Thread: flat black with ghost flames

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I do not think a flat color will work with a pearl that will shine so it won't come out with a ghost look. The John Deere paint works very well and will hold up to any weather. They use it on tractors so of course it will hold real good, it doesn't chaulk white either.

CAJUN1...

I may not have explained myself very well... I believe that you will be able to see the pearl paint underneath the dulled clear, but I don't believe it will look like a pearl... While I have never exactly tried this, I have wet sanded clear coats with pearl under them and when the finish is dull the pearl is not nearly as noticable and looks more like tinted paint... It just does not gleam like a pearl should...

I agree that you will be able to see it and if you lay down a couple of nice coats it should be able to have enough contrast to be seen...

Sorry, I did not explain it "clear" enough...

Dave Brisco

If you want this neat effect, lay down your flames and clear them with gloss clear, then back mask the flames, spray the rest of the car with flat Blitz black, then clear the black with a flattened clear. If you get a bad tapeline at the junction between the clears, water sand it out and buff.

Am I reading this correct?
You want pearl flames flattened ?
I hate to say it but why waste money using pearl in a flattened clear? Like dangerous mentioned , you most likely will have just a flat looking mud flames , the shine of clear is what makes pearl POP in the sunlight !
I dont think I would waste money on something that cant be seen .
Why not go with a traditional type flame job , like go from white, fadded into yellow , fadded into orange , fadded into red at the tips, and use flattener in each color to have the flat look through out the whole flat black paint skeem ?
Just my 2 pennies worth
SprayTech

Gloss flames on flat black WON'T make ghost flames man. It's like having a male side of a cord going into the male side of a extension cord, just won't work. Sorry to tell you that, I know you wanted positive answers but... that's how it goes I guess.

I have a flat black truck with clear flames. I sprayed the truck with a single stage Dupont gloss black and befor it cured well I rubbed it down with a scotch brite pad. then I taped off the flames and sprayed it with clear.

mike

another one from the front.

See, now that was what I was talking about. You don't see that a lot, well at least I haven't seen that before. That is what I would like to do to a truck, flat black and gloss flames.

Mike that is a very nice technique on your truck...

Great job...

Dave Brisco

Could you not achieve exactly the same effect by painting the entire thing Blitz (tractor) black, let it dry for a week, then mask off your flames same as you would do for a conventional flame job, then spray the area where you want the flames to be with clear???

I think it all depends Brian. I think you are supposed to throw the clear on at a certain time. Like you are supposed to wait I think 3 or 5 hours and put a second coat on if you wan't with the Blitz balck and if you wait any longer then it will start to screw up. Here is some things to look at with that John Deere BB paint. I know this isn't specifically answering your question Brian but it should help man.

From: Valspar Paint General Manager. (They make Blitz Black for John Deere.)

#1. If the existing paint is relatively good condition (ie. no peeling paint, no large amount of rust, etc) no primer is needed. Scuff sand the existing paint with extra fine grit sandpaper, wipe surface with a clean cloth and then apply John Deere Blitz Black.

#2. If primer is used due to bare metal or minor surface defects, we suggest the John Deere Buff Primer (available in aerosols, quarts and gallons). This is a very "user friendly" formulation that provides good sandability, excellent filling/sealing properties and enhanced corrosion resistance.

#3. A reducer is needed for optimum sprayability and appearance. We suggest the use of the John Deere thinner/reducer (available in quarts gallon and fives). It is formulated specifically for John Deere paints. The mix ratio is 8 parts John Deere paint : 1 part John Deere thinner.

#4. John Deere Blitz Black is an "air dry" formulation...but if a you want the paint to dry faster and harder, John Deere has a hardener in their product line. It is available in pints, part number REN3001. The mix ratio is 8 parts John Deere paint : 1 part REN3001 hardener : 1 part John Deere thinner.

And the curing window, etc is:
Shooting to a good surface IE: Bare metal, John Deere Primer, or to a good base of existing paint scuffed up.
1 light tack coat and wait no longer than 15 minutes to shoot the full wet coat.
For a second coat which is NOT needed but why the hell not.
Wait up to but NO longer than 3 hours to apply second coat.
But if you go past 3 hours DO NOT shoot another coat because the paint will react and go to $#!T. Wait 36 hours until you shoot the next coat. For each coat the same times apply. But one good coat with the 8 to 1 to 1 (8-1-1 paint-thinner-hardener) will be more than enough.

If I can get ahold of this 53 chevy truck then I am going to be doing the flat black and I was thinking of either metallic blue flames over it but not solid, only an outline that kind of fades in the center and there will be the black in the center of them, or the gloss black flames. I can't decide which to do yet. Either way I think is different.

FMX--during the 70's I flamed many cars and vans, with great success. I found that for painting flames it went like this----if you painted your car in acrylic enamel with the proper hardners, you could mask it off in 24 hours, scuff it litely with a scotchbrite pad, spray your flames, unmask in about 6 to 10 hours and never have a problem. Cars that were painted in a "standard enamel" were more of a pain----you had to use a hardner in the paint and wait at least a week, mask it off, then spray the flames---the really trick part was in pulling the tape after the flames had dried. Standard enamel does not adhere to the car as well as acrylic enamel, so when you were pulling the tape from your flame job, it was a real bitch to keep from pulling peices of the paint job off the car, stuck to the masking tape. I think what I would do is instead of using Blitz black, I would use black acrilic enamel with a flattening agent in it for the first coat., then mask off the flames and spray the clear or colour and clear, if only to prevent lifting the black when I pulled the tape.

Originally posted by mike schramm
I have a flat black truck with clear flames. I sprayed the truck with a single stage Dupont gloss black and befor it cured well I rubbed it down with a scotch brite pad. then I taped off the flames and sprayed it with clear.

mike

Mike ~ VERY NICE!!!!! I haven't ever seen that effect...It looks AMAZING!!!!! I LOVE IT!!!

Here is a picture of me and a flame job that I done on a friends car about 15 years ago.

Brian, that's a gorgeous flame job...good grief, I can't even draw a round smiley face right...