37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

[Irelands child]

Hey Dave,
Here's a question for ya.....I finally fired up my new welder yesterday....yeah, I know, what took so long, right? Just been too busy with other stuff....anyway, it came with a hand-held eye protector. I haven't bought a welding helmet yet cause I'm too cheap and looking for a great deal...LOL...in the meantime, will the goggles from my acetelene welder work for mig welding?
Will give more of an update on the car after while. Thanks.
Randy

Randy,
You're up early today!!

In one word NO. You not only need eye protection but skin protection from the UV emissions from the arc. I do not believe that the gas goggles are more then an 8 or 9 for light tranmission level. For arc welding safety you need at least a 10, and a 12 is better. The idiots you see on car and bike shows are dumb to even tack weld w/o a shield.
One eyeball "sunburn" is a real wake up - been there with a very minor one years ago. Take a walk down to the beach, pick up a handful of sand and throw it in your eyes and leave it there for a day or two - this will give you a general idea of the discomfort level. Be real careful on EvilBay - some of those hoods offered aren't too good.

The hand held mask they give you, as far as I'm concerned is junk and is only good enough to hold while watching someone else weld. You need a self darkening hood, either UV(arc) activated or battery activated in about 1/25,000 of a second for safety. The one I have is a UV, fairly low end, but since I'm not doing this for a living is fine - and as a matter of fact I have it on right now since I've been welding up some hood latch holes this morning. You also need good long gauntlet welding gloves - welded steel gets real hot .

I had planned on painting the end of the week with my wife in Merrie Olde England for 8-9 days visiting kid(daughter) #4 and grandchildren, but if you turn on the Weather Channel, you can get an idea of the conditions we've had .

[randyr]

Thanks for the advice! I used the hand-held thing for a while yesterday and I suppose it served it's purpose but it's definitely a pain in the butt to try to hold it and weld at the same time. I have some good welding gloves and I'm pretty cautious with stuff.....however, I was wearing some ripped up jeans and looked down to see how easily they catch on fire!! Yikes!! No harm done though. Probably would have been funny to an onlooker.....LOL!

Home Despot has a self darkening helmet for $100.....I see various ones on Ebay for $29-$300 so I guess it just depends on how much one wants to spend....I too am leary of many of the "great deals" on ebay!

You'll be happy to know I finished my taxes on Saturday! Woohoo! and I don't have to pay! double WooHoo!

I hope you get a break in the weather so you can do some painting. Tell me again what color you're painting the car.....

[Irelands child]

Thanks for the advice! I used the hand-held thing for a while yesterday and I suppose it served it's purpose but it's definitely a pain in the butt to try to hold it and weld at the same time. I have some good welding gloves and I'm pretty cautious with stuff.....however, I was wearing some ripped up jeans and looked down to see how easily they catch on fire!! Yikes!! No harm done though. Probably would have been funny to an onlooker.....LOL!

Home Despot has a self darkening helmet for $100.....I see various ones on Ebay for $29-$300 so I guess it just depends on how much one wants to spend....I too am leary of many of the "great deals" on ebay!

You'll be happy to know I finished my taxes on Saturday! Woohoo! and I don't have to pay! double WooHoo!

I hope you get a break in the weather so you can do some painting. Tell me again what color you're painting the car.....

You have to be real careful with sparking from welding - I have set a pieces of steel wool on fire as well as an occasional rag. I haven't yet done my ragged jeans but that day is most likely coming as some are pretty disreputable. My wife makes them 'disappear' when they get too bad and are about to moon the neighbors.

Nice thing about Home Depot - you can hop in your car and take it back if it craps out. I was just in our local store - it looks like since they fired my old GE boss, Bob Nardelli with his 210MM golden parachute, they are cleaning house and the help is being retrained and more customer centric (how's that for a corporate buzz word ).

