Another build thread? Yep, my track-style T

[brickman]

I guess the weight of the steering components are forcing all the reinforcing, looks like you have cured the problem. From following the thread, I know you have built many of those chassies, is there a set plan you go by? If there is a set of plans, I would love to have a copy. I am wanting to build one myself.

[J. Robinson]

It wasn't just the weight, but also mostly the stress of the steering action pushing and pulling the pittman arm / spindle arm. I definitely underestimated the stress on the steering assembly.

No, I don't have any plans. If I did, you would be welcome to them. Except for a handful of T-bucket frames, most of the 20 or so frames I have built or helped build over the years have been one-of-a-kind, plan-as-I-go ventures. I have some sketches that I have made on graph paper to calculate some angles, etc. but no complete plans. I generally do a full-size layout on the garage floor using 2" masking tape and an assortment of measuring tools. If you look in my gallery of build pics on my coupe, there are a couple of pictures of the layout on the floor and some frame pieces cut to fit it.

The most complex frame I ever built was for a '48 Anglia. It had an independent front end out of an MG Midget and a narrowed 12-bolt Chevy rear on crossed torsion bars. After that would probably be the frame I built for a '37 Chevy coupe. Probably the prettiest frame I ever built is the Deuce-style frame under my coupe. The jury is still out on my roadster frame; it is the only one I have ever done completely from round tubing. It may be the most interesting (from a builder's standpoint).

If I can be of assistance to you on your build, please let me know. What type of frame are you planning? What kind of car?

[J. Robinson]

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away... No, wait a minute; wrong story...

Once upon a time a few years ago, I was helping my (then) boss put a Maverick rear end under his '40 Ford coupe with 350/350 combo. We had everything done except the drive shaft. I grabbed one out of the stash of old drive shafts propped in the corner and shoved the splined yoke into the transmission. I lifted the rear of it up to see how much it would need to be shortened and, holy U-joints Batman, it fit perfectly! That was the only time in my life that has ever happened. Every other hotrod and race car I have ever built had to have a custom length drive shaft.

I thought, since I have the body off, this would be a good time to make a drive shaft for the roadster. Unfortunately, my camera malfunctioned and deleted all the pictures. I took another pic of the finished product, but I lost all the "how-to" pics. The good news is, I have to repeat the process tomorrow evening on my son's sedan, so I will reshoot the process and post the pics here.

[oddcarout]

J.

Did you weld your own driveshaft? If so will you be showing us how to do that with your son's sedan?

Thanks for all of the info. its great that there is so much info, and different ideas to do these cars.

Thanks,
Z

[Itoldyouso]

I like the way you licked the steering problem. I also like that you demonstrated that we all run into little problems when building a car.......h***, even the big car makers screw things up, so why should we not do the same every once in a while. The key is to do just like you did, figure out what is going on, and how to correct it.

I really like this build you are doing. Fun to see it coming together as it is.

Don

[J. Robinson]

Z- Yes, I cut and weld my own drive shafts. I've lost count of how many I've done over the years, but I would guess 20+. I've only had one that vibrated; it was in an Olds Cutlass stock car. At about 7,000 rpm it rattled my teeth ; the following week I made another one and solved the problem... Yes, I will be showing step-by-step how I do it. I photographed the process yesterday on my roadster, but when I went to download the pics to my computer the memory card was empty! I will photo the process again on my son's sedan.

Don- Thanks. I've been enjoying doing this thread on my build. Your roadster thread was the original inspiration for doing it.

I was so disgusted Saturday that I was very close to cutting all the steering junk out and replacing it with a cross-steer system! Cowl mounted steering was common in the track roadsters of the early '50's, though, so I finally decided to persevere and fix it.

[Bob Parmenter]

I was so disgusted Saturday that I was very close to cutting all the steering junk out and replacing it with a cross-steer system! Cowl mounted steering was common in the track roadsters of the early '50's, though, so I finally decided to persevere and fix it.

Glad you toughed it out, it's been very informative.

[gottabuild1]

Man i love it when people build there own s--t, thats awesome man, the pieces i like the most are the, well i don;t know what they are called but they are on the front suspension with the heim joints? bent and coped tubing, they look beautiful, you have the same harbor freight tools i have , cheap but work awesome and did i mention cheap again?

[J. Robinson]

Those are called "radius rods". The style I used on the roadster are commonly called "hairpins" because they are shaped somewhat like a lady's hairpin. They were popularized by Frank Kurtis in the 1940's when he made and used them on his Kurtis Kraft midgets and Indy cars.

My coupe has a different style of radius rods that are probably more common on hotrods. They use a straight top bar and the bottom one curves up to intersect it near the rear pivot point. They are visible in the coupe pic below. There are other styles, too. Different builders have their own opinions about what looks good.

Yeah, Harbor Freight tools may not stand up to daily production use, but for the home builder they're great... and cheap, too. Oh yeah, you said that.

[Itoldyouso]

Got the tank on the coupe filled for your trip to Daytona yet????

Don

[J. Robinson]

Well, not yet... Actually, I filled the tank on my Honda Shadow Aero instead!

