Thread: gun control

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I am sorry for the loss of a friend Dave. Had I known I would not have posted this. The point of the video is that if they outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns, and the honest people will all be sitting ducks. I was 18 years old in 1979 when my brother in law was gunned down, 4 shots to the back with a .357 magnum. Even as I watched him take his last breath, still to this very day I never blamed the gun, just the killer that shot him. Ironicly enough, the guy who shot him gets out of prison this year. Sorry again if this offended anyone.

Thought exercise: Is an intruder lying dead on your front porch with a baseball bat sized crush in his skull any less dead than the one with a 9mm slug from your Glock 17 in his heart? Maybe it's time to launch a campaign against the NBBA (National Baseball Bat Association).

Old phrases become old phrases for a reason, for example: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

A lot of well intentioned people can make impassioned pleas for their ideas, and often those ideas will work...................to a point. Recognizing where that point is is the challenge. Blanket notions like "give peace a chance" are fine if you're dealing with rational people on the other side of the equation. But if they're not rational, how prepared are you to up the ante for self preservation sake? Are you a survivor or are you satisfied to be food for the predator?

Some of you, probably from more rural areas, remember a time, be it yours or one generation earlier, when kids would carry a rifle to and from school. Most often they were called squirrel rifles/guns. Not real common, but not uncommon either. Nobody worried about mass murder in the gymnasium because they had faith in the rational behavior of the gun possessor. Today a kid can't even take a nail file to school, it's controlled under a philosophy of "Zero tolerance". If you think about it that's sort of an odd oxymoronic statement. We've become intolerant of inanimate objects, while becoming more tolerant of bad behavior. Responsibility has been defined down so that irresponsibility is to be tolerated because "it's not their fault". Some of us would argue it's that supposedly "growing everyday" crowd who are most in favor of gun control who are the leading proponents of ever decreasing anti-social behavior control. They're often the same people who demonize portions of our society as "greedy". They indoctrinate the comparatively lower socio-economic level folks with the notion that the “more successful” people don't really "earn" what they've got. They will often claim the so called “wealthy” took it away from the “less fortunate”. In order to be fair it's necessary to "level the playing field". In other words take (rather than earn) from one to give to another. Of course, unintentionally I'm sure, what that fosters is the consequence that those who receive the "freebie" subliminally develop the attitude that they can take whatever they want from whomever they believe has it and didn't earn it. In their mind they're just "taking back" or “leveling the playing field”.

On the one hand the rapidly increasing sales of guns might be distressing. I would hope that all of those "newbies" take the time to join the NRA, take classes in proper gun handling, and never have to shoot at anything more menacing than a paper silhouette. But what this trend is is really another poll, much like an election. People are expressing a vision that our constitution has been turned upside down. It was originally written to protect the citizens from oppressive government with phrase that begin with ”Congress shall make no law......". With each passing year it's clear that too many of us have let the politicians turn that around. We get legislation like the so called "McCain-Feingold" act that restricts political free speech. Limbaugh was brought up earlier as if he's a threat. Yet, even as big a megaphone as he has, he's still only a private citizen with no ability to force his views on anyone by use, or misuse, of the law. If you don't like what he says turn the dial. But those that rail against him don't seem to have any problem with a campaign designed to discredit and shut those dissenting opinions down being run FROM THE WHITE HOUSE! Another example, Congress votes one week to use punitive taxes to take back bonus money they had just approved a week or two prior. They use some weasel words to try to avoid violating the ‘No bills of attainder” clause in the Constitution, but their intent is all too evident. Target individual citizens for political gain. I’ve gone on in the past about the ever increasing erosion of private property rights so won't keep whizzing into the wind here. It's just that those who have been legal gun owners, and those who recently have been joining their ranks, are voting by their purchases. This is a voting poll that can't be manipulated by favored groups like ACORN who promote voter fraud, or by manipulative politicians who gerrymander districts to manipulate voting blocs or who diddle with the census for the same purposes. Well, yet anyway.

well said bob,

agreed...we all used to carry guns to school...not hidden...but clearly displayed in rear window gun racks...yes i'm a back woods country boy...but not once was a gun ever pull out of one of those trucks in anger or pointed at another human being...i have carried a gun ever since and still have never pull one in anger...were i come from you have a problem with someone you give or take a ass whipping and go home...but i will always be an armed citizen and not an innocent victim...

