Welcome to Club Hot Rod!  The premier site for everything to do with Hot Rod, Customs, Low Riders, Rat Rods, and more. 

  •  » Members from all over the US and the world!
  •  » Help from all over the world for your questions
  •  » Build logs for you and all members
  •  » Blogs
  •  » Image Gallery
  •  » Many thousands of members and hundreds of thousands of posts! 

YES! I want to register an account for free right now!  p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show

 
Like Tree21Likes

Thread: tin-man has some questions, it begins.....
          
   
   

Reply To Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 120
  1. #1
    tin-man's Avatar
    tin-man is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sun City West
    Car Year, Make, Model: 65 Cobra, 89 Bentley Turbo R, Dodge SU
    Posts
    117

    tin-man has some questions, it begins.....

     



    Can anyone direct me to previous posts that discussed the merits of the factory five 1933 hot rod replicas or 33 roadsters in general. What concerns me based on pictures I have seen on various for sale sites is the front end always seems really low to the ground and I am guessing this would present speed bump or inclined driveway issues without modifications to overall height of front end. Yep, pretty obvious observation, but I would like to review any discussions on this subject and to understand how adjustments could be made. BTW, if I misspeak or misstate some mechanical or technical terms I would appreciate some slack, I will learn.

    Cheers, tin-man
    Last edited by tin-man; 02-19-2012 at 08:16 PM.

  2. #2
    34_40's Avatar
    34_40 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Bedford
    Car Year, Make, Model: 34 Ford 3W Coupe Replica
    Posts
    14,606

    We did have a couple members discussing these. And I know of at least one build. Probably done about now...
    A search (above right) revealed this = Factory Five kits try it out.

  3. #3
    IC2
    IC2 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UPSTATE New York
    Posts
    4,336

    I think this is the Factory Five that Mike has mentioned. Arrowhead is the site name for the builder and does show up here occasionally. His car is done, but it is on tour with the World of Wheels. I have seen the car from the very first boxes that arrived at his home right up to the finished car in my driveway - and it is beyond great:

    Arrowhead's Hot Rod Site

    This was at our monthly cruise in -
    s car.jpg
    Dave W
    I am now gone from this forum for now - finally have pulled the plug

  4. #4
    tin-man's Avatar
    tin-man is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sun City West
    Car Year, Make, Model: 65 Cobra, 89 Bentley Turbo R, Dodge SU
    Posts
    117

    Quote Originally Posted by IC2 View Post
    I think this is the Factory Five that Mike has mentioned. Arrowhead is the site name for the builder and does show up here occasionally. His car is done, but it is on tour with the World of Wheels. I have seen the car from the very first boxes that arrived at his home right up to the finished car in my driveway - and it is beyond great:

    Arrowhead's Hot Rod Site

    This was at our monthly cruise in -
    Attachment 53263

    Thanks for the search data 34_40 and what a build story, fantastic, what perseverance, my compliments to Arrowheads skills and attention to detail that enabled him to create a such a fine piece of workmanship. That said, I'm guessing by the looks of this picture the distance from the bottom of the grill to the floor is about 6 inches. Can anyone confirm this or let me know where I can look to get this detail? Cheers, tin-man

  5. #5
    rspears's Avatar
    rspears is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Gardner, KS
    Car Year, Make, Model: '33 HiBoy Coupe, '32 HiBoy Roadster
    Posts
    10,989

