Thread: For Don Shilady

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I seem to remember a specific wire end and terminal on some alternators to encapsulate and insulate that alternator wire

Jerry, you're right Summit has them;
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-85684

Jerry and 36 Sedan, Thanks for the link. For $5 it seems like good insurance for that alternator wire. Rspears, I want further tests in summer heat before I turn off the initial fan. I think my dash thermometer reads high because it gets up to 220 F quickly without any sign of overflow in the catch can and an Infrared gun says the temp is lower than 220 F. 34-40 thanks for your continuing interest in my car. After seeing the interior parts of the 700R4 and the two rusted valves I understand the four combinations of the valves now which are key to the four forward gears. The other bee bee check valves are more complicated but they are some sort of plastic (Teflon?) and not subject to rust but the sliding valves have a close tolerance fit which is easily messed up with rust.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/Teen Rodder

Don,
I think if you do some research you'll find that a running fan tends to block air flow more than a freewheeling fan at highway speeds when the fan is not needed. This is the reason for thermostatic clutches on mechanical fans. Regarding actual temperatures measured by infrared gun, your engine will have temperatures varying over a significant range depending on what you shoot. For example, my dash gauge reads right at 180F running down the open road, sensed on the thermostat housing, but the ECU input is a second sending unit in the water jacket as it exits the head, and that point reads between 186F and 192F (ECU display is incremental, not by degree). If your dash display is reading significantly different than the infrared measure of the sending unit base I'd think about investing in a new sending unit to see if that fixes the discrepancy.

There will be a speed(mph) vs rotational RPM where a constant rpm fan(or propeller) will actually push the air flow backwards!!!!!!!!!!!might be a little difficult to grasp, but think about it a little(don't loose any sleep over it)

Jerry, The reason I am on this board is to get advice from experienced folks like you and actually this is more your thread than mine! I have ordered the little boot for the alternator connection and that should reduce one worry. Do you have any comments about the Meziere electric pump? Relatively few folks run them on the street but the Meziere engineer says it should be good for about 50,000 miles and I am carrying a spare set of brushes. Rodger, I appreciate what you say and I would like to recover some amps to the battery after starting while the engine warms up but I will have to figure out the wiring Phil put in for the fans. The easiest modification is to simply put a manual on-off switch on the first fan and then remember to turn it on when the temp reaches 180 F or above. Assuming I don't forget to turn on the first fan a break in the line to that fan is my simple way to avoid adding another thermostat and relay. Until I can figure this out I will run it the way it is now. I have enough history in making changes that make things worse to be cautious in further modifications even though I would like to turn off the first fan at highway speed and before the engine reaches 180 F.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/Teen Rodder

Jerry thanks for the useful comments. You and Rodger remind me that I would like to recover some of the starter amps to the battery while the engine warms up but I will have to study Phil's relay circuit. One easy way might be to simply put a switch into the power to the first fan. There is a guy near me who recently moved East from California with an absolutely beautiful 1926 Ford coupe with a 283 SBC and an electric fan which he switches off when running on the road and then turns on manually when in traffic. His setup is simpler than mine but he told me that his fan runs down his battery when it is on all the time. Again there are many variables to consider but maybe the simplest idea is for me to break the line to the first fan with a switch. I will have to check and see if that would turn off both fans or just one. This is something to consider but requires further study to understand the circuits Phil put in there along with several relays.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/Teen Rodder

IMHO, the safest way to operate the fans is through a thermostat. If you feel you need more control, you can add a bypass switch to operate the fans manually at any time without the thermostat. Fans wired to a manual switch only is asking for trouble when you forget to turn them on and are not paying attention to the gauges.

If you think you have to have one fan run when the engine is on, wire that fan relay to the accessory part of the ignition switch, this way the fan does not operate with the starter and allows for easier starting (more amps to the starter). The down side to this is the fan operates in the accessory position when you’re listening to the radio with the motor off.

I have dual fans wired through a thermostat with a manual bypass switch that kicks the fans on whenever I like, and when I shut the motor off if the thermostat is calling for cooling the fans will continue to operate for an additional 20-30 seconds before shutting off.

