This is how this starts for me. It may look like any '32 but it has certain parts drawn into it with the look I want. This isn't that expensive to do, it cost $200.00. But for me it keeps me on track with the original idea.
Ken
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This is how this starts for me. It may look like any '32 but it has certain parts drawn into it with the look I want. This isn't that expensive to do, it cost $200.00. But for me it keeps me on track with the original idea.
Ken
Thank you, I have really enjoyed watching your build also.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Robinson
Ken
My dad says the same thing :LOL:Quote:
Now the motor ( my dad hated it when I called an engine a motor! I can still here him "a motor runs on electricity and an engine runs on fuel") I still call them motors, it makes me think of my dad.
-Chris
Ken,
Are you going to post some pictures and description of the front suspension? I see that it is mostly (or all?) inboard. Is it your design or a commercially available unit. I have a TCI IFS on my '31 and while it's nice, really doesn't have much in the way of appeal. It will be under that car forever, but there is always the next one......
Oh yeah, when I went through some of my early engineering courses, the instructor made sure we knew the difference between a motor and an engine:LOL: :LOL: . I think the NA$CAR redneck syndrome took over.
Now the motor ( my dad hated it when I called an engine a motor! I can still here him "a motor runs on electricity and an engine runs on fuel") I still call them motors, it makes me think of my dad.
While the term engine might be technically more correct, somehow it just wouldn't sound right if we referred to ourselves as "engine heads." "motor heads" just sounds so much cooler. :LOL: :LOL:
Don
A motor can either be an electric motor or an internal combustion or steam engine.
As an example I give you Motor Home. :LOL:
An engine on the other hand converts energy and thus excludes electric motors; engines are associated with internal combustion or steam. Electric motors convert electric power to motion.
I thought we were gear heads, not motor heads?:LOL:
Ken I am sure enjoying your build!
Kitz
I guess a whole new glossary of terms would have to be adopted:
No more motor boats, they would be engine boats.
Same with the motor homes you mentioned.
And, "I'm going to engine into town tonight."
Ford Engine Sport parts.
Chrysler guys would buy enpar speed equipment.
A Harley would become an Engine Cycle.
Ad nauseum........... :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Don
See Ken, these threads kinda wander a little sometimes. Wait til the cats and Uncle Bobs pictures start showing up!!!!!!!
IC2-The front end is a Kugel. I chose his because I wanted the front of the "A" arms to be straight across the front of the car, I didn't want them angeling back like a regular a arm. I hope that makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by IC2
I also wanted in board shocks and he didn't make his front end that way(Now he does).
So I bought a set of his rockers and made the mounts (they match my motor mounts) made the bottom shock cross member and new mounts on the control arm. In the one photo you can see the old mount cut off.
Ken
Thanks for the information Ken. I do know what you mean with angling back of a standard A frame - it looks awkward on a fenderless car, especially. Your assembly really cleans up the front end of a hiboy that has an IFS. I do like IFS, but the conventional TCI/Heidt's, etc just has too much claptrap hangin' out in the breeze. Waiting for more:D
The other thing I dislike about independent front ends on fender less cars is that big cross member to mount all that stuff. When I decided to do this one of the parameters was to only do this if I could get rid of, most of that cross member. If you look at the rendering that is what I wanted to see before I made my mind up. The 1" tapered channel of the body, allowing the grill shell to be dropped so radically and still have the body lines perfect. The more you drop the grill shell the wider it gets then if you mount the head lights to the upper control arm bolt on the frame it pretty much hides that ugly necessary thing.
Ken
Oh No! :eek: :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
All I can say is WOW! :) :cool: :D
I do have to agree with that point with the fact that the big cross member and attaching structure is not very appealing on a hiboy. Fortunately for me, I did choose to build a full fendered car - which in Upstate New York is really a good idea with the usual weather we have. I'm attaching a picture of my TCI IFS so others can see what we are talking about (someday I'll wipe down the dust from the chassis)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Thurm
I've seem many channeled cars where the builder will just cut off the bottom of the grill shell, leaving a truncated, IMO, mess with the radiator often hanging below the bottom. The grille then is out of proportion.
The rendering shows the car with hood sides - will you be able to run them with the brackets mounted where they are and the push rod running up to the bell crank?