    John,
    The FF33 has a space frame with a custom designed IFS (independent front suspension) that is purpose built for road course performance - the project engineer wanted to out perform the FF Cobra on the road course, and he accomplished that goal. You are not going to be able to adjust the front ride height much without fouling up the suspension geometry, and unless you also raise the back you'd end up with a reverse rake which would look kind of silly. The only way you could easily accomplish raising the car would be with tire size, and again you'd have to be very careful or you'd end up with a "look" that just doesn't work, like a ghetto cruiser on 30's "...just 'cause I can, man." IMO, with the FF33 you either like everything about it or you pass. I looked hard at the FF33 when I was getting started in my decision process, and it did not work for me. I'm a bit more of a traditionalist relative to "the look", and there were just too many liberties taken with the body design for me. The parting line on the top, the "I-beam" look to the frame covers, the 12" "step over" to get in (and about a dozen other features) - all in all it simply screamed "KIT CAR" to me. Unlike the FF Cobra which looks like an original '66/'67 Shelby Cobra, the FF33 is a uniquely styled body with a stylized '33 grille, and there's no question what it is - a Factory Five 33 Hot Rod, and a true Kit Car where one gets about fifty boxes with virtually every part needed to complete the car, just add engine, tranny, wheels/tires and paint. No one will ever look at a FF33 and say, "Glass or Steel?", or "What year is it?". They have not been around long enough to establish a market, but I don't believe you'll ever see one cross the Barret Jackson stage drawing six figures, or even upper five's. Just my $0.02 on them.

    If you want to see the "traditional" build, check out this guys's blog - http://www.project33.com/start.cfm
    Last edited by rspears; 02-20-2012 at 05:57 AM.
    Roger
    Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.

  6. #6
    34_40's Avatar
    34_40 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Bedford
    Car Year, Make, Model: 34 Ford 3W Coupe Replica
    Posts
    14,606

    Yes, IC2, that's the one I was thinking about. Thanks!

  7. #7
    Bob Parmenter's Avatar
    Bob Parmenter is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Salado
    Car Year, Make, Model: 32, 40 Fords,
    Posts
    10,844

    I'm no help on the FF33 in particular because my general feeling about them mirrors Roger's comments, neither good nor bad, just a matter of taste. But I'd like to comment on lowered cars, rods in particular, and "the look".

    This is related to the other comments in your intro post. Something about this genre of cars tipped your bottle, think about what that/those thing(s) were. If you learn about the rod world, like the people you meet, and want to "fit in" it's because you're somehow sympathetic to the "culture". I don't get too wrapped up in the culture thing, that's more for the rockabilly crowd, but we "mainstream" rodders actually have one too, just not as in your face as the folks who get into an almost costume mode (well, unless you think of "hawaiian" shirts as costumes.

    While we don't have formal rules for what a rod looks like, or how it should be built, we do have understoood customs or conventions. The FF33 is intended to be outside those customs, again, neither good nor bad, just is. But they wouldn't fit in with the normal rod crowd, they're just too "sports carish" if I may try to classify it somehow.

    Ride height. That's a basic custom of hot rods and street rods, with lower being a convention since about the mid to late '70s. Earlier styles were lower than their stock bretheren, but not as low as the later versions. Some get real carried away with it and do the airbag thing so that they can "lay frame" when parked (almost/actually no ground clearance), yet still be able to raise it up for driving. These involve compromises that some find objectionable, others feel it's worth the trade off. Again, a live and learn thing. You mentioned that the car above looked like about 6 inch clearance. With most rods that would be somewhat generous, at least for the lowest point on the undercarriage. 4-5 inches is very common. Just for fun I'll post a pic of the lowest clearance car I had some 20 years or so ago................1 5/8" at the bottom of the grille.

    If you're going to participate and not have what's sometimes referred to as a "nose bleed car", you'll need to be aware of your environment. A car with 4-5", good scrub angle, and relatively safe to drive only needs what I would term modest attention to potential hazards. Most common are road hazards like pot holes and man hole covers that are elevated for whatever reason. Yes, speed bumps can be a PITA, as can be some driveway approaches if the ramp is steeper. You learn to be aware of those things, or get a nasty noise to remind you that you should be more aware. You can usually take drive ramps at an angle to increase clearance effects. You creep over speed bumps, or search for alternate paths around them, and so on. Leave the inattentive driving habits to the Honda drivers.

