I am about to try to set a 460 on a 55 wagon chassis. There are already stock, solid mounts on the frame. Anyone aware of a simple interface mount?
TY
Ray
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I am about to try to set a 460 on a 55 wagon chassis. There are already stock, solid mounts on the frame. Anyone aware of a simple interface mount?
TY
Ray
oil pan on 460 has a forward sump-you might find one from with reverse sump
Upper Front suspension will be a problem as the 460 package is pretty wide plus the exhaust manifolds are even more so-the earlier Y type engines exhaust manifolds came up and over the suspension where 429/460 go down---
If you want to set the engine back behind the suspension and redo firewall will work(did a Lincoln in my 55 that way) it will help with area behind radiator for accessories and fan. ( of course it does create problems for foot clearance and trans tunnel( bucket seats will help)
Can't help with your questions, but wanted to welcome you to the forum. Hope you stick around, start a build thread and post pictures as you go along. Lots of guys willing to help here, if you run into problems.
Perhaps you mean something like this? Trans Dapt 9313, Trans Dapt Universal Crossmember Motor Mounts | Trans Dapt
Or, perhaps locating a vehicle that has or had a 460 in a wrecking yard ( pick a part), that you can snag the mounts from...
And welcome aboard.. nice car!
Welcome to CHR!
As has been previously eluded to, this will not be a simple drop-in transplant. I love engineering and technical challenges so I would be inclined to tell you, “Go for it!” that said, I’m also a planner and before you actually start buying a bunch of parts or cut anything, draw the project out on paper. Take tons of measurements and sketch the engine bay in detail. Decide how far you want to go in terms of sheet metal or frame surgery.
There seems to be a lot of interest in transplanting Coyote engine/drivetrains into vintage Fords and some kits are showing up on the retail market. Favorite is one I just read about for a ’55 T-Bird: BangShift.com Coyote Den: This Harmless Looking T-Bird Is One Of The Coolest Sleepers We Have Ever Seen - BangShift.com
The major considerations are: how much money do you want to spend, how much of the work are you comfortable (and qualified) to perform and how long will you keep this car?
If your budget is unlimited, you can build about anything you can imagine. Billy Gibbons sold Cadzilla for north of $350K!! Granted some of that value was the association with Billy and ZZ Top but if you have money, you can graft any engine into any car.
If you’re a talented body and paint whiz guy – again, you have a lot more options to do (or barter for) high quality work. And if you intend on keeping this car forever, you can spend as much as you want as it’s not so much a quick turnaround investment as it is a project you’ll enjoy for a good long time.
All that said, if you do decide to go for it – know that it will cost a lot more than you’re thinking right now and it will take a long time to get it done. If this is your first hot rod, I’d advise you to rethink this one as it’s difficult to maintain enthusiasm for the build unless you have unlimited time and money to devote to the process. I’ve spent hours that turn to days fabricating a bracket just to rip it out and start again because I wasn’t happy with the way it looks. I’ve tried to use aluminum where stainless steel would have been a better fit and ended talking the aluminum out and having the stainless piece fabricated by someone who does CNC on stainless. I love to hot rod and have never worked under a time or money constraint (by that I mean I can wait until I have the money). I’ve built a good number of engines but I’ve also decline a lot of builds because the individual wanting the build wasn’t realistic about the time and money required.
Again welcome! Bit of a rant but know that others far more knowledgeable than I am will chime in soon!
Glenn
Also besides the engine swap---------the 55 is 6 volt positive grd electrical system.To run the dash lites and gauges you can put an lead into the middle of the battery so as to get 6 volt for the dash--for all other lights , 12 volt bulbs are easy to get. Some early 429-460 had a power steering pump on the crank snout which eliminates a belt and accessory mount. just 12 volt alternator and a/c pump if you want to do air condition.
I would also suggest doing auto trans from the same donor vehicle-------truck trans are shorter than car trans tailshaft. Use exhaust pipes from pre 74 so not to have cats------
Will be a lot heavier unless you do a build with alum heads, manifold and radiator
And Welcome aboard
Specialty Auto Parts For Sale - Crites Performance Parts - critesperformanceparts.com
460 Motor Conversion Mount Kit with C6 Crossmember & Insulator $255
460/C6 transmission crossmember only with insulator $135
Aluminum Radiator 460 must use separate transmission cooler $295
Radiator Mount Kit $59
Radiator Fan Shroud for our aluminum radiator with 19” fan $79
460 Headers 2 inch tubes 3 1/2 inch collectors you will need to use our crossmember for these headers......Must use our motor mount kit $425.....Add Street Reducers for an additional $35
.