I picked my taxes up on Sunday - and whoopee, I get a few bucks back - just enough to pay for the washer that died on Saturday. I wish I could do my own but I have some interesting investments that take a CPA to figure out. Turbo Tax had me paying when I went thru the numbers a few years ago but when the tax person went thru the numbers, ended up with a pretty good refund, so.....

The color will be a bronze which is a mix of gold and metallic brown. I didn't like either, mind you at about $100/quart wasn't about to dump 6/7 quarts so I did mix and spray trials until I got something I like. I hope I never have to duplicate it though I do have the "formula" written down. Possible next week the weather will change according to the weather folks - but here in Upstate NY, that is never a promise, only a best guess as we are 200 miles downstream of Lakes Ontario and Erie and control it.

Gotta go rig up a new filter for my compressor -

[36FordPickup]

Great thread! I, too, want to put a Ford in a Ford. I am working with a '36 pickup. Since it is a pickup, I hesitate to install a recessed firewall because of the reduced legroom. I measured my engine bay and have 30 inches from the firewall to the radiator core. Instead of going the recess firewall route what to you guys think of utilizing some kind of narrower radiator and mount it forward more into the shell? Am I dreaming or do you think it might work? Sure would like to see if anyone has taken this approach.
Thanks,
Allen

[randyr]

Great thread! I, too, want to put a Ford in a Ford. I am working with a '36 pickup. Since it is a pickup, I hesitate to install a recessed firewall because of the reduced legroom. I measured my engine bay and have 30 inches from the firewall to the radiator core. Instead of going the recess firewall route what to you guys think of utilizing some kind of narrower radiator and mount it forward more into the shell? Am I dreaming or do you think it might work? Sure would like to see if anyone has taken this approach.
Thanks,
Allen

Hey Allen,
I don't have my tape measure handy as I'm responding but will throw in a few thoughts anyway. You didn't say if your using a 302 or 351 but I'll assume 302 for now. The radiator is already pretty narrow on these vehicles so making one more narrow to keep from recessing the firewall might be self defeating in the cooling department. It also might look weird thru the grille. I know you can gain about 1.5" by using a shortened streetrod waterpump. I got mine. from Jegs. The shortened waterpump will require a special pulley for it, which I can refer you to a place for that, too.

You could also consider combining that with the 3" recessed firewall instead of the 5" recess and I don't think you'd notice any major difference in leg room inside the cab. There are lots of other things to consider suspension, crossmembers, oil pan clearance, etc. What kind of front suspension are you planning to use? You'll have to have a mid-sump or rear-sump oil pan. Are you using the original chassis or aftermarket? What kind of trans? Bob Drake of Bob Drake Reproductions, www.bobdrake.com is building a Ford-powered 35 Ford 5 window with a 302/AOD. They got by with recessing the original firewall about 2". You can check out their progress on their website.

I'm no expert but I'll be happy to share my experience.....much of it I've learned the hard way...LOL! Thanks to forums like these, I can save myself a few headaches along the way now. Let us know how we can help....

Randy

[Irelands child]

Good grief Allen, I hope you were able to get past our babble and get something out of this very long thread that mostly Randy and I have kept up.

While there are some interesting challanges to keeping as much leg room as possible in a car, you do have to consider being able to work on it as well as admire your handiwork. I, too am tall at 6'4" and the '31 A roadster that I am building doesn't have an excess of legroom - with about a 5" recess. I have gotten mostly around this with Glide Engineering seats (now being upholstered) that are fairly thinly padded and slid back to the limits of the passenger compartment. A Ford with a short water pump is shorter then a Chebbie and is narrower by far. Where you tend to run into problems is the front oil pan sump. It can interfere at the front cross member unless you have converted to IFS. A rear sump version can be found on the later engines and usually clears the cross member without any problem. Regardless, a Ford in a Ford is the way to go and there are several rabid Fordnatics on this forum that make me look casual.

It will end up costing a bit more then a Brand "C", but in the long run, worth the aggravation.