    And if road clearance is really important and you still want a more unique vehicle, do a data search for DONK (if the commie masters will allow it).
    Attached Images
    Last edited by Bob Parmenter; 02-20-2012 at 06:40 AM.
    rspears and lamin8r like this.
    Your Uncle Bob, Senior Geezer Curmudgeon

    It's much easier to promise someone a "free" ride on the wagon than to urge them to pull it.

    Luck occurs when preparation and opportunity converge.

  8. #8
    rspears's Avatar
    rspears is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Gardner, KS
    Car Year, Make, Model: '33 HiBoy Coupe, '32 HiBoy Roadster
    Posts
    10,989

    DONK - "...'cause I can, man, 'cause I can."

    donk.jpg
    Roger
    Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.

  9. #9
    tin-man's Avatar
    tin-man is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sun City West
    Car Year, Make, Model: 65 Cobra, 89 Bentley Turbo R, Dodge SU
    Posts
    117

    DONK oh my, never again........

     



    Bob, after visiting DONK I can fully understand why the Sphincter Police here in China censure some web sites, yuck, what an experience. BTW we called em' hammers when I was decidedly younger and considerably more nasty. That said, thank you for the road clearance education. My question was posed out of practicality regarding potential damage that could be caused by the low ground clearance. In any event the roadster is on my list for consideration as are the 32/33 3 window high boy rods. Just so you know my druthers are leaning towards the 32 -33 era Fords. So here is a question that puzzles me and was considered as moving to the dark side on the Club Cobra Forum, why would somebody ever even consider putting a Chevy engine in a Ford?.....and then the fight began.

    Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

  10. #10
    Bug
    Bug is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Manteca
    Posts
    304

    Hay John,

    Chevys are easier and cheaper to work on. You can build a Chevy engine for half of what it costs to build a Ford and have the same power (or more).

    Don't worry about going over to the dark side. Over here on CHR I think that we are all on the dark side.
    Bug
    "I may be paranoid but that doesn’t mean they are not watching me"

  11. #11
    tin-man's Avatar
    tin-man is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sun City West
    Car Year, Make, Model: 65 Cobra, 89 Bentley Turbo R, Dodge SU
    Posts
    117

    Quote Originally Posted by Bug View Post
    Hay John,

    Chevys are easier and cheaper to work on. You can build a Chevy engine for half of what it costs to build a Ford and have the same power (or more).

    Don't worry about going over to the dark side. Over here on CHR I think that we are all on the dark side.
    Hi Bug, I recognise your signature from CC, really cool, err, read your comment and here's one back, does that mean hot rod builders would put a Ford engine in a 57 Chevy classic? Yep, this has got to be the right place OK, seems I just read..... ''cause I can, man, 'cause I can." Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

  12. #12
    tin-man's Avatar
    tin-man is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sun City West
    Car Year, Make, Model: 65 Cobra, 89 Bentley Turbo R, Dodge SU
    Posts
    117

    Good scrub angle, this sinner needs some understanding on this term. Cheers, tin-man.

  13. #13
    34_40's Avatar
    34_40 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Bedford
    Car Year, Make, Model: 34 Ford 3W Coupe Replica
    Posts
    14,606

    Quote Originally Posted by Bug View Post
    Hay John,

    Chevys are easier and cheaper to work on. You can build a Chevy engine for half of what it costs to build a Ford and have the same power (or more).

    Don't worry about going over to the dark side. Over here on CHR I think that we are all on the dark side.
    Well, a half truth. The chevy will be cheaper for certain, easier can be a relative term,IMHO!

    And we are not all on the dark side. Some exercise maturity and patience and are tolerant of the misguided!
    rspears likes this.

  14. #14
    rspears's Avatar
    rspears is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Gardner, KS
    Car Year, Make, Model: '33 HiBoy Coupe, '32 HiBoy Roadster
    Posts
    10,989

    Quote Originally Posted by 34_40 View Post
    Well, a half truth. The chevy will be cheaper for certain, easier can be a relative term,IMHO!

    And we are not all on the dark side. Some exercise maturity and patience and are tolerant of the misguided!