I think your rules said no unapproved links. I an doing a running pictorial here.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1107207...68/55FordWagon
The only thing I am keeping from the dash is the speedometer head. I have a new gas tank and sender and have confirmed that the sender is compatible with later 12V gauges. I will scratch build the entire electrical system.
The trans is an E4OD. And yes, I have previously put one in an early vehicle. The rear is a 3.5 nine inch with new springs. A previous owner had flipped the shackles in an attempt to maintain ride height - a standard trick back then.
I have recently gone to aluminum, triple flow radiators. This and the next four pics is how I mounted it in my Mustang.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1107207...22396698044162
I have had the engine and trans for some time. The engine is from my wife's previous 71 Mach 1 - she now has a 73 Mach 1/460. I am going to rebuild the engine. I have pretty much settled on a 4.5 inch crank because it costs so little extra.
Aluminum heads I am still considering. Besides saving a little weight I am not sure what they would buy me. This is to be my wife's "big" car, and "tour" car - I had originally hoped to have it functional for 2016 Power Tour, but that would mean too many "short cuts". She is a first grade teacher and sometimes needs to haul a lot of stuff. I also intend to put a serious trailer hitch on it. And, it will probably never see 5K RPM.
I have the parts to fab a stainless exhaust, but choosing manifolds will wait until the engine is in.
As for cost, I admit, I have traded some internet buying time for Pic-a-Part time. And I have created a separate account for this car.
Well Welcome aboard-I've looked at you pics and it sure seems you are pretty deep into this and other progects and not over your head in any area-
Like I posted-I did an MEL engine into my 55 back in early 60s (probably 61) and I set it back the gasser 10% rule which is actually much more than 10% because they measure from #1 spark plug to spindle-was crowded in front seat area--------
In 1970 I put a 1969 Lincoln 460 in my F250 pickup and many, many Ford engineers came to look at it at the drag races ( Racing top fuel-push truck) and Ford came out with the option in 1973---my truck was known among them as the Devil truck( so I been told by several since retired Ford engineers)
Good luck---looks like more sheet metal work than drivetrain
Apple Valley?near I 15? I went thru there on way to Bakersfield March Meet race last month
The engine I have is front sump, and my intent is to set it where the original was. I may "shorten" the engine with a remote water pump.
It is a rust bucket, but I was able to get a patch panel for that left quarter panel.
Yes, Apple valley off I 15. And, we will be in Bakersfield this weekend for the NSRA gig.
Don't have any details but my mate has a 460 in his '55 4-door Customline, he did the swap 20+ years ago and here in NZ we didn't have 'kits' to fit different motors to different cars back then (And still don't -our cars have the steering-box on the right side!) so it's all one-off custom bracket making and adapting.
So my take is it can't be THAT hard to do.
You might want to save this: 6 to 12 Volt Conversion - 1955 Ford | eBay Since the 55 is pretty basic you could probably be ahead using this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-CIRCUIT-UN...VV2N9Y&vxp=mtr
It's my understanding that fuel sending units don't actually operate off 12V: they need a voltage reducer.
A fuel gauge sender is a rheostat. This 55 unit, and everything I have worked at least up to 1990, is roughly 10 Ohms full and 70 Ohms empty. At least by 1965 the gauge can be calibrated using a number one Philips.
But first you need to adjust the tank float so that it almost touches the bottom when the arm is fully down. Ideally it would almost touch the top when the arm is full up. But that often means altering the rod length, and generally not worth the bother. It is important to know where empty is, full is not so important.
Regarding your tag line: Education is knowing what questions to ask, usually after it is too late.
This is what is referred to in the 6 to 12 volt link I posted above: Electrical & Wiring - INSTRUMENT VOLTAGE REGULATOR, 1965-66 Mustang
the last 460 swap i did I used the mounts that came with the engine and fabbed some new frame brackets. 460 vans have rear sump pans and an oil filter casting that you can pivot around to different angle, the van oil filter casting will fit on any engine that uses the ph 8a filter. I think some Mopars also use the : Ford :filter. Some HD 460 Vans also have a factory engine oil cooler.
more thinking. when they put SBF into the 55 on chassis the mustang 5.0 convertible mounts work by slotting the frame bracket holes , one slot instead of two holes in the frame bracket. There are kits to put a 460 in a mustang fox chassis, some google time might find some mounts that would work for the mustang convertible chassis and just have to slot the holes in the 55.
Here is a shot of the late Mustang mount in a "55 with a 302: driverside02 | The H.A.M.B.