Yes, everything will fit behind the hood. To make things more difficult I'm going to make the side panels in one piece. Normally (or normal people) split it around the push rod so it's easy to get the side panels off. I don't want that extra parting line on the side panel. So to remove the side panel I will have to take the weight off the suspension and remove the bolts holding the push rod in and then take the side panel off. This gives me the opportunity to screw up my paint job every time I take them off :eek: :LOL:
Interesting - looks like in your 3rd picture that the bell crank will hit....but pictures can be deceivingQuote:
Originally Posted by Ken Thurm
Once you get any bugs wrung out, you shouldn't have to pull the sides off but very seldom anyhow - every 75-100K to change the plugs, maybe??:D
I posted this before, for someone that talked about LS engine radiators. This is the one I had made by a local radiator shop. It's two radiator cores next to each other with a common tank at the top. The two threaded bungs at the bottom are for the drains. There is an air relief valve at the top front to bleed the air off, yes i have to take the grill shell off to bleed it but I thought it would be worth it to keep the tank clean looking in the engine compartment. They put 90 degree inlet and outlets but that will be changed to straights.
The grill shell frame work is bolted to the frame then the radiator is bolted to the frame work along with the shell. I do this to take some of the shock away from the radiator. It probably doesn't but it's the way I have always done it.
Also I will make a filler piece to cover the gap between the grill shell and the fan shroud.
Ken
This is the gas tank I made for the car. It was started with a trip to a Arts and Craft store. I just bought a bunch of different sizes of Styrofoam and some glue. Then fit and cut and glues it together. Made a drawing of the buck took it to a plasma cutter then welded it together.
Ken
This is what it looks like in the car.
Ken
Nice tank Ken, it looks like aluminum? How thick, .090????
Thanks Dave, close it's .120. I'm going to mount the fuel pump in there so I thought I would make it a little heavy. I'm sure its over kill.
Ken
Yup, I'd say the heavier is better with the pump in there.... I've made them out of .060, almost too light especially if there is a possibility of road trash getting to it.... I'd like to find a deal on a sheet of .060" T6, looks good and welds even better, just getting so danged expensive......
You've definately got an eye for detail and it shows. I would love to have someone around to give me some input about some of the things you guys do naturally. I thought for so long how to mount my engine, now I want to cut them off and copy yours:D . That shop has got to be a nice place to work in, I gotta post a picture of what happened in mine over the last week, looks like I haven't cleaned up in about 5 years. I keep buying supplies only to find I already have them on my workbench.
Sean.
Gee, this is a beautiful build, but two years ago I got a lot of flack about a rear tank in my A with references to the old Pinto lawsuits. I am way down on the skill level but I was able to make a cardboard mockup and then paid quite a sum to Rock Valley to weld one up in 14 gauge stainless steel, compared to their usual use of thinner 16 gauge stainless. I do not know the exact thickness of the 14 guage stainless but I had to trim the tabs for the mounts and I burned up a small Mikuta grinder using it to cut through the stainless very slowly. I wanted to simulate a rumble seat and even added a 4" wide steel bar (0.25" thick) behind the tank for rear protection, so it surprises me that you have an aluminum tank down low. I can say that I recall building a 10' sailboat that was overbuilt to the point that it was too heavy to lift so I tend to overbuild, although at a lower level of skill compared to the work shown here. For what it is worth Rock Valley told me they have a display of one of their tanks that was in an accident and has a dent 1/3 the width of the tank and it did not leak! Hey your build is already about 1000 times better than mine but maybe you ought to reconsider use of aluminum in a low rear mounted tank? Check with Rock Valley they can use your existing patterns OR maybe I misunderstood you saying "aluminum" above? My tank came out to be on the small side at about 13.1 gallons U.S. but at the price of gas today that is still about $40/fillup. Relative to discussion of roadster weight on another thread, I realize while writing this that the 4" wide steel bar and stainless for the tank certainly did not reduce the weight of my roadster and I guess I am looking at 2500+ pounds total but there is a safety issue here and the stainless tank is my response.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
The main reason the Pinto tanks blew up was because there was a seam along the side that would pop open under a hard rear impact.... Nader's Raiders blew that entire thing out of proportion just like the Corvair "Unsafe at any speed" garbage..... The majority of cars on the road today have a rear mounted fuel tank made out of sheet metal......
I guess if Hot Rods were built with safety being the prime consideration they would all have roll bars, side impact bars, 5 mph bumpers, air bags, air curtains, collapsible steering columns....or we could all just buy Chrysler mini-vans.... We certainly wouldn't be running roadsters or anything with a 'glass body!!!!!! About 10 years ago or so a friend of mine got his car hit from behind by some idiot talking on a cell phone. His tank was an aluminum one that I had built for the car out of .060 aluminum... It crumpled up like a ball of aluminum foil--and didn't leak a drop.....
Heck, if it's your time to go your gonna go.... doesn't matter if the tank is aluminum or 1" thick boiler plate....