The wife and I are going up for Biketoberfest this afternoon and staying until Sunday. The coupe will be ready when the time comes, though...

[J. Robinson]

Well, I finally got enough pics to show how I shorten a drive shaft. It really isn't a difficult process but has several steps, so I will have to break this up to get all the pics posted. It usually takes about an hour to complete the process. Only drive shafts that are straight (not stepped or tapered) from end to end can be cut this way and I always do the cutting at the rear end.

The first step is to insert the splined yoke into the tailshaft of the transmission and take a length measurement. I just let the back end of the shaft rest on the floor, push the yoke in as far as it will go, and then pull it back 3/4 inch. Turn the shaft yoke and the rear end yoke so they are in phase with each other. Now take a measurement from the depth of the rear yoke (where it normally holds the U-joint) to the rear of the bearing cup on the front yoke. This dimension will be the same as a center-to-center measurement, but is easier to get, especially if you are working alone. On my roadster it measured 17 5/8 inches.

Next, I remove the drive shaft and take a center-to-center measurement on it's U-joints. This 1986 Camaro shaft measured 41 1/2 inches. Now subtract the needed 17 5/8 from the existing 41 1/2; the difference of 23 7/8 inches is what I needed to remove from the existing shaft. Before I throw it in my chop saw and lop off the end, however, some pre-planning and preparation is necessary.

First step in modification is to clamp the uncut shaft in a vise and mark the position of the yoke and any weights that might be attached to the rear of the shaft. Note that the front and rear yokes are always in phase with each other, but since the shaft was balanced with the yoke in a particular position, I want to put it back together in the same position. I use a coarse file and "draw" it sideways the length of the shaft. This gives me a permanent mark that no amount of handling will erase (I learned this the hard way).

Next, I knock the rear weight off with a cold chisel and put it aside to be reattached later. Then I grind down the weld holding the rear yoke to the tube. I grind it until it is completely flat all the way around the shaft. This makes cutting through it easier and, as an added benefit, the grinding heats and discolors the end of the tube so I can see exactly where it stops.

Using the discolored marks as a guide, I cut all the way around the shaft about 1/16th inch deep. This can be done with a hacksaw, but I use an air-powered "whoopee" saw.

[J. Robinson]

One god "bap" with a hammer and the yoke pops out of the tube! Now the tube goes to the chop saw to have the necessary length removed (23 7/8 inches for my roadster).

Next, position the yoke so that the marks made earlier on it and the tube line up. After a couple of solid taps to get it started, stand it on end and slam it down on the concrete floor a few times to get the yoke into the tube. (Some drive shafts, like GM metrics and older Chevy, go together fairly easy, but these mid-80's Camaro / Firebird shafts are a really tight "swedged" fit.)

At this point it is necessary to have a good U-joint in place, so I installed the one I'm using. (It's an "adapter" U-joint that has different dimensions across the bearings because I am using a GM engine, trans, drive shaft and a Ford 8" rear end.) If the yoke falls out of the tube while you are wrestling with the U-joint it's OK. It goes back together fairly easy now. Finish installing the joint into the yoke and put it back together. If the yoke just won't stay put at all, put a small tack-weld on it.

With the U-joint installed, bolt the drive shaft in place in the car and jack up a rear wheel so you can spin it (both wheels if you have a posi rear). Clamp a long screw driver, welding rod, paint stick, or something similar in a position so that it almost touches the drive shaft right in front of where the yoke and tube will be welded. Spin the rear wheel slowly and watch the shaft to see if it runs true in relation to the stick. (This is an old blacksmith's trick to check run-out on a shaft or wheel; you could use a dial indicator instead if you want.) Use a hammer to "persuade" the driveshaft & yoke to move around until it runs true. When you are satisfied, put at least 3 tack-welds around the yoke & tube. Check the run-out one more time to make sure the welds didn't draw it off center. If everything is still true, weld it all the way around.

The last thing is to weld the weight back on the shaft according to the line you scribed earlier. That's it.

[J. Robinson]

I haven't progressed a lot on the roadster this past week as I have spent most of my "garage time" helping my son with his sedan. I did manage to work in a couple of small items, though.

First, I made a pair of diagonal braces that bolt to the frame and to the front hoop. When the body is in place, they will bolt through the firewall. Their purpose is to further strengthen the steering box mount so it will not flex and put stress on the fiberglass body.

The other thing I did was fabricate a mount for the (yet to be fabricated) removeable roll bar brace. I made the mounting bracket from 1/4 inch plate, 3 inches square. I drilled the 3/8" holes on diagonal corners and welded 3/8-24 nuts underneath. This bracket is welded and gusseted to the frame right behind the front hoop on the passenger side. When the body is in place, it will be under the floor. The top plate is 3/16" plate, 3 inches square and drilled to match. The brace (when I fabricate it) will weld to this plate.

The only other thing I did was to mount the brake and clutch master cylinders so that I could shorten the pushrods for both. Those were just a matter of cutting and splicing the rods to the appropriate lengths, so I didn't bother taking pics.

[Itoldyouso]

That isn't going to move at all JR. Great way to brace it. Is your Boy's sedan going to make it to Daytona?


Don