Why I Carry a Gun



My old grandpa said to me, "Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass whoopin'."







I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being killed.





I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.





I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.





I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.





I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.





I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.





I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.





I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I die and go to Heaven, I want to be a cowboy.





I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.





I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.





I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.





"Police Protection" is an oxymoron.. Free citizens must protect themselves.





Police do not protect you from crime; they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.





Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.


Remember the average response time to a 911 call is over 4 minutes.



The average response time of a 357 magnum is 1400 FPS

OK, gotta toss my 2 cents in....

When I was fresh out of college (1969), my best friend was murdered by a person with a handgun. To my best recollection, not a single person blamed the gun or made some statement regarding "if only we could have banned guns." My friend was murdered by a person that broke down the door and shot him.

Would gun control have saved his life....absolutely not...he was murdered by a sheriff's deputy who had caught my friend with the deputies ex wife. The deputy was carrying his "legal" handgun that every anti-gunner believed that he should have.

When I was in Taiwan, the penalty for possession of a firearm was death by a firing squad. People frequently told me that they were scared to death of criminals with knives....they asked me "what is your opinion regarding knife control?" Hmmm...let's ban knives....or
baseball bats like in Bob's story.

Our problem is not inanimate objects, our problem is responsibility. America has evolved to where no person is required to be responsible for their actions. Government penalizes the responsible, law-abiding citizens so that the reckless, deranged, and criminals "have their rights" protected. Gee thanks, that's protection that I need!

Regardless of what the good-intended say, today is not much different than it was in 1776. People have the desire and the right to be safe. Since the government cannot protect everyone at all times, we have the right to protect ourselves using available means that are at least equal to those of our assailants.....dont give me a pepper spray device to ward off an attacker armed with a semi-automatic handgun.....

mike in tucson

here ya go folks

http://www.infowars.com/house-passes...-service-bill/ madatory volunteerism? oxymoronic or is it just me.

http://www.infowars.com/mandatory-se...bill-lives-on/

Well guess I'll add my two cents since this thread appears to have all of the markings of a soon to be closed thread.

2nd Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear arms. It does not imply any rights to use those guns in an uncivil and illegal manner. That being said, I have mine, cleaned and ready in the event that a need arises, however in the mean time where they are is where they will stay. Their here for my protection and my enjoyment which ever is more important at the moment. Mine are all quite old and never registered with no plans to do so in the future. So far it hasn't mattered, don't expect it will. I have a carry permit (relatively easy to get here) and fortunately I have always lived and worked in areas were carrying a gun was not a necessity. Plus I try to avoid travels to such areas.

I prefer open carry laws to concealed carry laws. Prefer to know what others are carrying and to let them know what I am doing as well. Can resolve issues before they start.

For those of you who have them, good for you. For those of you who don't want them, good for you. It's a personal choice, and hopefully will remain so.

Originally Posted by mopar34

Well guess I'll add my two cents since this thread appears to have all of the markings of a soon to be closed thread.

2nd Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear arms. It does not imply any rights to use those guns in an uncivil and illegal manner. That being said, I have mine, cleaned and ready in the event that a need arises, however in the mean time where they are is where they will stay. Their here for my protection and my enjoyment which ever is more important at the moment. Mine are all quite old and never registered with no plans to do so in the future. So far it hasn't mattered, don't expect it will. I have a carry permit (relatively easy to get here) and fortunately I have always lived and worked in areas were carrying a gun was not a necessity. Plus I try to avoid travels to such areas.

I prefer open carry laws to concealed carry laws. Prefer to know what others are carrying and to let them know what I am doing as well. Can resolve issues before they start.

For those of you who have them, good for you. For those of you who don't want them, good for you. It's a personal choice, and hopefully will remain so.

Well said, well said.