The 55 will take a break for a while. It is obviously not going to make Power Tour this year. So the 65 Mustang will need to go again, and I an going to change to power, 4 wheel disk. In So Cal drums are fine. Last year we buried the brakes a couple times in a Mid West gully washer and it took a mile to get the brakes back.
That thing is called a voltage regulator, I don't quite know what to call it. I don't know when it was first used, but I have them from 63 to 89. They are the same unit with different mounts.
Both the regulator and the gauge consist of a bimetallic strip. Put current thru them, they get hot, and they bend. When the strip in the regulator bends it cuts off current to the gauges. When the one in a gauge bends it moves the needle. So the gauges get almost full 12 volts, but only intermittently, and so are activated by average current.
If you want to test one, as I recall, three volts - constant - will move it full scale. But in normal operation, the voltage is not constant, because the voltage regulator is slowing opening and closing. Fuel, Oil pressure, and water temp are all the same gauge, just different face.
I will not be using the 55 Fuel gauge. If I use that type it will be from a 76, because that is what I have available mostly. If I do use that gauge type I am considering an actual constant voltage regulator, because those current regulators tend to wander.
Scott Drake now shows an electronic regulator. I ordered something that showed the same picture, but they shipped a part that looked like the old parts.
Can I get some opinions on engine placement?
The album starts here.
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...q6RnRU5H47VMjT
The engine trial fit starts here.
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...4HfjkTPJD1JYwu
The 2x4 blocks at the front mounts represent a channel that would bolt to the stock pad that is on the frame, and join to the stock 460 motor mount on the engine. The block under the rear of the transmission represents a stock E4OD mount.
As it sits, if I provide a pair of channels with four holes for the front, and a removable section in the cross-member under the rear of the transmission, the engine is mounted. Move on to building a floor around it. Lowering the engine would be a lot of work, but I could possibly drop it two inches.
Please, someone give me a reason to not just leave it where it is.
We always liked to get the engine down as low as possible to aid in keeping the center of gravity as low as possible.
It can help with handling.
Isn't that enough reason??? ROFLMAO!
Life is full of trade offs. The vehicle is a 55 Ford wagon. It is being set up as a tow vehicle. And what will it primarily tow? A camp trailer on the Hot Rod Power Tour. Other than that it will be my wife's "big car". She is an elementary school teacher. Her daily driver is a 73 Mach 1/460 that I assembled seventeen years ago, and we refinished in Dec 2015.
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...Pbc7Sf7YLjplkO
The engine will be 545 CI, regular gas, and probably never see 5K RPM. Where it is now sitting, the engine is, from my perspective, a "bolt in". The front anti-sway bar is 1.125 diameter with 10 inch arms. The rear is 1.0 inch with 10 inch arms.
The camber change on compression is to tuck in on the bottom: under-steer. I have parts for a scheme that would have switched that, but some on another forum said that would offend some sensitivities, and I should keep it "traditional". So the engine and the lower control arms share a cross member.
Look at the front-on shot. The center of mass of the engine is probably about at the camshaft. Draw a triangle from the center of mass of the engine to the tire contact points. I agree, lower is better. If time and money were no restriction, how much lower could it go, and what would be the operational benefit?
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...zig53pN_VA6k0X
I like the mount that Tech posted, seems a much better application for what you want to do.
Are you referring to this?
https://jet.com/product/detail/251d5...cmp=placse:cnx
Yup that's the one. Looks like a solid conversion.
Interesting, but I am not working a Chevy.
And, that source, at over $200 is the most expensive. The price from others range to less than $100.
I ordered this. I can make mount plates.
Energy Suspension 3.1120G Complete Engine and Transmission Mount Set $67
Energy Suspension 3 1120G Motor and Transmission Mount Black Zinc Finish Poly | eBay
Life has really gotten in the way of putting this thing together. But I have something of a milestone. The real engine, transmission and differential are in the chassis. I will build the trans mount, align the pinion angle, and order the driveshaft after the suspension is loaded.
https://goo.gl/photos/aF9XY5czAW6ZAuqG8
You've done a pile o'work so far and it's looking great! Thanks for coming back and giving us the update.
Hi and welcome back from me also. Thanks for updating your excellent progress on the Wagon, you have accomplished a fair bit in the rebuild. It is looking very good apart from my doubts over the brand of engine going into it. wink wink.
I can't get a good look at your T, but I am assume it is not a Ford-in-a-Ford. I can understand people liking SBCs. But then why don't they put them in Chevies?
My engine has one part distributed by Ford; the oil pump. It seemed like a good pump and a good price. And I had to modify the Moroso pickup to use it. And the roller cam bearings. I did not install them so did not realize they were Ford.