I am totally against the use of electric water pumps unless its on a drag car where you need to circulate the coolant for cooling while between runs-----------

Use a oem type water pump run at the rate the factories built the engine with---do not use underdrive pullies at all, if anything overdriving is a better way to go, but a proper flow rate cooling systen based on the engines rpm is necessary-------

Jerry, I totally agree with you and you are the fourth "Pro" to tell me that. I certainly wanted a belt driven water pump but the transmission shop insisted on the electric water pump against my wishes and would not guarantee the trans unless I improved the cooling system. The Zip set up was on the ragged edge of overheating with the full hood in December so it was questionable how it would behave in July. This was very frustrating to me but all I can say is that it does run cool now and I will try it for a while. I still have the Zip setup and could go back to it.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/Teen Rodder

Don,
I'll second the statement about manual switches on cooling fans being a bad idea. It is sooooo easy to overlook a temp gauge until it it pegging out, especially if you're coming into a traffic situation where you need it. I'm using a SPAL programmable controller on my SPAL fan, along with a SPAL temperature sensor input. The beauty is that you can adjust the On & Off set points (low speed/high speed on mine) independently over the full range of the temperature sensor.

I also agree with Jerry that IMO an electric pump is generally not a good idea for the street. Now if you had a rear mounted radiator and needed more system flow head than an OEM provides you might need one, but I prefer the OEM style pumps.

If your new friend is telling you that his fan runs down his battery he needs to install a higher capacity alternator. My 100amp alternator keeps the system voltage at about 13.5V under all conditions.

With that I'll back away and let you enjoy figuring out what works best for you & your car. Have fun!!

Well as rspears notes the car is set up now with the electric water pump which was installed pretty much against my wishes and I will live with it until something breaks. I only wanted to get my car back from the transmission shop which had it from February till May. First they did try to repair my rusted 700R4 with various special fluid soaks, then they took it apart and cleaned it, put it back but then would not give any guarantee unless I replaced it entirely AND THEN the shop would not guarantee the new transmission from Monster unless I installed a cooling system that would not endanger the new trans! Thus I just wanted to get my car back but I am glad to have the improved Monster 700R4. Then over the summer I planned to use my summer salary for a professional interior but our home heating/cooling system went bad so I just took the summer check and gave it to the air conditioning man! As a result of working over the summer and having my car in the shop all Spring I only now got around to calibrating my speedometer. The speedometer is part of the instrument set I got from TPI-Tech about six years ago but they are now out of business, although I still have the instruction sheet. Anyway the speedometer was reading an outrageous factor of 2x high. I got some help from my son who is more confident with digital gadgets and we finally found a measured mile on Route 301 just south of Bowling Green VA which is about 25 miles north of my home. Although I live within 200 yards of I-95 with 0.1 mile marks, I-95 is not a place where you can pull over and pause to mess with a digital speedometer! The weather was great and we appreciated the Lexan windscreens running along during a period of very little traffic. We set the speedometer on the measured mile and had lunch in "downtown Bowling Green" near the only traffic light. Now with an accurate speedometer/odometer I can check the mpg of my A roadster which was set up with a low rpm cam and a 3.55 rear, depending on the 700R4 low gear for acceleration and I do have a noticeable chirp in the shift from low to second so I hope for a good compromise of low gear performance in a light car and maybe 20 mpg(?) due to the 3.55 rear and the 700R4 OD. Watch this space for a report on the mpg. Compared to my wife's big cushy 2008 Impala, the A roadster rides a little rough and the short wheelbase with the Vega steering requires almost total attention on the road. I am sure my wife will not like the primitive riding conditions but it was a real time machine experience for me! Due to my 2" chopped top frame I got one of those prisms to look up for the light and it works.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

That's good news Don! PROGRESS!!! I hope you can enjoy the remainder of the season and get some cruising in.

Vega Box Review?

My steering already has a small amount of slack in it and it has been tightened on the adjustment quite a bit so I am looking at replacing it. The prices for Vega Steering boxes range from $200 to $950 and Flaming River has not always had good reviews. My Vega Box was bought from Flaming River when I assumed the quality was good but now I wonder. Part of the problem is that I originally installed the drag link upside down and had to reverse it, thereby probably messing up the tapered spline. So can my problem be solved with a new $200 Vega box and a new $50 drag link or do I need a higher quality steering box and what make is recommended? Also what is this business where some vendors say the Vega Box is only good for vehicles under 2000 pounds while others say for under 2500 pounds?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don, have you discussed these problems with Flaming River? And yes, the "intended" weight of the vehicle needs to be discussed when selecting a steering box. There is a load rating.