The United States Constitution and 44 States have Constitutional provisions enumerating an individual right to “keep and bear arms”. The U.S. Constitution, Amendment II (also known as the Second Amendment) states:

“A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

For years there has been great debate on the intent of the second Amendment as it relates to an “individuals” right to keep and bear arms. The overwhelming majority of America’s citizens believe this right extends to all people – as evidenced by the 44 states that endorse gun ownership by private citizens. These states and the federal government do have the ability to restrict gun ownership to law abiding citizens who have not been convicted of a felony

While it is truly tragic when a person is murdered or even accidentally killed at the hand of another, the weapon used in the commission of such a heinous act is an inanimate object and incapable of any action (good or bad) unless placed in the hands of a human being.

For a variety of different reasons, gun ownership and gun control are very emotional issues. Facts help to dispel rumors and sometimes quell the emotions associated with controversial issues.

1. Over the last two decades, many "gun control" laws have been eliminated or made less restrictive at the federal, state, and local levels. Numbers of privately-owned guns and Right-to-Carry states have risen to all-time highs. Every step of the way, "gun control" groups predicted violent crime would increase. Instead, violent crime decreased dramatically.

2. The Brady Act’s handgun waiting period expired in 1998, in favor of the NRA-supported National Instant Check System. Some states have since eliminated waiting periods. The federal "assault weapon" ban expired in 2004. Since 1987, 30 states have eliminated prohibitory or restrictive carry laws, in favor of Right-to-Carry (RTC) laws; there are now 40 RTC states. All states have hunter protection laws, 46 have range protection laws, 47 prohibit local jurisdictions from imposing gun laws more restrictive than state law, 44 protect the right to arms in their constitutions, and Congress and 33 states have prohibited frivolous lawsuits against the firearm industry. See www.nraila.org/Issues/

3. The following references site studies by or for Congress, the Congressional Research Service, the Library of Congress, the National Institute of Justice, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found no evidence that "gun control" reduces crime.

Roth, Koper, et al., Impact Evaluation of the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994, March 13, 1997, www.urban.org/url.cfm?ID=406797;
Reedy and Koper, "Impact of handgun types on gun assault outcomes: a comparison of gun assaults involving semiautomatic pistols and revolvers," Injury Prevention 2003, http://ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/9/2/151; Koper et al.,

Report to the National Institute of Justice, An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003, June 2004, http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/jl..._aw_final.pdf;

Wm. J. Krouse, Congressional Research Service Report for Congress, "Semiautomatic Assault Weapons Ban," Dec. 16, 2004;

Library of Congress, Report for Congress: Firearms Regulations in Various Foreign Countries, May 1998, LL98-3, 97-2010; Task Force on Community Preventive Service, "First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws," Morbidity and Mortaility Weekly Report, Oct. 3, 2003, www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm;

National Research Council, "Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review," National Academies Press, 2005 , http://books.nap.edu/books/0309091241/html/index.html.

4. According to the BATFE, Annual Firearm Manufacturers and Export Reports The number of new guns rises by about 4.5 million every year. There are 250+ million privately-owned firearms in the United States.

5. Since 1991, the nation’s total violent crime rate is down 38 percent. (Murder is down 43 percent; rape, 29 percent; robbery, 46 percent; and aggravated assault, 35 percent.) Violent crime dropped every year from 1991-2004, to a 30-year low; increased slightly in 2005 and 2006; and decreased to nearly the 2004 level in 2007. Every year since 2002, the violent crime rate has been lower than anytime since 1974. Every year since 1999, the murder rate has been lower than anytime since 1966. States with RTC laws, compared to the rest of the country, have lower violent crime rates on average: total violent crime by 24 percent, murder, 28 percent; robbery, 50 percent; and aggravated assault, 11 percent. See. FBI http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_04.html Bureau of Justice Statistics, http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/. RTC comparison based on data in the FBI table.

While Mr. Severson is certainly entitled to his opinion – he has revealed no factual information. I also doubt that his manner of delivery has done little to endear anyone. We all have our own stories and I would doubt that there are few on this site that have not experienced the loss of loved ones or perhaps experienced tragedy (as well stated in above posts). Such give us cause to grieve and vent. I am often touched when members encourage one another and when we send “cyber regards/prayers/love and concern” to those who share their losses.

