Thread: Project $ 3 K Is Underway

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Remind self to move in with Don and son till 31 model A is done. To much good work being done on their cars and I can't finish a garage.
Brad

Don, could you tell me please; what are cleco fasteners and how do they work?
They're something I've not seen before.

johnboy

They are designed to temporarily hold two pieces of metal together, such as attaching two pieces of 18 gauge floor sections until you can weld them. There is a pair of pliers that squeezes the fastener (there is a spring inside each fastener) until the tip comes out. You slip that into a hole you drill into both pieces of metal, and when you release the pliers, the tip expands and clamps them together.

They come in sizes for either 1/8 inch holes, or 3/16. Probably other sizes too. They are the cats meow for holding pieces together, especially in places where you can't get a normal clamp. It saves you having to put a screw or something else there until the parts are welded solid. The 1/8 is the most usefull.

Here is a picture of the tool and a fastener. If you push in that shiny silver button on the left side, the prongs on the right side come out and shrink down to fit into the hole. When you release the button, they contract and swell up to grab and hold the pieces together tightly.

Don

Don,
I love looking at good metal work and that is some very nice work. It takes a lot of patience and talent. You must get a lot of enjoyment working with them. My hat is of to you
Ken

Couple of questions for you Don, What type of resin were you using on the body? Polyester, vinyl ester or epoxy? Also is there a specific reason for using matting as opposed to E-glass?

I've done some fiberglass work on wooden boats and use epoxies and E-glass. I've found both to be very easy to work with and not nearly as nasty as polyester resins. Epoxies are also waterproof, polyester resins can allow some water in over time potentially allowing the wood to rot underneath. Probably less of an issue with a car, which will only see occasional splashing as opposed to a boat.

BTW, quick and dirty fairing compound, and less expensive than "tiger hair" or "Mar Glass". Mix fine sawdust, They call it "wood flour" in the boat building hobby, with the resin until it reaches a peanut butter consistency. Probably doesn't have quite the same fiber strength that the chopped strands do in Tiger Hair, but good enough for fairing and filler. Cheap too.

Don---Thanks for the post about "cleco" fasteners. I never really understood how they worked either.---Brian

Thanks Ken: You are right, seeing my Sons is the highlight of my week. I really enjoy it when we get together. Should be able to see my other Son Don more now, he has taken a job only about 20 minutes from the shop, so he will be starting on his projects as soon as things settle down for him a little.

Brian: Thanks, and I'm glad you got some info out of the cleco post. I really never worked with them either until I saw Dan using them on his rod, but I've seen them in magazine articles for years now.

Yellowtudor: I'm using polyester. If money were no object, what I would really use would be West System Epoxy, because it truly is a superior product, and it also comes in those neat cans with pumps on top for clean, accurate dispensing, However, it would drive up the build cost significantly, and with the amount of resin I have been using (I'm on my 4th gallon) I just couldn't justify putting that kind of money into the project. Plus, polyester is really fine for this type of work. Even the repairs we had done at the marina where I worked by fiberglass subcontractors was always done in polyester and mat. When I would ask them about using exotic products, they would laugh and say it really wasn't needed for what they were doing.

Way back when I started doing my '27, I went out and bought yards and yards of biaxial cloth and all these super hitech materials to use. But all the fiberglass guys I knew talked me out of using them, because the average person has better success using simple polyester resin, and mat. It is more user friendly, and mat tends to conform better to irregular shapes, like you encounter on a hot rod body.

Now, if I were building a high performance offshore racing boat, that would be a different matter, and as you said, water absorbsion should not be a problem, as it would on a boat. But even at that, most boats are built with polyester, and many of them stay in the water 24-7. My '27 was built with this same system over 17 years ago, and the plywood floor is as solid today as when new. I think the way I totally encapsulate the wood with resin and glass sealing it from the elements (maybe they should have sealed the '57 in Tulsa in fiberglass )

I've never heard of the sawdust method you are mentioning, but I know West System has some thickening powders for the same purposes. Like everything else, there are tons of different ways to do these things, I just kind of stick with what has worked so well for me in the past. But your info and input is really appreciated and I may have to give that a try sometime in the future.