    Quote Originally Posted by tin-man View Post
    Good scrub angle, this sinner needs some understanding on this term. Cheers, tin-man.
    John, Google "scrub angle" or "scrub radius" and you'll find an abundance of discussion about the measurement of the difference at the ground between the line through the kingpin, a-arm mount points or strut centerline (depending on your suspension type) and the center of the tire contact patch, and how that affects handling.
    Roger
    Enjoy the little things in life, and you may look back one day and realize that they were really the BIG things.

  15. #15
    Bob Parmenter's Avatar
    Bob Parmenter is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Salado
    Car Year, Make, Model: 32, 40 Fords,
    Posts
    10,844

    My error on the scrub angle deal, should have said scrub line. While Roger is correct for the variations he noted, the scrub line basically involves an imaginary line from the bottom of a deflated tire/wheel to other inflated tires. No portion of the vehicle should be at or below that line so as to come in contact with the pavement to cause loss of control (and of course the additional damage).

    As for the Chevy engine thing, it's been beat to death even moreso in rods than in the Cobra world. I'll put more of a historic twist on the story to better frame the argument. If you were a rodder in the early '50s when the flathead Ford V8 was still reigning supreme (though fading a little to the newly minted overhead engines from Olds, Caddy, and Mopar) and you and your bench racing buddies sat down to design the "ideal" engine you'd stipulate things like; compact outer dimensions that would allow fitment in most of the more popular bodies (generally pre-war Ford) without being forced to do major surgery to frame, firewall, rad placement, hoods, etc. Also you'd put the sump at the rear as that would clear the steering and front crossmember configurations on a majority of cars preferred by rodders. You'd make it with the starter on the right side rather than conflicting with the steering box. You'd make it lighter than the flathead because less weight is like free horsepower. And you'd make it so it would produce more horsepower with modest (read lower cost) upgrades. And you'd make it in huge relative numbers so it was, again, cheap and readily available. In other words you'd build the small block Chev. I doubt that Ed Cole and his team of engineers specifically targeted the hot rod community in their design parameters (other than maybe the design elements that supported "easy" horsepower increases).........but for whatever reason it worked that way. It was like a revelation to the rodders of the time. A stock wrecking yard pull out SBC had as much or more horsepower than a built flathead..............and once the yards started getting wrecks, cheaper (and lighter). The hot rod aftermarket jumped on them right away and discovered how readily they responded to traditional hot rod power tweaks, and opened the door to new ones. The SBC grabbed a foothold.

    Meanwhile the OHV engine that Ford designed around the same time, the Y block, wasn't nearly as hot rodder friendly, and earned the scorn of all but the most blue oval loyal. It took Ford another 7 or so years to come up with their own small block which is a very good engine. But in standard wrecking yard take out form in many hot rod engine compartments it required modifications to accomodate additional length due to a water pump longer than the Chev, and often, a change in oil pump pickup and sump relocation. There's more to the story, but that should give you an idea. Momentum was on the side of the SBC, just as it had been on the flathead Ford before it. The true blue Ford guys have all manner of rejoinders to this, but they all involve jumping through extra hoops. Which is fine if you don't mind being stubborn, pig headed, and irrational.

    In the Cobra replica world there's an opposite convention. Since none of the early advantages of the SBC apply, there's no historical rationalisation, nor any physical restrictions that support NOT using the Ford engine, big or small block. And since it's replicating an historical, iconic car, again the zeitgeist demands a Ford. Put a Chev engine in and it kills the market value (except in Europe for some strange reasion). Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' with it, ...................watch for incoming.
    Last edited by Bob Parmenter; 02-21-2012 at 06:15 AM.
    rspears likes this.
    Your Uncle Bob, Senior Geezer Curmudgeon

    It's much easier to promise someone a "free" ride on the wagon than to urge them to pull it.

    Luck occurs when preparation and opportunity converge.

Reply To Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Links monetized by VigLink