Randy, I screwed up both of my hood sides and had to order replacements from Rootlieb yesterday - had them leaning against my trucks back bumper while cleaning the garage then backed over them - got 'em mostly straightened out but still really look nasty, and since I need to be doing other things on the car now, so, $230 delivered later ....

[randyr]

Good grief Allen, I hope you were able to get past our babble and get something out of this very long thread that mostly Randy and I have kept up.

Randy, I screwed up both of my hood sides and had to order replacements from Rootlieb yesterday - had them leaning against my trucks back bumper while cleaning the garage then backed over them - got 'em mostly straightened out but still really look nasty, and since I need to be doing other things on the car now, so, $230 delivered later ....

OH Dave, now that sounds like something I would have done!!!
I'm sorry, man, that really sucks!

I'm moving along slowly on my car.....I finished getting the Chassis Engineering trans mount and X-center section installed yesterday. I'm impressed with it's strength and design when using the orignal chassis. They have 40+ years experience at this stuff and seem to know what they're talking about. I also re-enforced the frame supports that run from the X-member over to the frame rails. Per the Chassis Engineering tech guy, I welded (yes, with my new welder and all by myself!!) a 1"x1/8" strap around the perimeter of the frame support, re-drilled the holes and re-installed it. It stiffened it up quite a bit. My welds are not "picture perfect" but they are under the car and up against the floorboard, so after I get them painted, they will go virtually undetected.

I finished cutting out the floorboards and now can clean and paint this part of the frame. Yes, it would be nice to remove the body and do the frame really right but that just can't happen right now. I'm going to plumb the brakes, etc. while I have access through the missing floors. I'm anxious to get on with it. Of course, if I win the lottery or something, I'm going to abandon this chassis and scurry out to TCI and get one fully tricked out!!!

Hope all is well on your end.....aside from running over your hood and stuff.......
It rained here this morning, so naturally we had "STORM WATCH 2007!!!!" I'm glad I grew up somewhere else so I can chuckle at all this "drama" over these everyday occurrences...ya know?

Randy

[Irelands child]

OH Dave, now that sounds like something I would have done!!!
I'm sorry, man, that really sucks!

..... My welds are not "picture perfect" but they are under the car and up against the floorboard, so after I get them painted, they will go virtually undetected.

..... Of course, if I win the lottery or something, I'm going to abandon this chassis and scurry out to TCI and get one fully tricked out!!!

Hope all is well on your end.....aside from running over your hood and stuff.......
It rained here this morning, so naturally we had "STORM WATCH 2007!!!!" I'm glad I grew up somewhere else so I can chuckle at all this "drama" over these everyday occurrences...ya know?

Randy

Randy,
All is well here - sort of - with my wife in England.

I just called Rootlieb to see if they shipped the hood sides - but, since I wanted them with no hardware or even hardware holes, they wont ship for 7 to 10 days ...DRAT

Glad you finally got to use your new welder for something besides a door stop It takes a while to get reasonably good welds - mine are just barely that as I don't really do enough to keep in practice. It's amazing what a few pieces of steel will help.

Sorry about the rain in "sunny" CA. It is about 65 now with bright blue skies as opposed to last week when we were waiting snow. Supposed to be 75 or so by Sunday and my yard is a disaster - it's just under an acre, with 17 huge, 100+ year old oak trees that shed all winter, so I will be in some pain shortly with raking. Then I need to de-winterize the camper. And, oh, by the way, finish painting the house and when I have some free time, work on my car, sheetrock the laundry room, put in a new bathroom countertop and sink plus a new shower stall And I thought when I retired, I would have a lot of free time. Oops gotta go to Lowes now for some drain parts now for the new washer - the old one died Saturday
Like I said, all is well here - kinda !!

Later

[36FordPickup]

Randy,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've seen the Bob Drake '35. I am planning the same drive train for my truck. Using an axle and disc brakes for front suspension and a 9" in the rear with parallel leafs and original frame.