Going to head over to the shop now and try to finish up the bottom so I can flip the body and do the interior some more.

Don

Wow Don I thought cleco fasteners might of been to high tech for you to explain....LOL, With you working in fiberglass so much lately. I did a 69 chevelle race car for a friend that was all new sheet metal on a tube chassis. We had about 300 cleco fasteners holding it together that it looked like a pin cushion LOL
Brad

You're right Don, I wasn't really thinking of the cost factor. When i'm doing my kayaks, it usually takes about 1.5 gallons including all of the filling and seam work to do a 16' to 18' kayak. I'm also trying for the most transparent finish I can get so that the wood grain shows through. You are going through a lot more resin. Epoxy would add up to $$$ with little real benefit.

BTW, I don't know who you use as a source, but I've been using US Composites and their prices seem to be pretty reasonable. They carry epoxies and esters along with all of the various types of fabrics.

Happy grinding!

Don....thanks for your answer regarding cleco fasteners, I've never seen them or anything else similar down here. Knowing now how and what they do, I can see their advantages over tack-welding or the like.
Thanks again.

johnboy

Yep, Yellowtudor, when I worked for West Marine we had a guy who built kayaks, and actually held classes where people could build their own while taking the course. He bought it in 55 gallon drums. There was one of the West System epoxies he liked for the same transparency reason you mention, to let the wood show through, and it wouldn't yellow.

Johnboy: Glad that helped. I asked Dan where he bought his, and he didn't remember, other than it was online. He said he got like 200 of them for something over a hundred bucks. He bought 1/8 and 3/16, and feels the 1/8 size is more than sufficient for most jobs, and the 3/16 are kind of overkill for tin work and stuff like that. I googled cleco, and a bunch of sources came up.

Don

Hey don, you can find real good deals on cleco`s at daytona, there is always a guy there that sells them in bulk, as well as by the piece, we used them all the time at the race shop, but we also used rivets to hold the chassis together, so we had holes already drilled.

Don---I need a favour from you. I understand that your son built his excellent roadster pickup from a 4 door sedan. Can you measure and let me know the horizontal length of one of his front doors please. On my roadster pickup which is made from a 2-door, the doors are 29" long, horizontally.---Brian

I think I've seen those guys there, selling stuff like that. Not much you can't find there, lots of vendors........my favorite section of the event.


Sure, Brian, I'm heading there in a little while, and when I get home tonight, I'll post the measurement for you. I understand the 4 doors have shorter front doors, to squeeze in another door per side, but I don't know off hand what that figure is. You'll know tonight.

Don

Brian: If yours are 29 inches, the fordor doors are not as wide. I measured them for you, and they are exactly 27 and 1/2 inches wide. Hope this helps.


I've been working on the body the last few days, and it is slow going. The thing I have been doing is fairing in the rear cutout section and the front of the trans tunnel. It is a matter of using body filler, sanding that smooth, then adding more to get it even smoother. Then I can turn the body back to the position it rides at, and start the actual body work.

The stuff I am doing now is not particularly exciting or photo worthy, so I have nothing to post picturewise, but I am happy to report my Son is really cooking on his '29. I left at 2 am last night, and he stayed till about 5. He seems to get more done when the temperature drops, and I can really understand that. Welcome to Summer in SW Florida.

He is just about finished with the back section of his cab, because last night he bent up the lower rear panel, rolled some beads into it, and welded it in place. I helped him bend up the rear driveshaft hoop, and he got that welded in too. Now he just has to bend up a forward hoop, and he can start forming the tin for the tunnel and floorboards.

For the first time last night I heard him actually say the car is getting close to being done. Up until now when I would say it was coming along well, he would say " I still have tons of work to do." But he is finally seeing the light at the end.

Here are a couple of pictures of what he got done last night. Sad part is, when the car is together, you see none of this tin work. But at least he knows its there.


Don