Regards All,
Glenn

I'm not going to argue.... It does no good. I could give a hoot less if I'm the only one not carrying a dang gun. Guns are for killing, nobody I want to kill. When we were kids, things were different, laws were different or non existent. Cars have changed, way more people on the planet now, and way more guns, too. Do we just sit by and arm ourselves, and watch everyone else arm themselves, then wait for the wacko's to start shooting or what???? People do not behave the same as they did at the time the constitution was written. Morals and values are different. Many now feel killing is justified if they have been disrespected!!!!! When you defend your right to carry a gun, you are also defending the right of the wacko's and fringe elements to carry theirs...but it's ok cuz you won't shoot first....

No facts Mr. Sexton? You're right, didn't know we were going by points. Just personal observations of life as I've lived it. The fact is, every day people are killed with handguns and long guns. Is it necessary, is it right, does it have to continue???? Maybe in your world, but not in mine.

I still believe in sayings like give peace a chance. My guns stay locked up in the gun locker at Grandpa's. I also run E-85 in most of my cars. No, it won't change the world, but it feels right to me. I'm not for banning all guns....Just for taking a course of action that could somehow ensure that those carrying them are intelligent and stable enough to make life and death decisions..... I still like to go target shooting with the guys, but when I'm done the guns are cleaned, put away, and locked up....

Oh, and Uncle Bob I haven't killed anyone with the Louisville slugger. Just broke one arm and detained the individual until the police came to get him. IMO that's a bit better then shooting him just because he was trying to steal a few things....

Shouldn't our gun laws be at least as strong as our driving laws???? Gun training is still voluntary--would it really be an infringement on someone's blessed constitutional right to make training and certification mandatory????

Please, don't make me out to be a member of some fringe element that wants to see all guns cut up and recycled as Honda Civics. From my own purchases years ago, and from inheritance I have some very, very fine guns. Some of them of such quality that they are more an object of art then then they are a weapon.. What I would like is to know that the people carrying guns realize and accept the responsibility of carrying and using a lethal weapon.....

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

......No, it won't change the world,
........... but it feels right to me.............. I'm not for banning all guns....Just for taking a course of action that could somehow ensure that those carrying them are intelligent and stable enough to make life and death decisions..........

Dave, I agree with you about some gun owners needing more and better training. I also agree that it is your right to do something that feels right to YOU.......You have had some things happen in your life that have formed your opinions.

I am extremely PRO gun and PRO second amendment. The problem I have (and this dosent necessarily apply to you) is when people try to force their feel right/feel good ideas on me.......If people feel better not carrying or by locking up their weapons, that just fine with me. But I dont want them forcing me to do the same.

There are MORE then enough good laws on the books to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldnt own one.....lets start enforcing them!!

I would vote for mandatory gun safety training in schools that was orchestrated by the NRA.....would significantly help the younger crowd understand the danger.

mike in tucson

Violence is not going away, even if all the guns in the world went away! We would just figure out another way to kill, been doing it since the begining of man!! David killed goliath with a rock. Ill give up mine when i know there is not another left on the planet!!

I have no problem taking it toe to toe, ive duked it out with the best of them, but im not gonna be caught with a knife in a gun fight. Im sad that`s the way the world has to be, but until we find a better way im keeping my firearms.

Attributed to the Marine Corps as the "rules of a gun fight"

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun
10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
12. Have a plan.
13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.
15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
16. Don't drop your guard.
17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.
19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4" or a "5"

We all enjoy what is sometimes referred to as a bad boy sport. Hot rods were seen as outlaws. I don't enjoy that image thrown at me. I try to prove otherwise. I have a CWP, but most of the time I don't carry. But I like the right to do so when I want to. I don't need to, but at times I like to go out and shoot at some tin cans. I can do it legally because I have tried to follow the rules set up by the state I live in. We all have opinions, at least we can respect each others.