Dave,
The truck has a pristine firewall and I was hoping to keep it intact, but if I can't, I can't. Do you know the actual length of the 302 with the short water pump setup? Appreciate the help, Allen

[Irelands child]

Randy,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've seen the Bob Drake '35. I am planning the same drive train for my truck. Using an axle and disc brakes for front suspension and a 9" in the rear with parallel leafs and original frame.

Dave,
The truck has a pristine firewall and I was hoping to keep it intact, but if I can't, I can't. Do you know the actual length of the 302 with the short water pump setup? Appreciate the help, Allen

I guess with a pristine firewall, I would try to save it if at all possible, but it just becomes tougher to shoehorn it all in there.
Good Luck

The overall length with the short serp. water pump outer most tip to the back face of the flex plate(or flywheel) is ~27.5 (27 to back of the block casting)

Here's a good website for dims: http://carnut.com/specs/fengdim.html

You might be surprised to find how much smaller the Ford is then the Chebbie.

[randyr]

Randy,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've seen the Bob Drake '35. I am planning the same drive train for my truck. Using an axle and disc brakes for front suspension and a 9" in the rear with parallel leafs and original frame.

Dave,
The truck has a pristine firewall and I was hoping to keep it intact, but if I can't, I can't. Do you know the actual length of the 302 with the short water pump setup? Appreciate the help, Allen

Hey Allen,
If you haven't already decided on your frame mods and rear end installation materials, you might check out chassisengineeringinc.com . I'm pretty impressed with the quality and simplicity of their streetrod chassis parts. They have motor mounts (bolt in or weld in) that may work well for you too. They've been around a long time and may be old-school enough to have some ideas to help you save your firewall. Do you have your oil pan situation figured out? I'm sure you already know you need a rear or at least a mid-sump pan to clear the crossmember. Those can be found on 66-76 Broncos and some others. I got a mid-sump pan from a 70-80 F150 4x4. It has enough clearance for mine but might not work for yours since your motor will need to be further forward.
Anyway, enough of my babble. Keep us posted on your progress and ask all the questions you want. Like Dave said, he and I have pretty much dominated this thread with a mixture of car stuff & chit-chat, but if you can wade through it all, maybe you'll find some helpful things. I know I have.

Later,
Randy

[36FordPickup]

Thanks, Randy!

[randyr]

Hey Dave,
I was reviewing some of your pics again....where did you get those exhaust hangers/brackets?

You got that thing painted yet or are you still working in the yard? LOL!

Later,
Randy

[Irelands child]

Hey Dave,
I was reviewing some of your pics again....where did you get those exhaust hangers/brackets?

You got that thing painted yet or are you still working in the yard? LOL!

Later,
Randy

Randy,
You know that welder you just bought and need some practice with - good place to get some more experience running a bead - that is assuming you have a good self darkening shield. The rubber insulators are standard NAPA kind of stuff - believe those are Chebbie pieces. If you go that way I can possibly dig up the p/ns.

I'm still sanding,priming and block sanding - it's much too hot to work in the yard today. It's in the mid to high 80's but will return to the normal here for April, 50s and 60s by Wednesday

[randyr]

Randy,
You know that welder you just bought and need some practice with - good place to get some more experience running a bead - that is assuming you have a good self darkening shield. The rubber insulators are standard NAPA kind of stuff - believe those are Chebbie pieces. If you go that way I can possibly dig up the p/ns.

I'm still sanding,priming and block sanding - it's much too hot to work in the yard today. It's in the mid to high 80's but will return to the normal here for April, 50s and 60s by Wednesday

Hey buddy, I got the shield if you got the p/ns! I discovered something interesting about my welder....it works much better with a stronger current....the garages in my little apartment complex are all wired together on the same circuit. When I plug the welder into that circuit I get crappy looking welds but Saturday I ran an extension cord from the outlet near where the meters are and what a difference! I was welding pretty good for a novice!! So I'm not afraid to tackle some exhaust brackets!

Funny how you think the mid 80's is too hot for you and I think the 50's & 60's are too cold for me.....LOL! Actually I think 82 is about perfect!