Don,Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
I agree with you, I always try to think about safety when I build something. But I have to be honest if I built IT based on what ifs, it would be really ugly. I always believe that no matter how hard you try, if you ever get "T" boned in one of these things you can probably kiss it good bye.
I do have frame work around my tank though.
Ken
Finally got the front suspension done. I'm running out of room, still have to put two radiator lines in and a air intake.
Ken
Here's a spur of the moment question.
Hey Ken, any thought on running anti roll bars on the front or back, or do you think the car is light enough to not warrant? I'm using a Heidts IFS/IRS and would value your opinion here.
Kitz
Kitz,Quote:
Originally Posted by kitz
Thanks for your confidence in my opinion. This is a subject that I'm an expert on.
Now this is how I do it. I always completely build the car and drive it in it's raw state. If it feels like it wants anti roll bars I put them on. :LOL: :LOL:
That is the only way I know how to do it. I have figured out the roll center on cars, center of gravity in relationship to the centerline of the spindles and axle, and about every other method that people have told me is the absolute way of determine this. The best way I have fond is, just the way I do it.
Sorry I'm not much help.
Ken
Ken, Part of my reason for the heavy gauge was that it will be a seat as well as a gas tank but I don't regret using the stainless for strength or corrosion resistance. With all that beautiful work I'm hoping you put a nice fifty's style nerf bar in the rear at least, just a suggestion.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: What a coincidence, the same scientific approach I use!!! I conduct my "Does it need a sway bar" evaluation on this curvy road around the lake... On one particular curve, if I can come into it at 45 and have an exit speed of 55, no sway bar required..... Before I put the bar to the car, I also play around a bit with spring rates and shock valving.... If I do use a bar, I always use one with adjustable end links for adjustment...Figure if I have to carry the extra weight, might as well make it work!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Thurm
The nice thing about just going out and buying an IFS chassis like a TCI is you have a chance to check a box for a rear bar - the front is standard. They will just extract a few more bucks from you, with no questions asked. If I were to build my own, say with ASC rails and some carefully chosen components from 1 (800) HOT RODS, then my choices would be as you and Ken described. Regardless, I, personally, would probably still have one by the time I was done with the chassis build - I am all to aware of how adding one to a pick up truck and a heavier version to my '86 Mustang GT helped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Yeah, I wouldn't want to drive my Mustang without both bars,,,, thing is with the lighter cars and the coilovers, so many other things to tweak and play around with, maybe the sway bar isn't necessary..... Guess I think of them as a handling improvement of last resort.... I'd really rather make up for the lean and roll with other methods of chassis tuning... My opinion of a sway bar is that it just transfers the problem to somewhere else....I've had the addition of a front bar lead to a loose condition on the rear, and sometimes even make the front end just dig in and push like an overloaded dump truck...... But I do like a rear bar, seems to make the car a bit easier to throttle steer.... I know, I should just grow up and quit over-driving everything I own!!!!!!! I just can't help it, the road racer wanna be in me just keeps coming out!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
There are lots of things that can make '80s Mustangs handle better but when I had that a car, $$$ was a MAJOR problem and a sway bar along with a set of chassis stiffeners and an under hood shock tower bar was all the thin wallet would allow (plus it was a floppy bodied T top).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Grow up? Why? One of my fun things these days is coming up fairly close behind a ricer and kid driver with all those shiny grille bars on my '06 F350 FX4 reflecting off his rear window:LOL: :LOL:
And here we go again, hijacking Ken's build thread - sorry Ken. It wont happen until the next time:o
Yeah Ken, you know we'll never do it again!!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I took the day off, my garage was a mess from working all week. My wife is a keeper :LOL: :LOL:
Ken
Don,Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
Thanks for the suggestion.
Ken
Wow!!!! Hope you're going to build her a really special car, Ken!!!! Really like that shop, got to get mine cleaned up one of these days.....
Ken,
While my wife too is a keeper, she does stay out of the man cave:p . My shop is usually fairly neat, I don't have a carpet and the only reason my tool boxes are polished is that when I was final buffing some parts for my car there was some Presta splatter and car polish did a better job of clean up.
You know you've made it on two levels when you can get your wife to vacuum the carpet floor in your shop. :LOL: Oh yeah Ken, I bet that garage was really a MESS! You haven't seen messes til you see ours sometimes.
BTW, I love those inboard coilovers on the front. What a neat setup.
Don
Dave-Thanks she wants a '32 Woody for her surf board :eek:
Ic2-You have a nice work area too!
Don-The only thing about a messy garage is you usually have gotten something done :LOL: I'm happy with the front end also.
Ken