like 6.5:1? Maybe this was for methanol?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Chris
Yep, that's methanol. Really have to be fat with it, then the A/F ratio isn't really that accurate with it, and the plugs are hard to read besides!!!!! Used to race with methanol, it's tricky to get the mixture correct, but works great once you get things set!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by skids72
On the drag cars, our air fuel is between 12.5 to 13.5 to 1. Plug reading are superb, good power, and for whatever reason the cars seem to be far less susceptible to performance changes based on weather changes???? Maybe one of these scientific guys can tell us all why that is!!!!!:confused: :confused:
hey dave on this subject again! well seems taht since i needed a new carb anyway i just bought one. the carb that was on it was a 950 the new one is a e85 750 from quick fuel. i have been playin around since yesterday and i believe tath this thing is RRIIICCCHHH!!!! been messin with the timing and the mixture screws well the idle is great and it runs GOOD too! but when i stomp it from a dead stop in gear or park it has a bog a serious bog so bad i am surprised it doesnt die must be the e85. but the jets that cam with it are 80 primary 90 secondary and what i have done i have messed with the timing and i am 42 right now seems a bit high but i dont know what this stuff runs the best at. also i have undone the secondary linkage and the bog is almost gone so does this mean the carb is rich. and if so should i mess with the shooter or the jets? reason i ask that is i have never seen that much fuel come out of any shooter. oh and the smell of this stuff is awesome.
Wow!!! We don't run that much jet on our 501 incher, I think we're at 76/78, but that's on a 1050 Dominator. On the 460 cuber we have 75/82 with a 750---However that carb was done by Vindicator and flows like 930 or something. But yeah, it does seem plenty fat!!! For whatever reason, the e-85 carbs don't seem to want as big a secondary jet as you would think.... Might want to come down on the jets a step, and delay the scondaries a tad by adjusting the secondary linkage. Oh yeah, on the small engine, we have run a 750 CFM vacuum secondary from Quick Fuel in a couple street missions in the car!!!! (Don't ask!!!:3dSMILE: ) Seemed to work ok, maybe a bit lean up in the revs, but not to the point of melt down or popping... What power valve did they put in the car, and what trans and gear do you run?????Quote:
Originally Posted by 383 chev
45 power valve th400 trans and 4.10 rear gear. i really appreciate your help
Power valve should be close, might want to try 5.5 or a 6.... Our little engine is still running 9.90's, consistent as heck.... And yeah, the stuff does smell great!!!! (even better with about a 2% shot of nitro---or so I've been told!!!!!!;) ;) ;)
alright thnks man i prolly be askin some more questions in the next few days i bought a A\f ration guage so i am gonna hook that up and play with the jets first
Sounds good to me.... With the e-85 and all the good electronics in the ignition, I think that the AF gauge is our most important piece of tuneup equipment!!!!! For whatever reason, once you get everything dialed in, the e85 cars are so consistant!!!! Rodney made 6 passes Sat.....Worst being a 9.90 with a 7, best was 9.90 with a 2!!!!! Made one of these science wizards can explain the improved consistency, but the fuel and the tuneup doesn't seem to be near as effected by weather changes as race gas???????Quote:
Originally Posted by 383 chev
PS---and no, I'm not goofing off today...I was watching some primer dry on the Camaro and couldn't get anyone to come help, so here I am!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
one question does the e85 like more timing or is it about the same
alright here is where i am at now. 86 primary jets 92 secondary jets, and a 4.5power valve, with a 50 squirter with new accelerator pump cams biggest in front next to biggest in the back. seems that the more fuel i give it the better it runs especially the pump cams it like that alot i may now move my jets down since i was trying to tune the wrong thing here. fuel pressure is at 7. i need to go to the track one more time to see if what i have done works. but by the seat of the pants feel i'd say i pick something up. waht do u think a 6.5 power valve would do. bring the bog back or???? well anyway i like this e85 i'd say i picked up some power with it but maybe not!
one of the carb companies i think quik fuel? or one of them fancy guys just introduced the e-85 racing carb, instead of red or purple anodized metering blocks and base plate they're you guessed it, green!
I wouldn't make quite that big a jump on the power valve, maybe sneak up on it 1 step at a time... I don't know if it likes more timing, but I do know because of the higher octane, it can take more timing without picking up a death rattle....
Well of course it's green!!!!! Same color as money here in the midwest!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by gassersrule_196
yeah it has green metering blocks and base plate taht is the one i have
Interesting.....Did they come with a tech sheet? Curious what mods they have done!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 383 chev
yeah it has a sheet i will have to find it in the morning and post what is on it.
Kewl, interested in seeing what the pro shops are doing to the carbs!!! ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by 383 chev
here ya go dave
Attachment 24256
Attachment 24257
Attachment 24258
Kewl, thanks!!! Copied them, see how they match up with the carb we're using....Had it done originally by Vindicator. Gotta check and see if they have these in Dominator size!!!! Those big blocks really like to have a giant shot of E90!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
yeah it seems the more fuel i give it the happier it gets but i think that i may have gone to far with the jets
Easy to do. First time we chassis dynoed one, found out we were way too fat, dropped back to a good steady A/F ratio and found a bunch more torque!!! Reading the plugs is about the same as running methanol, takes a good lighted plug magnifier!!! Think we might take the Comet back to the dyno next week mainly just too see what we've lost power wise, over the course of a summer's racing... Should be interesting. Now with the hot weather around here, the consistency that we've found with the E-90 is really paying off!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 383 chev
E-90? do u brew your own fuel or is this what is available to you in your area
Home brewed, some E-100 from out at the ethanol plant blended with some pump E-85...Quote:
Originally Posted by 383 chev
